Vimberg Speakers

You might want to ask Jeff Fritz at Soundstage! if he has any thoughts or opinions on this.  He currently uses Vimbergs as his reference speakers for reviewing purposes. 

Thanks for the input. I actually should.
He has the bigger ones, the Tonda and he uses a Boulder 2060.
I want to rebuild a system from scratch, similar to his model.
Streaming DAC Preamp - Power Amp - Speakers.

Steph,

There are two brands I have recently fallen for. Vimberg and 
Boresson. They have bypassed the British from what I have
heard. Please keep us posted on your progress.

Steph here is our take on your questions. We are going to be a Vimberg dealer, and have a pair of Amea's on order. 

We have 30 years of experience with high performance loudspeakers.

Our decision to pursue Vimberg came about after hearing the Tondas at Axpona.  At Axpona we heard every major expensive loudspeakers at the show, which included many of the Magicos, the Wilson DAW,

We have the KEF Blades, and the Paradigm Personas and the Legacy Aeris on the floor, each one of these excellent loudspeakers have a strength and particular set of attributes. 

Previously we have had  Kharmas at our shop and the Polymer Research MKX-S on display which is a speaker with both the Acuton Diamond tweeter and Diamond midrange drivers, in a very inert all metal enclosure with custom bass drivers. 

So we have heard and played with a ton of great loudspeakers. 

The Vimbergs were spectacular at Axpona, the speakers were one of the most amazing demos at the show, they were tonally pure, had a huge sound stage, had excellent bass response and just sounded like music they were the best sounding set of speakers at the show for less money than  the other reference grade loudspeakers.

The Mino is designed for a good sized room but will not sound as big or offer as much deep bass as the larger Tonda.

As per the Ceramic vs the Diamond tweeter, the Ceramic is much smoother than earlier generations of this tweeter it just lacks the greater sweat-ness  and clarity of the Diamond.

Jeff went with the Ceramic as it is the better value, you can also start with the Ceramic tweeter and later switch to the Diamond. 

We would look at the Lumin X1 as one of the best streamer dacs along with the T+A electronics which are very sweet sounding with superb extension. The T+A gear is absolutely world class, superbly musical, beautifully styled, up-gradable, and priced less than the competition.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ 

I also thought the Vimbergs were one of the best sounding speakers at AXPONA. Makes me wonder just how stunning the parent company Tidal offerings must be.

Thanks guys
@audiotroy you’re right, I’ve had my eyes on the X1 and especially on T+A for a while too
I think I’m almost set on the speakers, now I need to decide how to drive them
I’m looking to build a simple system, I was looking to have the Auralic Vega G2 as a streamer / Dac / Preamp directly into the Constellation Mono 1.0. What do you think of these components / setup?

The other option as per your suggestion would be to have the Lumin X1 into the T+A PA 3100 HV? For roughly the same budget.
In that case, I think the constellation blocks would probably drive the speakers better? Do you think these speakers are hard to drive them being 4 ohms?

For T+A, ideally you’d need to add the power supply or best, the mono blocks with the power supply but then the budget quickly goes through the roof...
For the Tonda vs the Mino, the Tonda are just too big for my room...

Can you use the Lumin X1 directly with power amps? Can it serve as a preamp? I saw lumin uses it with their new power amp but on their site they say that using it as volume control is not advisable?

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Can LUMIN control my amplifier volume?

Currently, this feature is not available. The app volume control digitally adjusts the output from LUMIN. This is not necessarily the highest quality method and therefore we recommend that you use your amplifier’s remote control for this purpose.

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I listened to a pair of Vimberg Mino recently and didnt feel the room or components were doing the speakers any favours.. my take away is that they def need careful system matching ie warm amplification. 

If you have that kind of coin to spend, also demo a pair of Falcon Reference.
They don't look as photogenic as the Vimbergs but in the 'flesh' they have real room presence, stunning speakers for sound and looks. Probably easier to system match too

Went online and was surprised they don't even list their specifications.  They look beautiful all except the tweeter and mid range drivers.  They also look like they are made similarly to PSB.  How much do they sell for?

Spinaker we agree with you which is why we are going with the Vimbergs.

The reality is that Vimberg is offering about 90% of the sound of the Tidals for about 1/2 the price. 

The idea of Vimberg was to carefully make some cost cutting changes that would allow for easier and faster build while retaining much of the same sound quality.

At Cap and Axpona we have heard both the Vimbergs and Tidals, the Vimberg setup at Axpona in our mind sounded better than  the Tidal setups that werre shown previoulsly.

One difference was the room in the Vimberg Axpona demo the speakers were in a very large room and pulled far into the room, while the Tidal demos were in smaller room much closer to the rear wall, also in some yearrs the setups were Bricasti amps and digital vs the Tidal electronics which we think are more musical. 

Larry5729 in what way are the tweeter and and midrange drivers any less "beautiful than anything else."

Step we have never been fans of the Constellation gear, many people in the industry think Consetellation gear is okay but hardly amazing. 

The Lumin X1 is exceptional and can go directly into a power amplifier. 

The T+A PA 3100 integrated has more than enough omph to drive almost any speaker to very loud levels, it is 300 watts into an 8 ohm load and 500 watts into a 4 ohm load.

The tonality of the T+A gear is neutral with a slightly warm midrange, and a big full bass sound, we have yet to find a set of loudspeakers which it fails to sound fantastic with.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

I have always wondered why some speaker manufacturers design their speakers as 4 ohm rather than 8 ohm speakers.  Since 4 ohm require about double the current this limits the kind of amplifier you need to drive them and I would imagine a 4 ohm is less efficient and perhaps they tend to generate more distortion.  Kind of like driving a 600 horsepower car at 65 mph vs driving a 300 horsepower car at the same speed.  Is there an advantage for designing a 4 ohm speaker knowing this.  I wonder if then a 4 ohm speaker provides a more dynamic response.  An 8 ohm speaker would I would think require turning up the volume much less than using 4 ohm speakers.  This also said, I wonder why amplifier and receiver manufacturers do not talk more about current/amperage verses watts when current is actually the most important specification.  Amplifier manufacturers usually try to hide the specifications for amperage numbers because the numbers are lower than watts.  Hope you do not feel this to be a stupid question.  This certainly gives away my being a beginner compared to knowledge and experience this group has.  This said, I have been amazed by the knowledge this group has.  I have also been amazed by the willingness to teach and share their knowledge.

@willmacc, it's always hard to listen to evaluate a system as something so simple as speaker cable or the room itself can totally ruin the experience, so if you don't have previous experience with the components or the place, you don't know what you're listening to...
Thanks for your suggestion for the Falcon, I will see if I can hear them somewhere but from my experience, I have never been keen on ribbon tweeters.
@larry5729, they do list their specifications on their page
https://vimberg.de/mino/
They sell for about 26K euros in Europe for the ceramic tweeter and basic finish. Add 2k for piano lacquer and I think about 8k for Diamond tweeter.
Concerning your question, I don't find it stupid since I am wondering the same thing. I think in HIFI, it's always a matter of compromises. They probably do this to achieve something else on another level.
@audiotroy 
So for you, a good setup would be lumin x1 - T+A PA 3100 - Vimberg Mino? When will you receive the Amea?
Would you recommend something else with similar spirit?

Agree with you Steph. Only heard these once, wd like.to hear again in another system.  I have the same midrange drivers as the Mino in a set of speakers at home and can only say they def need a warm side of neutral set up. Currently use a tube pre w class D power, which works pretty well.

@soix
I actually did write to Jeff Fritz, thanks for the advice.
For those interested he published my mail as well as his response

https://www.soundstageultra.com/index.php/feedback

If you guys like the sound of Accuton drivers, another company that uses these is Estelon.  I heard these some years back at the So Cal Audio show and was mightily impressed.  I think it was the model XB on demo.  But the XA and models up the line have gotten rave reviews.

I think Marten also uses accuton drivers.
When Jorn Janczak (Tidal / Vimberg) was asked about it, he said that drivers are like grapes, and you can make either vinegar with it or very good wine...And that the drivers are just a base but the rest of the speaker makes a big difference

@audiotroy, while I recognize it's nearly impossible to compare one speaker to another in different systems, I am compelled to ask if you have experience with Radiho D1.1 and if so, how does their sound compare to the Amea?

Currently have focal sopra 2’s powered by audio research ref 160m’s and a audio research ref 6 preamp.

Still kinda looking, but I’m 80% sure I’m going to order the vimberg Tondas. Going to make my final decision after Axpona in April. Have listened to the Tonda’s almost every Saturday for the last 3 months. Very impressed with them.

@audiotroy  How do the vimbergs compare to the focal utopia line like scala utopia evo?
Also I believe the piano G2 is not that far off price wise from the mino  is that right? Would the G2 be a better option then?
I compared the tonda D to the contriva g2 and found the g2 far superior (but enjoyed the tonda D as well).

Do NOT let ANYONE tell you that the Vimberg's are "90% of the Tidal speakers at 50% of the cost!

That is inherently NOT the case...

Azjake hello. Yes the Vimberg speakers are very close to the Tidals, we have heard both extensively at Axpona, at Axpona 2019 the setup of the Tonda D was absolutely superb. 

In fact we signed on to be Vimberg dealers because of this demo.

The Tonda D filled up a giant room roughly 60 by 30. The bass was deep tight and controlled. The image was large and very well defined. 

The speakers had excellent air and overall clarity. The Tonda D or any Vimberg model especially with the Diamond upgrade will come quite close to the Tidals. 

The entire idea of launching Vimberg was to bring down the cost of owning a Tidal product to a much more reachable level, this was done by carefully making alterations to the cabinet material, bracing, finishing, and a few other areas, and of course using the standard version of the Accuton drivers vs the much more costly custom black versions made exclusively for Tidal.

The Tidal line is a more refined and the speakers with the Diamond midrange will sound even clearer and sweeter.

Based on our demos with a full Tidal system that was on display at Axpona vs the Vimberg display unless you put the speakers side by side you would be hard pressed to hear a major difference.

The areas are extended air, greater sweetness and musicality and overall greater refinement, in the Tidal line and you will have to pay a lot more money to get the subtitle but worthwhile improvements.

The reality is that Vimberg makes Tidal's house sound a much more attainable entity and enables the brand to effectively compete with Wilson, Focal, and many others while retaining the core principles of the brand. 

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ Vimberg dealers

I compared the contriva g2 to the tonda d and although the tonda was excellent the contriva g2 was far superior in every respect. Soundstage, imaging, extreme detail retrieval. It wasn’t close.

Smodactal, did you test the speakers side by side on the same system or in two different systems?

What we said was the Vimberg Tonda D setup at Axpona was magnificent and other setups of the Tidals were not more magical considering the humongous price differential between the two product lines, 

That is not to say that the Tidals aren't a more refined product but you are paying a gigantic premium for that additional level of refinement. 

The reason Vimberg exists is to offer a tremendous amount of the same sound quality for a fraction of the price, so of course the Tidal line will be even better but in order to do so you have to go to those extremes which drive the price up dramatically.

In our opinion you can get the same results by using a Critical Mass Maximum or Olympos rack with the Vimbergs, vs a lower quality rack setup on the Tidals.

The Critical Mass racks are one of the most remarkable performance improvements you can make in elevating a system. So yes we would do a really well implemented Vimberg setup vs a non maximized Tidal setup and still come away with magnificent sound for less.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ Vimberg and Critical Mass dealers

Hey @audiotroy  yup heard them side by side at a dealer with exact same system (high end tidal system). The dealer did say that maybe the slight difference of positions, effected things with the vimbergs being further out and the tidals being further in? Not sure if that would make a massive difference in the detail retrieval and clarity I heard coming from the tidal.
Talked to Doug  white about this and he confirmed that throughout the two lines there is quite a huge difference.
But I am happy if I am wrong since we can all save money on vimberg!
How do you like the vimberg compared to the other heavy hitters you have sold like the persona? Or other of your favorite speakers?