I'm guessing in the 15k range. I know how Richard designs and he took 30k amps and made one that he and the other designer felt was better. He's been working on this one for a while now. I have spoken to someone who's heard these and said they are a game changer for the price range they are in.
I'm currently using the Ayre AX5/20 integrated and I like it a ton. I got it over most of the 15k amps out there as I was also willing to get a used Audio Research or Aesthetix preamp to go with it. For me, the difference in SQ wasn't worth it, so I went with the Ayre. I have a feeling that this one will be for me as I know and trust the person who shared with me.
I personally may share reviews on forums, but I never audition based on them. The are just fun to read. There are only a handful of folks who I know and trust who review, but that's me. I get out and audition a ton, so I have a great idea how they will sound to my ear, compared to teh competition.
BTW, Richard is a great designer. Just because he has designed only speakers up to now, don't think he can't design great electronics. He even brought in another designer to help out. He's packed a lot into these amps. I'm pretty stoked to get to hear them once he gets teh full production models out. |
great music choice!!! Thanks for sharing thoughts on your amps. They really are special. I owned PSE for a spell, but needed to make a change adn the money was right, lol. I didn't realize Dean's masterful pedigree. I can't wait to get a pair in my room to listen to them. Smart move on their part to also have a 20hz crossover so that it's basically a full range amp that anyone can use since hardly any speakers go lower than 20hz and if your's do, I"m sure that you will be using amps at 30k or more most of the time.
I like the look too. |
Thanks for asking. No time to answer right now, but I will in a few. |
Ok, I have a moment. I have not had enough time to listen vs other amps. I do know that those who have auditioned them love them. They are voiced for the speaker. It's Richards way of basically making a fully active system. Teh amp itself sounds great running full speed on other speakers. I know of a few folks who like them better than many of the 25k plus amps on their 5's and Quatro's and they auditioned most of the contenders which are awesome amps that I'd die to own.
They will not sound 'fast' or 'highly detailed' like many amps do. Not saying they aren't these things, but they are on the slightly warmer side of the equation compared to some amps that folks feel are 'high end' amps. I like a bit of meat on the bones personally.
My personal thought is that there are plenty of great amps on the market. Your pre is going to be HUGE in the equation. That's probably more important than the amp is. I am hoping to hear the KXR pre amp with a pair of Richards amps as I bet that would be a killer set up. I know they play GREAT with the AR preamps (which I also love) as well as Aesthtix's preamps (a true Best Buy in high end audio for MY money).
I have spoken to a few dealers who sell them and feel they are an outstanding value for a true high end set of mono's. Richard is a serious designer and the person he brought in with him to collaborate with him is the same one who helped with his big amps. Those amps, for my money, are KILLER amps in their own right.
I'm hoping to get a longer audition. Do you have the 5CT's? What are you running now? |
I personally find the Pass amps a bit warm. Again, that's my ear as well as a few I listen with. That's great on so many high end speakers as many are tipped up on top and or forward in the midrange.
The amps are made for the speakers and are a perfect match for what Richards wants them to sound like. If I was in your situation, I'd have to give them a listen. I am saving for a pair if I get them home and love them. I have the Ayre AX5/20 right now and moving to separates adds a lot more to my system in cost and new cables etc..., so I can't just make that move.
I had Ayre build my crossover into the preamp. I know they used the highest of end components (with silver leads not stainless like most use) and I love it. I assume Richard made that crossover to be as seamless as the one's he uses in the 7's or maybe even better, but you'd have to listen in your own system to really know.
I spoke a little while ago with a friend who Is intimately familiar with all the Vandy products and likes the amps better than the reference amps that they are normally shown with. He said that they have even more micro and macro detail than the other electronics he often uses in his systems. I texted about the crossover and he said that may be a reason he loves them, but he says he sits and listens even longer than normal. not sure if that helps or not. |
Bob, I'm so happy that you love them. I was worried as I always am when selling. I will tell you that you will ike them better than the non 20 version of your amps. The 20 upgrades were that large IMHO. Everyone I have spoken with who had auditioned the new amps put them up against 30k amps. |
agree. just listen. I also agree on using the better high pass. Mine was built into the Ayre integrated and they used the better parts. |
All of audio is subjective. Lamm makes some nice stuff. That amp is north of 27k. That's a huge difference in cost and shows what a great value the Vandy amp truly is. I'll personally go with the 15k amp if it's close to the 27k plus amp. As I said, audio is subjective as we all know and love. |
It's still pretty crazy to think that any product in audio can even compete with anything costing twice as much. |
I do love how Richard pays so much attention to detail. He's a frugal guy (like me) and cares about value...He is one of the few to give value at all price levels. Aesthetix and Ayre are two others. Many do, but not at the most of the price levels. That's very hard to do. Can't wait to see a pre amp, lol...;) |
I would love to get out to Cali and visit his home. Road trip? lol....
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Tomic, that's the part that most don't realize. Richard is one of those guys who is so innovative, yet doesn't really share too much of what he's doing. He just feels like folks need to audition and then make up there minds rather than worry about etc engineering. Heck, even the cabinet inside a cabinet was pretty innovative. I never realized who much goes into his products until I was 'taught' by Richard and Rutan at Audio Connection.
It's pretty cool stuff. I'd still love for him to offer your choice of fully active speakers or semi active (as they are now). I know he loves the idea of fully active. Electronics manufacturers don't though lol... |
I have a friend who wasn't 100% about the amps for the first month or so. Said they are really good, but maybe a touch too laid back for him. Then I spoke with him last week and he said that they are so good, that it took him time to truly realize what they are doing it and how. He said that once they fully burned in, that he fell in love with them. Said they are better than any of the under 35k amps he's had and he hears a lot of gear on a daily basis. To me, that's telling. This is from Rick who owns Audio Alternative in Ft Collins, CO: Johnny winters sessions off Hot Winter Blues: Mannish Boy ... you have to listen for Johnny screaming at Muddy to play harder. Just freaking awesome. Hard album to find, but worth it. Great stuff. |
That's awesome earth tones. Can't wait to hear your thoughts. What is the rest of your system?
Pass is all over the place from what I have heard. It depends on which line of theirs you are listening to. Most are a bit warmer and very nice. Good dynamics and a fair amount of detail.
Ayre also changes a bit depending on which model. The 20 series takes them to a different level in my book. They are detail monsters and can be a bit let warm than the Pass amps. They are very very fast and match up well with most speakers. Some feel they are too neutral, but I like that with many speakers. I personally enjoy how 'fast' they sound and how much detail they give you.
Sounds like the Vandy's are a bit of both. Musical, fast, engaging, large sound stage or smaller if that's what the signal calls for. I'm sure Jim will have a much better review, lol. ;) |
I'm sure you will fall in love with these new amps.
I notice you are using Roon. I love what Roon does, but it's not the best sounding program for digital. JRiver is a much better sounding program to use for digital. Matt Clott, who now write for TAS is a very close friend who is a digital guy. He's been going back and forth with Roon vs others and what control programs sound best and why. I am now using only JRiver through my The Memory Player by Laufer Technik.
You may also want to try JRiver vs Roon to see what your thoughts are. I'd be curious to what you hear. |
Ask Richard about DSP. It can be heard as of today. No one makes anything with DSP that can't be 'heard'. That's why I like analog tuning of the bass vs using DSP.
Many will tell me I'm full of it as THEIR DSP works best etc... Those are my ears though as well as some friends ears.
Digital is a strange bedfellow. It's SOOOO dependent on how we connect it to the electrical grid in our homes. Even DAC;s can sound different in each system. This is why I finally decided to upgrade my electrical feeding my system.
I had the Synergistic Research's top Powercell 10 and Basis cords. Once I switched to an AQ Niagara and Hurricane cords (will upgrade the server or DAC to the Dragon source), my system finally took shape. I can honestly say my digital sounds as good as most of the analog systems I've heard. Basically, they have figured out how to lower 3 types of jitter. Keeping the digital hash off the line that feeds my system is HUGE in lowering the noise floor. That just changes everything for the better.
Sorry to go off script, but since I can no longer use analog, I had to find the best digital that I could afford. It's a great discussion. |
The MXR's are a great amp to my ears also. I'd love to hear as shootout. Also, the Brinkman and AR amps work great with his speakers. You need a zero feedback design for Vandy's to sing. Just like you need to be fully balanced to get the most out of Ayre.
The true key to power is the preamp though. The best Ayre product to me, is the KXR/20 preamp. For my money, it's the most neutral preamp I've ever heard and I've heard it with tubes, SS and hybrids. I've heard it with Vandy's, Magico's, Wilson, ML, Maggies, Dynaudio, Avalon, B&W and many more. I'd put that preamp with their 9k VX5/20 and it would sound better than the KX5/20 pre with VXR/20 stereo amp. |
thanks for sharing Darth. I know that Ryan, Gary and the guys at Ayre feel the same way. Too many folks seem to buy expensive amps and don't even think about the pre. |
Thanks for sharing. All very interesting. I got to hear the Kento/M5-HP combo at Audio Connection. I was blown away. Just an amazing speaker for the price. It truly is CLOSE to the 7's and the amps are close to the M7-HP's. It's really an amazing price point for what you get.
Johnny Rutan took me aside and auditioned the CAD CG1 passive grounding device. They make a larger and better CG3 as well as a new reference device. HOLY COW....this is a must get for most folks I believe. the small one was hooked up to the RCA out on the DAC. It made a huge difference and it was 100% positive unlike some of the grounding devices I've heard and that include the Entreq ones I've heard, which are good, but there was something about it that didn't make me feel is needed it in my system. This CAD device is the next purchase for me. I know there are only a couple of dealers in the US, but I think they have a guarantee. You can call and ask Johnny if you want to, but it took the Treo's (I used to own them so I know what this device does) to another level. The power cords were the AQ Tornado's and the speaker cables were originally the AQ Castlerock, but once we put on the William Tell copper (what I own) the system took on a new level in every area. It lowered the noise floor GREATLY. Even with dedicated lines as I use, it will make a large difference. Sorry to go on and on, but have wanted to share that bit for a week now.
The other thing that Richard fully explained was why you need a true zero global feedback amp for his speakers to sound their absolute best as he shared with earth tones. I changed my system to a zero global feedback amp when I got the Treo's as that's what makes them sound their best. I also feel that the glare you get from an amp that uses feedback is something I don't enjoy the sound off regardless of how good the amp is, but that's totally my thoughts. Some may not even heard the difference or care. JMHO |
What color did you go with? I ended up going with Audi Havana black however in hindsight I think I would’ve done one of the cool Bentley Crimson colors in a really cool pearl |
happy for you. Can't wait to hear your thoughts once burned in etc... They get even better once you hit 500 hours. I'm sure you will love them for a very long time. |
