Randy at optimal in Santa Monica would be a good contact for RCA filters
you need to know with certainty the input impedance the filter sees from your adapter and the amp, I doubt conflicting advice
factory is open today, Nathan knows this stuff in and out
spring for the Vandersteen cones, washers and set them up right....
i hope you realize made in America anodized finish cone with washers and thread at $22 is frugal
enjoy the music not many speakers can do what 5 can imo
|
As you are on the West Coast, why not contact Vandersteen directly?
If you call in, Mr. V will call you back the following day. Just have all your questions ready, as he can be a bit abrupt.
You can also ask John Rutan (his Audiogon name is audioconnection). PM him and ask away.
Call SMcAudio to find out what the correct impedance for the amp is.
Pat and Steve upgraded my DNA-1 to monoblocks and the new power supplies are in the 33 ohm range, so I, too, wasn’t getting a proper bass output. As the balanced M5’s only go to 20 ohm, you might need to get the RCA version which goes down a bit further. But, I would wait until you get all the details.
Also, your cable might be a source of problem. Rather than use that cable, I would buy a Jensen Transformer to convert the RCA to Balanced. They cost about $250 but will do the job properly.
Bob |
I’ve got Model 5’s too and am very happy with them. The advice you have gotten to contact Vandersteen is good, that would be a good second step. First step is to read the manual thouroughly and get yourself very familiar with how Vandersteen wants you to set up the speakers. That will save some embaressing pauses while you are talking to them! If you don’t have a manual they have one for the 5A on the website, it’s essentially the same as the manual for the 5.
I did look up the McCormack DNA 225 and the input impedance (from a Stereophile article) is 100K Ohms. The manual tells you how to set the dip switches in the high pass filters. With respect to using balanced filters with a single ended preamp, the manual doesn’t address this, but I think a single ended filter would be best (mine are balanced so I can’t help on the “trade”). An alternative would be to get a balanced preamp. A balanced preamp has advantages from a noise perspective and there’s a good opportunity for a significant increase in performance! Not sure if there is a McCormack preamp with balanced outputs, but there are plenty of used options at reasonable prices.
One bit of advice on the filters (and the crossovers in the speakers) is they are battery biased. Similar to AudioQuest cables they use a battery to bias the capacitors in the filters. This is a contentious topic for some folks, no need to go on about it here ... Vandersteen uses standard 9 volt batteries which are soldered in place. The batteries they use (Duracell alkaline) are replaced every seven years. Yours could be well past that. Vandersteen marks the date when they do it, if an owner did it themselves hope they marked it too. I will say soldering a wire to a battery terminal is not an easy task. Too much heat will ruin the battery, but you won’t realize it unless you check for 9 volts after you finish the job. I know this from experience! Vandersteen charges $96 for the filters and $189 for the speaker crossovers (three batteries) so keep that in mind.
The spikes use a 1/4-20 thread and are 1-1/2” tall which is optimized for the speakers. Similar to the 2Ce the speakers need to be tilted for optimum tweeter “aiming”. At $22 per spike the cost will be $132, but that’s not much more than a generic spike. You also need fender washers for the rear spike to adjust tilt. A low cost temporary alternative would be a furniture glide. They are a threaded shaft with a round, flat base (instead of a hexagonal head). They can be quite useful when positioning the speakers in your room since moving the speakers is MUCH easier than with spikes. Be careful when putting whatever feet you choose, the speakers weigh a lot and can tip easily. I came very close to dumping mine when changing feet by myself. A second person is highly recommended!
The next big hurdle will be setting the low frequency level controls. There are 11 frequencies that can be a adjusted a slight amount to optimize the low frequencies. Adjusting the controls can take a while and requires at a minimum an analog Radio Shack sound level meter and the Vandertones frequencies found on the Vandersteen website. The manual goes into some detail how to do this, but Richard does say, if you can’t get it right just set the controls at the neutral position.
That’s what I can tell you right now, if you have more questions I will try to check this thread regularly and respond. |
Hi everyone thank you for you help. I've read through the 5 manual front and back.
I'm going to order the spikes from Vandersteen. For now I put the furniture glides on that pmotz suggested.
After speaking with Vandersteen I tested the 5's at low volume without the high-pass (they said ok to do at low volume) and the subs worked.
I spoke with McCormack this morning and they said that the platinum I have the imp is now 10k not 100k so I need to change that. I'll make the change tonight and see if that works. I've ordered the Jensen and waiting for it to arrive (as a temp solution) I'll eventually save up for a better preamp with xlr outs, or get the RCA high-pass.
I'm still hoping someone see this and wants a balanced M5-HP that they'd be willing to trade for an RCA one.
The batteries are right on the verge of needing a change and I'll send them in either this week or next. There's no way in hell I'm doing it. i also contacted Performance Audio in SF and they had zero interest in helping me because I didn't buy the speakers from them. Hey at least they were honest about it, but they did lose a future customer.
Once everything else is squared away I'll started playing with the frequency controls.
I'm sure I'll have a ton of question and I appreciate all the help. Even as is the speakers sound amazing.
|
Oh nuts, 10K is really low and I believe the Balanced crossovers only go to 20K ohms. (Oddly, I am in the same situation with my DNA-1's).
I think you may have to move to either an unbalanced M5-HP in order to get to 5 or 10K ohms.
I would first try the balanced crossover at it's lowest setting and see if it sounds good.
Bob |
@gdnrbob - beleive it or not mine actually go down to 10K (I just looked at a picture of my high pass filter and 10k is the lowest setting). Hopefully that will do the trick. I'm going to try changing it to that setting when I get home tonight. |
super good decisions Vandersteen is hyper frugal Dutch engineer the things he sells reflect good value IMO
Randy is in SantaMonica and sells a lot of balanced gear, my 5a came from him
give a call he usually has several sets of used filters as customers move from se to balanced, etc...
you got fantastic setup advice
I suggest buying a $50 Leica Disto for precision measurement , make your life easy.
have fun !!!!! you will be shocked how really good they are!!!!!
enjoy the music
jim |
Last night I set the High-pass filter to 10k (per McCormack) and well WOW...The Vandersteen's just came to life. The Subs are now firing and I swear the high's and the mid's sound better. While I loved how by 2CE sig's sound the 5's sound much better.
1.) Now for another question: Do I still need my subs to play LFE signals when I watch movies or will my current setup route the LFE signals to the subs built into the 5's?
My current setup is as follows:
I've got a Rotel RSX 1550 A/V (yes I'm going to upgrade once budget allows), where I have my surrounds (for now 2Ce's as rears) and center (VCC-1) connected. For the 5's, as the fronts, the Rotel acts as the preamp, sending the front signal to the 5's. I have the 5's set as large and everything else set as small and subs as none. Is this correct and will the LFE be routed to the 5's? the Vandersteen manual says I don't need any other subs. Just wondering if I'll get full effects for movies this way?
@tomic601 Thank's I'll give Randy a call today and see if he's be willing to swap/sell the filters. I'll also check out the Leica disto. My next project will be getting everything dialed in a positioned correctly, as I'm sure everything is a mess now.
As for power cables the guy who sold the the 5's and the amp also gave me two anticable power cables, as well as a
VHA Flavor 2. How do I tell which version of the antipower cable I have and is this good enough for the amp? Should I sell the others? The VHA seems to be for preamps, but doesn't fit my rotel.
Last thing. The guys at SMC audio have been amazing. They've been super help and spent a ton of time with me I'm super appreciative. I also plan on asking them to upgrade my amp once I get everything else dialed in.
|
The guy who sold you the equipment gave you some nice stuff.
I say try both cables and see which one you like. And, give things time to settle in before making upgrades.-You won't be able to tell what makes a difference until you know what your system sounds like.
Re: the Rotel,
I have no idea what a home theater amp does or doesn't do, as I am a 2 channel guy. I can only say give it a try and see what you think.
B |
@mzwerner - I have some Vandy(2C), Rotel(1055), Multi-Channel experience.
Your 5's will give you all the low-frequency (sub) response needed (Subs as none is correct) Just set them (as you have them) as "large". The "large" setting sends all frequency to the speaker(s), "small" trims off lower frequencies with a cross-over (if I remember correctly, 100K and below). As for your 2ce's set as "small", that is a matter of choice on whether you want full/low-frequency signal sent to those speakers, they obviously would handle them fine, they are full-range speakers, it's more of a matter of if you as the listener want the bass coming from the surrounds or not.
And if I recall the LFE setting, that is a (Rotel) setting to either filter out those super low frequencies that can drive same building neighbor crazy.
My Rotel expired and I replaced it with a Marantz 7702MKII (multi-channel Pre-Amp only. I have an old Adcom 535-2 (2 535's in one box) driving Vandy 1B Surrounds, and I can't remember the not great brand of high rear surrounds I have.
|
@kmckenn
I think I've got the 5's dialed down, but I'm not sure it it's planing the LFE signals. I think I need to keep playing with the settings.
I'll set the 2Ce's as large and see how they sound. I'm only planning on using surround for movies anyway.
I guess at worse case I could keep one of my subs and set the crossovers to 40hz?
|
I think I've got everything up and running to a decent degree now. I've got the LFE set up for home theater and it sounds great. V5 and rear 2Cesigs set to larger no subs (currenlty trying to sell them).
When I play music on two channel the V5 - 225 combo sounds amazing.
I still need to send the crossovers in for the battery change, they're about 1 year overdue. She sounds amazing now. I'm curious to see what the fresh batteries do.
Does anyone know how to properly adjust the 11 band equalizer on the back?
1.) Do I buy a sound meter?
2.) Is it better if I just set the screws to neutral and call it a day?
3.) Leave at whatever setting its at now?
Would the V5 subs benefit from fancy audio power cables or are standard cables fine? I bought them with fancy cables which don't fit the V5 plugs (Anticable 3), which didn't fir the plugs so I've been using standard cables, and may try and sell the fancy ones.
|
mz.
yes buy a meter as called out in the manual, the analog Radio Shack
Ebay from a seller w good feedback is normally the best source. The Vandertones are compensated for this particular meters foibles and positive attributes. About $40 seems to be street value for good condition functional meter.
a small camera tripod to keep meter at listening position also good, but I recommend an assistant also.
before you get all that together by all you can certainly set all the screws to neutral, they are not marked and there is more cut than boost intentionally which you will discover by rotating the potentiometers- a jewlers screwdriver works but you might try to get the yellow tool that comes w steens...Jaclyn in parts will know... I am away from my 7 or I would get you p/n but it’s not an exotic thing..partsexpress will have them
|
You got yourself some good speakers, Enjoy! |
You can take out the components and send them back to Vandersteen for the battery change. Its really not that hard and you’ll have a sense of accomplishment when done. There are written directions - only a phillips head screwdriver is needed - no soldering.
|
(((There are written directions - only a Phillips head screwdriver is needed - no soldering.)))
A number 2 Phillips driver for the 8 silver screws holding the modular Vandersteen X overboard in.
a couple small screws are also removed with a number 1 Phillips driver on the face.
you will also need a couple phone books under the fives bass power amp to support it and to remove the black and red drive wires that
are installed into that amp, a small straight blade driver is needed for these. Make certain you take a picture and mark exactly where the RED / Black go back into.
Upon return, you will need a small strait blade and needle nose to
reinsert the internal X over feed wires back into the amp.
Make sure these wires are clean and fully pushed in and snug after insertion.
Make sure you get 8 10 year lithium-ion batteries when you send them into Vandersteen. 6 for both internal x overs and 2 for the High Pass units. Protect the modular boards extremely well when shipping.
reset strait up and down out all of the 11 room compensation pots on both speakers especially pots 9 10 11.
Best,
JohnnyR
|
@tomic601 Thank;'s for the suggestion - I've ordered the RS sound meter.
@stringreen @audioconnection Thank you both I've set the compensation screws to all neutral only 1 and 2 where not strait up. I'm planning on sending the batteries in after thanksgiving. I have to admit I'm a bit intimidated by the prospect of taking them apart. Do ya'll know the turnaround time?
The Vandy's sound so amazing now I have a hard time believing (but do) that changing the batteries will improve the sound
I really appreciate everyone's help and guidance and hope to return the favor one day. |
return the favor by sharing some music you enjoy!!!!
turn times about 2 weeks...
DO get hyper fresh 9V lithium batts as suggested !
DO take those photos before unhooking the wires !
DO NOT overtorque on reassy and whenever attaching speaker wires to the barrier strip...
YOU may not notice a change in sound with fresh batts BUT yours are close to the edge and when they go ...they go.... |
@tomic601 I just ordered 8 Energizer 10-yr lithium batteries from amazon. I'll prob wait unit mid-late dec to send them in as I'll be on vacation then. Will def take photos before unhooking - I don't want to mess that up.
I've been listening to a wide range mix of music - a ton of classical: Mozart, Bach cello suites, Beethoven, Maria Callas,Tchaikovsky, Maller, Chopin. Spanish guitar, Elton John, Radio Head, Folk, Biggie, Gambino (rap sounds surprisingly good - these puppies can get down), remastered Beatles (just wow), Bob Marley, Grateful Dead, Buffet, Beastie Boys - I guess I'm all over the place.
I've been using a mix of Spotify and Tidal to stream.
The only downside is I now notice the difference in recording quality. A problem I didn't have before. - yeah, yeah, yeah poor me...
I love some album suggestions if anyone has any.
When I go five channel movies/TV also sound amazing. Bass is big on movies, but not muddled at all.
For 2-channel the bass its super crisp, but not overpowering at all.
|
nice musical diversity - wow.....Not a sub workout but try Sol Gabetta - Prayer....
Steely Dan - Two against nature will show you what the magical aluminum honeycomb push pull sub in the five can do !!!! freaking great bass.... ya man have fun |
@tomic601 ,
what happens when the batteries go?
I thought I remembered Mr. V. saying it wasn't something that would very noticeable.
Bob |
I yield as always to John at AudioConnection. Also...mark which components come out of which speaker. One time I accidentally installed the wrong crossover in the wrong speaker, and I had to take it apart again. It sounded VERY wrong. The serial numbers are there, but just double check...( I would put a piece of tape saying left or right on the different pieces). Also, the screws are very soft...I would ask Vandersteen for a few in case the heads strip. The crosssover (the one higher up...amp on the bottom) may not be easily removed....when putting your fingers behind the plate to get it out, don’t bend any wires back there (I did that too). Keep pulling - it will come... get a coke and resume your work. When you get it all done with the new batteries installed, the speakers will sound more open, relaxed and better.
|
@gdnrbob Just as Stringreen says, except the reverse sonic impact as the battery degrades....
DBS keeps the caps formed, audio signal does this but takes awhile
one cool benefit of the new Vandersteen power amps is 128 V DBS for the speaker wires and IF you order them the interconnect built in reverse from Audioquest DBS for those also
|
Thanks everyone I'll report back once I remove and send back. I've ordered the batteries from amazon. |
