2. amps-preamps
  3. 1038013118

Upgrading VTL 2.5 pre-amp to: CAT, BAT, or ARC?

I've been thinking about upgrading from my VTL 2.5 TL pre-amp for a long time. My latest (used) choices are: CAT Sig. (Ultimate if possible), ARC LS25 MKII (or LS5, if possible), or BAT (probably VK5i). Other choices might be Hoveland, Joule Electra, or Rogue 99. Besides great sound, my priorities are: build quality, resale, & convenience features. I listen to about 20% vinyl, so a built-in phono pre would be nice, but I'm resigned to getting an outboard one if I buy an ARC for instance. Remote is nice too, but I could live w/o if I get a CAT or Hoveland.

The ARC LS25 MKII is at the top of my list.......partly because I own a VT100 MKII, & it's the best amp I've ever owned. I'm impressed by the build quality & looks. An LS25 almost seems like a no brainer. I know it would be big bucks once I bought a used PH-whatever in addition.

The CAT, I've always heard great things about, & it would be nice to have a high quality built in phono stage. BAT, I've only read good things about. Did the VK5 come with remote &/or phono stage? Hoveland, well I just thought I'd add it to the list. I know there's a lot of nice pre-amps out there & probably others I should consider. And the VTL 2.5 sounds excellent imo (except the phono stage is very noisy), but I just have an urge to try something different.

Rest of my system is: ARC VT100 MKII, Fanfare tuner, Cary 303/200 CD (alternating with CAL CL-25), Rega P25/Benz Glider, and B&W M802 SIII's (alternating with Merlin TSM-M's). Thanks in advance for any advice!
steveaudio
11 responses Add your response
twl
3,251 posts
 
If you can go by a large number of members on this forum, the Supratek Syrah, or Cortese, is at least as good, or better than any of the units you mentioned. Check out the thread, "Preamp Deal of the Century" with over 300 posts. Many feel that it is the best deal in preamps.
swampwalker's avatar
swampwalker
5,138 posts
 
BAT VK5i has a remote as a factory option; phono board is an option, either @ factory or very easily installable after sale. Need to be a little careful about compatibility; not all boards work with all pres. I myself am curious about CAT/BAT/ARC comparisons.
maxgain
526 posts
 
My bet is that even though all of the pre amps you mentioned are top shelf and sound great on their own merits, that statement you made about your VT 100 makes me think you would love the sound of an ARC pre with it. I have ARC with ARC and they just seem to compliment each other.
gs5556
1,218 posts
 
I have owned ARC preamps and currently have the CAT SL-1 Signature. IMO, the CAT is superior in terms of presenting the sound stage, the space around performers and in overall resolution. Even though it's tubed, it does not have what you would call "tube" sound - the entire audio spectrum is presented with pinpoint accuracy without coloration or emphasis on or at a particular area. For opera and classical music, it's practically a must.
The ARC preamps were, to me, excellent sounding with slightly more punch and definition in the bass - I absolutely loved my LS2B MKIII - however the CAT is (to me) preferrable in many respects. In tonal balance, and musicality, I found both ARC and CAT's are very similar. Since you have the VT100's, you may very well prefer ARC for the sound and synergy ARC equipment has with each other.
But if you are considering a CAT, many have called it one of the best preamps you can buy at any price - and you can upgrade around it with practically anything on the market. Just keep in mind that CAT's are single ended; probably the biggest reason why they are not as prevalent for a product of this caliber. Of course, this is MHO from the standpoint of my system, room and music preferences.
bamafan
74 posts
 
The BAT VK-5i requires the use of an outboard phono stage. The internal phono board BAT offers was not an option on the VK-5i.
bigkidz
3,334 posts
 
I just compared my BAT VK-30SE to the ARC LS-25 MKII a few days ago and the ARC bettered my BAT in sound stage, slightly better bass definition and better dynamics. The BAT seemed to compress or limit the dynamics versus the 25. Don't get me wrong, the BAT does verything right, jsut not as good as the ARC. I have heard the VTL jsut not in direct comaprision on the same system and I do not think it is in the same league as the others.

Anyone want to buy a BAT preamp?

Peter
rec
328 posts
 
I upgraded from the VTL 2.5 to the Cat Sig. Mk111, it was a significant upgrade. I kept the CAT for a number of years until I purchased a low output moving coil cartridge. The phono section in the CAT just didn't have enough gain. I went to the Audio Research LS25 Mk11 and an outboard phono stage. In my system the LS25 was a good match, it did lack the detail of the CAT but overall it was a better match for my system. It also had a remote which I greatly appreciated. The LS25 is a great match with the VT100. When you look a preamps at this level they are all excellent and its a matter of features and which one best match your system.
snook2's avatar
snook2
621 posts
 
Its up to your ears but I went from a CAT ultimate to an Aloia at half the cost. Aloia is faster with deeper bass and better phono section. With totally different electronics had would one know which is better.
Ag insider logo xs@2x
ivanj
35 posts
 
You might want to consider the Atmasphere MP3. Single ended balanced and comes with a phono stage (or without).
semi
649 posts
 
ARC pre + power might be too much of a "good" thing. ARC, like CJ, can sound too lush and warm in the midrange and lose a little transparency. I will recommend mating your VT-100 with something more neutral so you don't overdose yourself with the ARC sound. SF is one of the top active pre amp I can think of that is very neutral and transparent. I had LS-15 + VT-100 before. It wasn't until I switch to SF Line 3 that I realize how much ARC sound I was getting.
drewfidelity
178 posts
 
From my experience with the the three main competitors that you listed and your current system components I would recommend the ARC LS25 MKII over the BAT and CAT in your system. I have owned each of these preamplifiers and wound up spending the most time with BAT in my system. I found that when directly compared to the ARC LS25 MKII and the CAT SLI Sig the BAT 30SE sounded slow and compressed. The CAT is the best value in that the line stage was excellent and the phono stage was great. I think that mated with the VT 100 the ARC is better choice. The LS25 MKII was the most dynamic of the bunch. The soundstage extended way beyond the width of the speakers. I think that you should be able to find a used one on Audiogon in the 3K range. I think that the ARC is a great value at that price. The resale value on the ARC is reasonable as long as you purchase it on the used market in the 3K range.

Good luck in your search.
Log in to respond
More to discover
80x80
Audio Research REFERENCE 250
80x80
Audio Mirror Wave
Zesto Audio leto ultimate