Currently have a Thorens TB-150 which is upgraded to about the fullest extent (Cardas Wiring, New Walnut Plinth, MusicHall Cruise Control 2.0, Rega RB220 Arm, Ortofon 2M Bronze). With that being said, my table is plagued with skips if you all but tip-toe in the room. One of those things that just gets on my nerves. So I have been looking around for a mass-loaded TT.
Is changing to a ClearAudio Performance or MusicHall 9.3 really going to make a different in the skipping? Any feedback on the Goldring Eroica LX Cart? Are there any tables to be looking at?
The slippage problem seems to be normal upon start-up of the TD150. I have decided to keep the table as it is an impressive setup. There are some good and relatively cheap options to brace the room.
@geoffkait exactly, I want to spend time on improving isolation, the original reason for this post was because my previous non-suspended table had none of these issues. So I am trying to decide if going to a mass-loaded TT would be a better first step instead of investing tons of isolation.
Current project for this week is to get some 2x12s and some bottle jacks to see if that will stiffen up the floor and stop the shake.
" the original reason for this post was because my previous non-suspended table had none of these issues."
hifiron, Would that (fact) be a good starting point and an honest reason in need of disclosure before you made a mess of this? Wow! I knew something was wrong.
As usual, I’m the one who seemingly is the "bad guy". Give me a break!
toddveronne. See?
Frankly, I’m the one who gave toddverrone the basics for his current TT set-up/the springs.
Floor support. For each area you want to stop floor vibes, get into the crawl space with a four by four cut to the length long enough to span two nearby joists. Place your piece of wood perpendicular to the two joists. Prop the piece of wood up with a jack from HomeDepot which will cost less than $20.00 each. These jacks use a wrench to screw them up and down. Easy to do. Works really well to quell the vibes!! You can dance near the area you've supported without skipping needle issues.
At every issue I tried to address with the Op, I never received any response.
@toddverrone, why do you chose to say" "you either drink too much or need to get laid"?
I’m not "mad", I’m just passionate.
Without knowing me, you have created an "impassionate expressive description" of a person you don’t know, yet somehow feel a need to make public that I’m a "basket case".
I don’t know why you feel this (need), but it is over the line in the context of these discussions.
Your posts have diverted the attention from the OP’s post.
Having said that, I don’t know why my post regarding how I dealt with my support structure is now being a reference by the OP to another poster as something he’s considering!
Forget anything I ever posted, as @ toddverrone knows me better than I know myself.
Maybe, I'll (PM) @toddverrone regarding any other issue I'm thinking about. Hopefully, this measure will make it clear to all who subscribe to @toddverrone thinking, will have a say in what (he) thinks should happen with any future post I make.
Checking in... wanted to circle back to the post with some findings.
1. Supporting joists under just the listening room was not helpful. The foyer/listening room/dining room all have this trampoline floor issue.
2. I borrowed a VPI from a local dealer and set it up in the same spot with supports in crawlspace removed, no skipping issues.
So while the Thorens TD-150 is a fantastic sounding table, I think after the move from a slab to crawlspace, its time to let it go find a better more-suitable home.
@slaw thank you for your insight and opinion, sorry for not disclosing the slab-crawlspace move up front.
Really appreciate the ideas here. While I am not sold on moving to a VPI, I think the combination of increased support in the room, dedicated isolation platform, and a non-suspended TT is my direction.
Ron - I told you how to fix the problem. You seem not to be able to read or not wanting to fix it. Your Thorens is a good turntable, your table is not. The wood wedged between the wall and table is very much like the wall support.
You could use 4 lengths of small link strong chain or rustic style rope attached to your ceiling securely.... to the four corners of a appropriate sized maple platform... suspended to the length of your liking.... to support your turntable. Nothing touches your floor or wall. Please check tonearm anti-skate. Take off the Thorens 150 rubber platter mat and purchase (Google it)... Yamamoto Sound Craft PB-19 pure ceramic disks (about $30.00) and place 8 of them on your platter in a circle pattern. Place and play your record directly on the ceramic disks. Check your tonearm VTA. You will be amazed by the beautiful musical sound produced by decoupling your record from the platter using pure Yamamoto Sound Craft ceramic disks and floating your turntable from the ceiling. Best Wishes
@stringreen thanks for the suggestion, locking the back cabinet to the wall didn't fix the issue because the issue wasn't with the TT per se. The cabinet combination with the TT is the real issue.
Aesthetics is important in this room for the WAF. It is the first room as you enter the home. Once I finish the attic and move the listening room up there I will be able to place everything where it will fit best. I will also be using the golden ratio when building the walls to ensure the best possible starting point.
That said, I am going to keep the cabinet in the room because its where all my wax is and since the room is so small, having any additional furniture in the room is not going to be feasible. Already a little claustrophobic in there.
I have decided to sell the Thorens and look for another replacement, it is listed on A'gon now hopefully at a price for a quick sale.
Thanks again to everyone who has made some great suggestions here. I am not super handy, so a lot of the construction related projects might have been do-able but not ideal for me.
As bdp24 suggested, hanging your platform from the ceiling is the answer, although I would not use bungee cords. I used bungee cords once only to come home and find my TT dangling. I use steel cables with turnbuckles to get the level just right. And as Slaw pointed out, I Would also suggest you move your platform from behind your speakers, to one side of the speakers, between you and the speakers, but not in the listening triangle. Behind the speakers, or in the corners, is probably the worse place, due to low frequency build-up.
When using bungee cords the secret is (1) to use bungee cords with the correct spring rate for the application and (2) ensure that all connections are secure. 😛 Timely tip: if you go bungee jumping don’t secure your own bungee cords. 😀
Bungee cords is a preferred inexpensive but effective method of vibration isolation oft used by Universities to avoid the high cost of effective isolation platforms. Bungee cords can provide many directions of isolation, including rotational directions. Where’s the beef? 🍔
@Geoffkait - I tried the bungee cords and besides my near disaster, I found the TT, not being uniform in weight distribution, wouldn’t be level with the bungee cords. Guess I could have weighed my platform with weights to offset the difference, but I just went with metal cable and springs. I’m still not primo as get an acoustic bass load up, when playing heavy bass LP’s. I can listen to regular to high dB levels, but can still get a cartridge feedback with heavy bass albums. Any recommendations?
handymann @Geoffkait - I tried the bungee cords and besides my near disaster, I found the TT, not being uniform in weight distribution, wouldn’t be level with the bungee cords. Guess I could have weighed my platform with weights to offset the difference, but I just went with metal cable and springs. I’m still not primo as get an acoustic bass load up, when playing heavy bass LP’s. I can listen to regular to high dB levels, but can still get a cartridge feedback with heavy bass albums. Any recommendations?
>>>>The trick is to match the load with the proper spring rate. For example the cryo compression springs I sell are rated at 15 lb/in. Since my springs are only 1.5” uncompressed so you only want to compress them 1/2” or 3/4”. 4 Springs would be ideal for a total mass of about 30-34 lb. Five springs for a mass of 40-50 lb. As you suggest the mass needs to be equally distributed to keep things level. My new super stiff springs will support very heavy loads such as big VPI and Verdier turntables and Classe and other big heavy amps and subwoofers. I suspect when suspending turntables the dynamics of the spinning platter could be an issue. The mass distribution is probably an issue. I would try the cables without the springs and see what happens. Stiffer is preferable to too springy.
@hifiron In your OP post you mention interest in the Clearaudio Performance. Beautiful table, but I’ve see it play in a room with bad footfall issues (suspended wood floor), and the magnetic-bearing arm mounted on it (Clarify, I think) was an absolute disaster in that setting. Way too sensitive & springy of a suspension, which is the same problem as your Thorens, it seems.
The rigid bearing arms did a lot better in that setting. Even the magnify, which is a hybrid of magnetic & rigid bearing, should do much better (nice arm). I’d stay away from the fully magnetic arm for sure, even if you solve your table isolation issues (which of course you should!).
My friend reinforced the floor from underneath (it was a basement) and that helped in his case.
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