I don't know if this is any help to you, but I bought a pair of the Encores 8 years ago from a Verity dealer. This was after spending 10 years buying and selling numerous speakers in various price ranges, looking for the best long-term fit. Well, purchasing the Encores pretty much ended my speaker search and I haven't had the urge to sell them in all this time. If I recall, the dealer seemed to think the Encores were a significant step beyond the original. I also remember that multiple reviewers raved about the Encores and then BOUGHT them. You might want to consider selling your Parsifals and buying the Encores used, I've seen them on Audiogon occasionally. It couldn't be much more of a hassle than sending them in for the upgrade (unless you plan to do it yourself). |
I have the latest generation Parsifal Encores and have no desire to look for another speaker. I'm familiar with and have done some work for a Verity, Wilson, Magico, and Devore dealer. They are amazing speakers but Verity is the best for the value in my opinion. Devore's are cheaper, and Rockport probably presents the best challenge to my ears. Just my opinion. |
I have owned both Encores and DeVore 0/96's. The Verity is a great speaker, and I would never say I will never look back. In fact, the Encores are quite special. I have had the DeVores for considerably less time, and am reworking my system around them. I am enjoying them very much, and of course they have allowed me to use much lower powered amps. That said, it has been a fun venture, and these two speakers have been my favorite. I have heard the Rockports several times, and think they are excellent, but at a higher price point. I heard the Ankaa, and older Antare. The latter is simply killer.
Bjesien- Could you explain your last comment about Rockport. Sorry, but I didn't understand what you meant. All the Best -Don |
Bjesien, what do you mean "Rockport probably presents the best challenge to my ears"? |
I've never heard the first gen Parsifal (so I can't speak directly to your question), but I've had my P/Es since +/- 1999 and they're IMHO very, very good speakers. However, there was another upgrade (Ovation) about 7 or 8 years ago, IIRC, which complicates matters a bit. You are effectively upgrading to a long discontinued product - which might be a less than ideal value equation. Really just an FYI, since newer Verity Parsifal speakers have gotten very expensive over the years. I'd still cross shop the smaller speaker (Leonore?) just to sanity check the value vis a vis the upgrade.
Who knows, it might just work on the numbers, anyway. In any case, it's something to chew over before you pull the trigger.
Good Luck.
Marty |
Hi Don,
For my next speaker, I am trying to decide between the exact same 2 speakers you have had.
I am trying to decide between a new Orangutan O/93 and Verity Parsifal Encore (used) which are approximately the same price range.
Can you tell me what made you switch to the Orangutan from the Parsifal, and how they compare.
I am leaning towards the Parsifals so far.
Bhaskar |
Bhaskar- First of all, you are on a really good track, with these two speakers. If I had deep pockets, I would run either Fidelio Encores or P/E's in a second system. The P/E's, unlike the F/E's, can be s tricky load. I think the P/E's work best with med/high power tube amps. They can also do well with SS, if that happens to be your preference.
I would lean to a more neutral/linear tube amp, that can control that 8" woofer. The 0/93, with it's high impedance, will of course open more amp options. Is there a specific amp you own or like, that you would want to use? |
Fjn04, I didn't state that clearly. I think Rockport is a strong but expensive player in audio. If I were ever fortunate enough to spend real money on a speaker it would probably be on a Rockport.
How is the soundstage of the 0/96 compared to the Parsifal? I've always preferred the staging of the Fidelio and Parsifal (much more expensive) to the Super 8's and Nines.
Should also mention that Devore is very talented and makes great speakers.
|
Gotcha- they are indeed expensive, and relatively inefficient. I'm with you though, the Rockports are the real deal. I've had a good 5-6 speakers since owning the P/E's, and my system has changed a lot too. I liked the P/E's most with Tenor OTL's, but it sacrificed bass. I am very happy with the O's as well, and will soon be hooking up a new amp to them. This is my first SET amp, and I am very excited about it. Can't do a Rockport or Parsifal with 18 watts. As much as I miss the P/E's, I feel really good about the direction I am headed. |
Hi fjn04,
I own Coincident Dragon Monoblock 211PP tube amps. These are 75W amp, and think will be able to drive the P/E. They have only 8 or 16 ohm tap.
I love these amps, they have awesome bass too, that my current bookshelf cannot really exploit. I wonder if the P/E might be a good match for them. These amps are pretty uncolored in their sound too. |
It would certainly cruise along with the 93's. Again I will mention the Fidelio, because I believe they are 8ohm. I hate to say it, but the Parsifal is in the familiar 4ohm territory of Avalon, Wilson, Rockport
! Then there is the difference between an amp driving a speaker, OR ideally driving a speaker. Generally personal preference, type of music, and room size are variables that can decide. That said, if a tube amp isn't breaking a sweat, all those variables matter much less. Israel Blume makes a great amp, you may be just fine. |
Thanks for bringing that up. I always had in my head that Parsifal was 8ohm. Checked the spec of Ovation, its 8ohm nominal and minimum 4ohm. 89db.
Given that my Vienna Acoustic speakers are 89db, 4ohm and the dragons drive them pretty easily, am guessing power/current is not a problem. I usually do not have to pass the 10'o clock to get the volume I desire.
I do wonder if they will be an "ideal" match as you mention. or if they will have the right synergy. |
I drive the Parsifal with a low powered SS class A amp and they sound great. Better than the high powered audio research tubes I've had in my room. I suggest you listen to several options with your own ears, and as always, get out and listen to as much gear as you can. Enjoy it. |
Interesting to hear your experience that Parsifal sounds better with a low powered SS amp than a high powered AR tube amp. It must be the impedance then. Will remove Parsifal from my shortlist then.
May I ask what was the power of your audio research tube amp.
I have heard quite a few speakers, but its really hard to compare them unless they are in your own system. I even took a trip down RMAF 2013 for hearing as many speakers as possible. Often have to take the plunge with your gut. |
Essrand,
Parsifals present a modestly tough load, but tube amps can sound great, if they're a good match. My ARC VT-130SE sounded great with the P/E and, more importantly, so did my Cary 805s, which (at least nominally) appear to be a similar design to your amps. IME, low powered SETs (Cary 300b) and OTL (Atmosphere 30) are a poor match.
In fact, I bought my P/Es at Sound By Singer in NYC and (IIRC) they were demoed with 805s. I'm not suggesting that the P/E is the right speaker for you, but I wouldn't cross it off the list because you plan to use it with a 70ish WPC 211 amp.
Marty |
Thanks Marty, for your response.
My guess is that Parsifal Encore might just work fine. But there is no way I can actually verify it. Wish I could find a used Leonore (never seen those) or afford a Sarastro.
Think I will add Tannoy to my list, to compensate for the possible loss of moving Parsifal out (which was the leading contender). |
I thought I would weigh in on this. The original Parsifal has gone through three upgrades. The first was a tweeter upgrade, spike change and some changes to crossover, this garnered the "Encore" addition to the name. Later Verity changed the tweeter again but felt that it did not require a name change as the change was small. Then in early 2005 they came out with the "Ovation" model. A larger woofer base, woofer change, tweeter, crossover were also changed. They also added an aluminum divider between the top and bottom to better control resonance. The Parsifal can be upgraded to the most recent Encore but not to the full Ovation. That being said, I have heard both in my system. I did get the aluminum divider ( an nice but not inexpensive change ), it helped to lock in instruments. The ovation may have a slightly better defined bass, not sure but maybe. I could tell not difference in the highs in my system. The Mids are the same, same driver etc. I did try some stillpoints Ultras under my Encores and they improved bass clarity and control significantly. I would take a most recent upgrade Encore with the aluminum divider and Ultra SS feet over an Ovation any day. But, I never had a chance to use the still points on the ovation so that would limit the comparison.
Now, to upgrade an original Parsifal or not. I am going to keep my speakers for another 5-10 years. So sending them back to Verity for driver checks, cap replacement and complete make over would give me a new set of speakers more or less, having the upgrade done at that time would be very worthwhile. I think we are way to eager to fall into the planned obsolescence trap. |
Davt I was told I had the third generation Parsifal, however it is not the Ovation. Did you miss a change or did I misunderstand what Verity told me?
As far as the Leonore comment above, I've listened to them with two different sets of electronics. One was Octave and I just couldn't relate to the sound. Kind of sterile, or cool. They sounded much better IMO with EAR separates. I don't think either pairing would lure me to spending more money on the Leonore's. There has to be a better tube pairing. They are more efficient, and would probably match well with lower powered tubes. |
Bjesien, in the first line of my post I mention the parsifal has gone through three upgrades, so yes, three generations. 1. Parsifal 2. Parsifal Encore 3. Parsifal Encore with new tweeter and no name change. Three upgrades. Then the ovation came out. I personally would not trade out my Parsifal Encores for the Leonore but have considered the Amadis if I was to change. |
Good information Davt. I misunderstood. I haven't heard the Amadis yet but look forward to listening soon. |
