Vinyl lovers I must be crazy

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. As a kid I had a general electric tape recorder and I would record songs off of a clock radio onto cheap drugstore cassette tapes. The quality must surely have been horrendous, but to me it was magical. I occasionally get the same joy out of my current stereo system (upper mid-fi and hi-fi) but cannot confidently say the experience is better than I had listening to that old tape recorder. When I'm older I think I will have fond memories of my current system and the time I spend with my kids listening to vinyl and digital media sources.

I gave up on vinyl in 1985 and returned a few years back. To me it's just another format, much like SACD or DVD-A. No format is better than the other they are just different. Vinyl sure can be tweaked. What you gonna do with digital change a few wires...LOL

When I write in these forums, I listen to CDs. When I put the computer down, I put a record on and I am in my happy zone

Bob, the reality is that if you even have a slightest hankering for getting back into vinyl, simply DO IT. Lay out a couple grand on a decent table, arm, phono stage and cables and some new/used LPs and just go for it. You are in good company and you will not regret it. Let me know if you want some suggestions for gear in that range (Rega, Music Hall, Shelter, Ortofon, PS Audio, Lehman, etc.)
Steve

For those that made the switch back to playing records are you listening more now? Enjoying your system more? What type of vinyl dollar outlay did it cost to reach vinyl nirvana?

I listen way more, almost daily for a minimum of two record albums (4 sides) and even more many times. I go back to digital and I'm like... honey, where's the aspirin ? No comparo, imo. Analog way more fun and enjoyable to listen to than digital. $$$ outlay has been expensive...probably close to $20K for me (table, arm, cart, phono stage) excluding vinyl purchases when I jumped back into analog since leaving it back in 1983. I have probably spent over $15K on Ebay since Feb 2011 for NM or sealed condition for my OOP LP favorites from the day.

Progress is nice but sometimes I crave for simplier times like the 70's.

Well, I just bought a 71 El Camino street rod today with a big block 454, flowmasters, Holley 650, Dual exhaust chrome headers, you get the idea.

Why did I do this?

Craving simpler times. I have had it with sensors, check engine lights, and 400 things in a car that can go wrong that don't even exist in a classic muscle car.

I don't want anything in between the gas tank, and the carb.. other than a fuel filter and a fuel pump. No oxygen sensors or any other garbage. No computers running the injectors or timing the ignition.

Sounds like a good stereo system right?

I want a simple manual choke.. so I can control the mix. Simple.

Now.. what kind of tape deck to I put in this beast?

I forgot to mention, my table is in the shop (Thorens 125mk2) and the other table is not finished (Sota star vacuum table) I have been listening to digital and I'm about to loose my mind!! I miss my table!! I can sit all day and listen to record after record and not normally get fatigued. Take the time to read good books on records, create a short list of twenty or so records and seek them out at a good record show. Don't over pay. I one time had a list of ten going into a show: I got ALL of them at that one show! Happy hunting!

My hearing is not as good now. That might be part of the problem. Also nostalgia is always deceptive. Digital is an approximation. Ones and zeros are always ones and zeros. A digital signal is never going to be a musical wave. Analog is the closest thing to the event. Digital is so dry and clinical due to this "faked" approximation. That contributes to listener fatigue. Digital is just boring. Even an investment of 700 dollars in a good used table and new cartridge will most likely surprise you.

I don't get many, if any, pops and clicks on my vinyl. The table does have to be set up correctly, and the records clean, but, then you don't get the digital glare that you do from CD's that have only a fraction of the information that the vinyl does.

No "sample rate" on vinyl. If it was an analog recording, you get it all, and if it was a digital recording, you get more of it than the 44.1 sample rate of CD. HiRez files can get pretty darn close through a good DAC, or a very good SACD. Otherwise, no contest.

Csgreene, I'm glad you said it and not me.

Bobheinatz, I have bought two "modern" systems in the past few years: a Quicksilver Line/Phono/Mini Mites and a Primaluna ProLogue Three/Sevens. Both have on/off switches, input selector, and volume knob. No remotes. Manufacturers can keep their feature creep.

Morgenholz,

I enjoyed reading your response. I also did own a Tandberg receiver back on the 80's and it was real nice. Progress is nice but sometimes I crave for simplier times like the 70's.

Bobheinatz,
1. Your '70's system was simpler, and life was simpler. This generally kept us happier.
2. I play CDs, but I listen to LPs. I don't need to debate which sounds better or has more potential. To listen to an LP, I need to maintain it, I need to be there to lift the arm at the end of it, and I hold a 12" square piece of artwork/tracklist in my hands, or pass it around to my guests, while it plays. CDs, and the increasingly compressed digital media that followed, are all about convenience, both for the buyer and seller, and earbuds are not about socializing around the music! With a CD on, I cook, or drive, or wander off. The medium IS the message.
3. I do maintain a restored 1976 Tandberg receiver with Denon turntable and JBL speakers, and a 1978 Kenwood TOTL system with KD750 deck and Ohm speakers, to remind me of the good old days. They remain very engaging, but not as engaging as my Rega decks with current cartridges through modern tube gear with high-efficiency speakers.
4. I don't enjoy listening to cassettes much, but I strongly prefer the tactile mechanical tape recording process versus "programming" my CDR, or my phone, or my coffee maker, or any of my other modern "conveniences." See #1.

I wonder what he will have when he gets older? Link[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4E_BrGruCA&feature=related]

Bought my first Turntable in 1982. Wished there was a format that had zero surface-noise, because the pops and clicks were so distracting. JUMPED into cd format without regret until last year when I impulse purchased a Dual 1264 I found on Craigs list. Bought a couple of used lp's, and played them through my main rig at the time. I still find the surface noise irritating when it rears-up, but far less irritating than listening to a cd that was digitally mastered by someone that had little or no interest in preserving the dynamics of the original recording. For me;to vinyl, or not to vinyl depends largely upon whether or not a
quality rendering (and I DO think "Digital" is rendering)is available. I don't think you need to spend a couple grand on a turntable/cartridge to figure out whether or not it's your thing. I now play records on a JVC QL-A7 with an Ortofon mm
cartridge and am very happy with it(paid a hundred bucks for it-including the cartridge). The cd player I'm using is the Marantz SA-7s1 and I'm very happy with it also.

Well, after years of using cd's, I went back to analog, partially because of nostalgia and because most cd's simply hurt my ears. The harshness of digital was annoying to me. I purchased a used Dual tt and started to enjoy again. My theory was to invest as little as possible just in case it was a passing phase with me. That was my first mistake. Now four tt 's later, I'm quite happy with my Nottingham Horizon SE. The Notty is my main table with a Rega rb 250 that's modified and a Benz MC Gold . This entire tt investment was under $1500.00 and has brought back all the good sound I remembered and more because the quality is so much better. Had I bought my choice table in the first place, I likely would have saved some money.

Inna,OK.

I am in the US. No, not always do I suggest overseas dealers. However, for some reason I don't like to pay one and a half or double price for the same thing just to feed a few more people who insist on that. I advocate a free trade, and that means free.

03-23-11: Inna
From across the Atlantic at any hour. Orpheus10, this sounds strange to me, really.
Inna (Threads | Answers | This Thread)

No wonder your always suggesting overseas dealers. However you have the site marked as though your in the USA. It must need updated. Then your overseas recommendations will make more sense to other readers.

Let us all be happy souls.

Actusreus, since they say, "Ignorance is bliss", I'm sure you are one happy soul.

Orpheus 10,
I don't know what an erector set is so perhaps you can share your experience with it for us. And if you're done waxing poetic about your 8000-c, whatever it is, why don't you stop hijacking the thread and take your musical tastes exchange to another thread devoted to the subject, or use PM? That'd be nice of you.

Yes, I do have them. Try A Handful Of Beauty by John with Shakti. Indojazz at its best.

Inna, while perusing the vinyl, I came across "Shakti" with John McLaughlin, and "John McLaughlin-Electric Guitarist", both highly recommended; although I'm sure you have them.
I also noticed hints of "Visions of the Emerald Green Beyond" on both LP's.

Enjoy the music.

Actureus, inna can speak for inna, and if you like to play with things, why don't you get an erector set.

Orpheus 10,
Inna was being facetious; no need to blow the smoke...

Inna, the 8000-C and my Grado Sonata are a match made in heaven. They have incredible synergy; the sum of the parts is greater than the whole. If you research the 8000-C, you will discover it has an exceptional phono section.

Since it was gathering dust, I decided to put it to use; was I surprised. The setup I described comes under "weird true and freaky", but it works.

The subtle musical nuances I hear on playback of my treasured vinyl, enable me to return to that lounge where we played our favorite tune, over and over; or looked across the sea at sunset.

This magic carpet ride continues all night long. I used two baluns and Cat-5 to run a signal to the bedroom. Nothing evokes emotions like music properly reproduced. It enables one to experience feelings of times past that put a glow in their hearts, and a smile on their face; the music never stops here.

Orhpeus 10,
Just reading about your set-up makes me NEVER even want to try to replicate it. Part of the allure of the analog experience is the physical and tactile sensation of cuing the tonearm in and dropping the stylus onto the vinyl. And that's even before the sound comes. And when it does come, it cannot be replicated. Burning, ripping, converting, recording, processing, storing, etc., vinyl is as close to the analog experience as is licking ice cream through a glass window to tasting real ice cream. Stop licking the window and get the real ice cream, man!

From across the Atlantic at any hour. Orpheus10, this sounds strange to me, really.

The solution is simple for me, I do have much invested in my analog setup because the most critical listening I do is in the living room. Now, I also have other systems that I do more casual listening, and here is where my Denon CDR comes into play. I record directly from my phono pre into the Denon via RCA or XLR. You can’t get any better than that IMO. I then listen to those recording on my other systems...including my car stereo. The recordings beat the heck out of the same music purchase on CD. I then can convert the recorded cd's into any format that I want through the PC. This way I can archive my recordings into lossless format for any time I want to make a copy. All this through a 500 dollar Denon professional CDR.

If you're using that conversion system and can't hear the difference between your records and your hard drive files then I don't what to say. You should be able to hear the difference from across the street at rush hour.

When I rip vinyl to the PC it goes to MM on an Audiolab 8000-C, line out to line in of a modified DAK 2800-PC. All the capacitors in this unit have been exchanged for Nichicon Muse. This required rebuilding it to accommodate the physically larger capacitors. Phono amp out to line in of computer. After it's stored on the hardrive, it comes out digital to a Music Streamer II, and from there to the input of a modified Audible Illusions Pre.

The question I asked involved the difference, if any, between a CD from your playback list on the PC, as opposed to the same CD from your CD player.

Could be your pre is sending your analog signal through a digital processor which would explain why you're not hearing much difference. My CD players and computers route to the same converter (Weiss DAC1MK2) so the difference is negligible.

The playback sounds better than straight to the pre. This could be due to the modified phono input to the computer.

Duaneadam, which sounds the best, CD's from your CD player, or CD's from your playback on the PC.

Then your computer man has solved the audio problem that has eluded the entire recording industry since the inception of digital. Having digital sound the same as analog and having it sound the same to you are two different matters. If he's devised a digital system that authentically duplicates the sound of analog, he's going to be a rich man and I'll gladly be his first customer.

My computer man (I refuse to call him a geek) has a degree and a number of certificates. I don't know or care, how he has arranged a modified phono input and DAC output that allows me to hear vinyl from my playback list which sounds the same as if I were spinning it on the rig.

Sorry but you're not going to replicate the sound of vinyl with digital. Not any digital. I've tried numerous times with the Weiss ADC in my studio going to 24/192 and re-playing on my Weiss DAC1. There may be more expensive "digital rigs" but few that sound better, and the vinyl still kills it.

I was referring to the "poor man's" delusional nirvana. There is no comparison between the rigs discussed here and the one's we listened to in the 70's. If you are aware of the price of the trip to paradise, enjoy the journey. You will experience new sensations, when you hear those old records on a new rig.

I recently read about an audiophile who owns a new Joule Electra Pre, a CAT amp, and listens exclusively to PC. Vinyl ripped to PC via a megabuck rig, sounds as good coming out, as it did going in. I listen to vinyl and digital via the PC playback list. I can not hear any loss of sonics.

Elizabeth, while I have read about a lot of amps, ARC is the best I have actually heard.

Inna, I never shop for cheap records because my "objects of desire" are too unique; they usually cost $30 or $35. There are people willing to pay $200. for some of my records, I have pointed them out to my heirs.

Yeah, the cost of records, both new and used, is something to consider if you plan to expand or/and improve your collection. In my case it is $20-$25 per record on average, this includes the cost of shipping from places like Japan and Germany. I have $4 records and I have $100 records. I don't go over $100, this must be something incredible for me to do it.

you can only reach nirvana through the eightfold path

table, arm, cart, phono, cleaning, alignment, isolation, and recordings

$5K minimum

Orpheus,

I have 200+ records and at least 100 78's. I am also aware that new records can be very expensive but what isn't expensive. There are still retail stores that I know that sell new and used vinyl and very reasonable costs.

Elizabeth, we will not forgive you, don't even think about it. And you are certainly not lazy to write a lot about how lazy you are.

Orpheus10, $3k or any amount for that matter will not get us to nirvana. Sorry.

Getting into vinyl makes no sense if you don't already own records. The sonics vary from one LP to the next. CD's vary from one to the next, there is no consistency. If you got your records get a rig, however; if you must, 3K will take you to nirvana.

Inna & Artis4n,

That is the type of advise I am now looking for. Both of you are recommending spending most of my budget on a tt/arm combo & phone preamp. Buying used is certainly an option I will strongly look at. I could also increase my budget some. Thanks, keep them coming.

Bob, lets say 3000. You can get MANY great cartridges anywhere between 200 to 10000. So, I would make that your last expenditure. The TT and phono pre is where the money should go. I would look for a TT in the 1500 range and a pre in the 1000 dollar range. 500 should get you a great starter cartridge.

Short answer: Get a turntable!

There is such a vast disparity in the musicality between what we hear from LPs and digital (and the digital playback is not "low rent")that digital is mostly for background music and those times when one does not want to be distracted by having to flip a record.

If you really LOVE music it is THE way to go.