I have not heard the two speakers next to each other for several years, but what I remember is that while the midrange quality and timbre was mainly similar for the two (same drivers), the Linnbrook had more bloom and fullness - this could be because of the lower FR perhaps, not to mention dual speakers.
I would suspect a 50 Hz crossover point would be OK for the Taylo, though hard to tell without knowing how far you would put the speakers into the room, room size, crossover slope, etc etc. I do know that the 'posted spec' on the Linbrooks is very accurate in my experience and measuring - perhaps the Taylo is as well.
As for tweeters, what you are describing is the SEAS not the Scanspeak - the millenium is the smoother tweeter.
Last, as everyone always says, ask Ty - he knows his product better than us and is always helpful. |
Keep in mind Tyler has linbrook signature MONITOR and linbrook signature SYSTEM. I assume you mean MONITOR as you are refering to the Taylo Monitor which uses a single W18 withthe Scanspeak tweet. The Lin Sig Monitor (LSM) uses dual W18's + Millinium ina MTM design. IMHO the LSM is the one to go with, as you get the fullness of dual W18's PLUS the Seas Excel tweeter is a much better tweeter vs the Scanspeak.
I see my opinion falls in line with Jimmy's on both points. |
Sibilance is not necessarily speaker related. It could be your source equipment, bad tube(s), etc.
The Excel tweeter may not resolve the problem.
Good luck. |
The Seas Excel is the finest tweeter imho
Just my opinion based on 30+ yrs in audio audition. All issues are resolved with the Millenium |
The finest tweeter in the world, if it exists, will not resolve any sibilance problems caused by a mis-aligned cartridge, bad tube(s), etc. etc.
That is not opinion. |
I agree with Audiofeil, I have heard tons of speakers, and ones with the top tweets from many brands, and they all can let the "SSS" word out.. I have heard pairs that exhibit this behavior, and a quick amp or cable change can all of a sudden sound totally different.. Many times its the recording or the source, but if it is every single recording than you will want to look into a DAC or a Cartridge, I have had Cartridge issues that Amplify this as well as certain CD players, and others that are perfect balance.
Again you could take one of the ruffest sounding tweeters around and possibly not get a ton of siblance out of it if your front end feeding them are not amplifying it in the first place. |
My sense is a lot of sibilance occurs via the recording process especially with CDs. The more accurate your system the more these sounds become evident I have found the last couple of days much more rewarding from a listening point of view because I have decided just to enjoy the music.
I still believe the 17 has a little more energy in the uppermids which makes drums & percussion stand out whereas the TA product is flatter in this range or some have even suggested a db or so down,meaning it will tend not to amplify what is there.PSB(most) speakers tend to be that way as well. It is a question of whether you enhance or subtract based on a Db or 2 which can make a huge difference psycho-acoustically speaking .As I have emailed & researched my way along this upgrade path(I am a partial shut in) I have encountered quite a few remarks on how well the TA speakers render sibilance. It would be interesting to see a graphical output of these two speakers & compare the "relative energy" at about 7Khz. Again,I do not expect the speaker to cure the "problems". |
A question for you folks with the the model three Tyler Acoustic stand...how full do you fill them for best results.In my case I would go for tight bass over deep or loud.Is sand the best medium always?
Thanks
Bill |
How long does the Seas Millennium tweeter take to break in..does it sound really poor out of the box..and what is the best quickestand safest way to break it in?
Thanks
Bill |
Bill, I have the Taylo monitors with the millenium tweeter upgrade. I bought mine used, so I don't know about break-in time, but just play music through them and enjoy the process. The Taylos are great, but I would love to have the sigs. You'll love the millenium tweeter. Congrats! |
I recently sent back both of my TA sig monitors because one obviously had a blown tweeter or bad crossover leading to the tweeter being overloaded & raspy.Tyler will fix the one for free, being the great service oriented guy he is ,& I have decided to get the copper Cardas posts in that they are the best signal conductors according to Cardas in thier binding post line & will afford a better overall connection with my standard AP spades.
I am contemplating going away from the 16 guage DH Labs internal speaker wire & having the inside rewired with what I use for speaker cable which is the Oval 12 biwire. This would give me the same wire all the way through & most likely improve the bass with the 12 guage wire however I may lose a little speed in the midrange & HF extension & definition with the AP in that Ty feels the lighter 16 guage wire with the silver & copper is faster. What do other think on this one? Does anyone have experince with AP oval 12 wire vs. the copper/silver DH Labs? It is not a money issues I just want the best sound. Ty thinks the Cardas should make a noticeable difference being a good conductor & with the ability to make a solid contact with my speakers on the AP standard spades.
What is the experience of others? Keep the DH or go with same wire all the way through with the AP oval 12?
I am also thinking on buying some better stands having bought the model one which is a little on the wobbly side in terms of rigidity.(I wish I had bought the model 3 which is much more supportive).What stands at a reasonable price would you recommend that would be more rigid & stable with this large heavy monitor speaker?
Thanks |
I had a sig. Mon. arrive with a broken crossrover due to the box being dropped.It is along way to Canada. I had Ty send the fixed speaker back by Fed Ex however he claimed his FedEx page was not working & sent it UPS which given it has already been on 3 trucks & not left the states ,I worry about more breakage which is why I went with FedEx since there is much less handling & they are much more efficiency and careful. The heavy 55 Lbs. speaker in a box with two short thin Styrofoam caps on each end is a prescription for disaster in my opinion & I can not believe Tyler would not respect my wishes given the fist problem with such a longer dstances and the over handling that UPS has.
Have any of you had problems with breakage with Tyler acoustics products, especially the heavier ones?
Thanks
Bill
Canada |
Audiopath 49:
I have bought several loudspeakers from Ty specifically, Taylo monitors, the original 2 piece Linbrook Signature System and the huge Woodmeres.
NONE had "short, thin styrofoam" caps. Rather, all had custom molded end caps of a dense foam that is not styrofoam, covered by tough plastic sheeting to resist cap breakage under stress.
ALL arrived without damage.
Why you've resorted to publicly disparaging an honest, well-respected loudspeaker builder before taking delivery of the repaired speakers and only then passing judgement on his customer service is sad, to say the least. |
Ah yes UPS is notorious for rough handling. I once sent a cdp, not well packed(my fault) and was damaged. It would have made it safely if sent FEDEX. I cannot believe Ty packs his high quality speakers with shabby boxing. I hold UPS accountable. As far as damaging Ty's reputation for service and respect of his customer, one only needs to look at the feedback here on audiogon and his web site.
I can understand your frustration for having to reship 2 heavy/bulky items. |
First I want to say that Ty has offered me nothing but the highest quality of service. In the brief listening I had of the speakers before the short in the crossover became apparent revealed a fantastic speaker that was notwithstanding the issue that emerged due to what Ty described as a broken crossover due to the box being dropped. The speakers were almost totally broken in by the time this became apparent so it was a subtle piece of damage that became more apparent over time as the speaker seemed overly bright at first relative to the other one(the short).With close to 200 hours on them before the ragged sound began to appear
. I did notice that the 200 hours is about right for the tweeter break in .My Dynaudio based Silverlines took almost 500 hours to sound good. I plan on writing a brief comparison between the sig mon & the SR-17v3 as per another request here a month or so back.I can see there will be pluses & minuses however overall I think the sig mons had more going for them,however I will have wait until I get a pair that are undamaged.Again ,let me say that Ty said this was because the box was dropped.
I did not mean to disparage Ty or his product but just wondered about such heavy speakers being perhaps underpacked. I went downstairs & looked at the same type of box the stands came in & closely examined the caps again. Perhaps you guys are right ,
maybe this is heavy duty enough ,I don't know as I am have only received speakers from the US like Silverlines that were much more heavy duty in the packing & triple boxed.
Ty,said his FedEx site was down which is why he went UPS however I have a few friends that had UPS handling equipment that arrived in literal boxes of broken junk. Perhaps I panicked a bit because of my frustration over my broken speaker & was frustrated when it did not come FedEx which usually guarantees a efficient safe delivery .Ty,seems to think they will be Ok this time despite UPS as I did query his choice. I trust Ty,as I have spoken with him numerous times & you are right about being just a super guy with a great product. I also know that if UPS caused any damage Ty would handle it as he did with this last one .I apologize if I cause him any grief sales wise & should have thought of that before I wrote this. I did not think of it effecting his sales but rather was curious as to the packing .I was trying to solicit the opinions of others on this , thus assuaging my anxiety about what might arrive here in due course.
If my speaker(s) arrive via UPS & are undamaged, I plan to write a piece noting this as a timex torture test for sure .I now feel badly about writing this piece when you mentioned it could damage his reputation & will do everything in my power to make up for it.
I know Ty was most likely just trying to get the speaker back to me ASP. |
We can all understand your frustration, and are glad to see how that it all worked out. Yes Ty was trying to get your speaker back ASAP. But Ty should have known of UPS with heavy packages, their unreliability and should have suggested to you to wait til he gets with FEDEX to ship your speaker. Also Ty should/could have placed an extra cardboard box...no thats asking too much. Ty took a chance on UPS and its proven that shipping heavy packages with UPS 'can be a bit risky', whereas with FEDEX, the risk of damage factor is much lower. From your experience I doubt if Ty ever uses UPS again. Though your case may be his only bad run in with UPS. You may have brought this issue to ty's awareness and so future issues of damage in shipping can be even further avoided. On my heavy Jadis amp that came 2 months ago, there were 2 FEDEX employees unloading. With UPS most likely only one would have been dispatched. The seller told me he only uses FEDEX, never UPS. Ty should certainly take note.
Keep us posted on your review of the Sig Monitor. btw the Sig Monitor is not a heavy speaker, such as the Lin Sig Sys, not sure how UPS goofed with such a reasonable load.
Paul
I should have my monikor changed to PETTERSSONFAN, as his syms 3-11(12 is a choral), 13-15 (16 is a "Sax Concerto) are among my fav of all classical. What Hendrix and Clapton , others were doing on Guitar, Pettersson was scoring symphonies in the mode of "voice of the modern soul and the soul of planet earth"...Another would be Schnittkefan. Great modern composer there as well. I call both "the last(end of the classical era) of the great composers" |
>>Ah yes UPS is notorious for rough handling<<
Sorry that is incorrect. There are no companies known for "rough handling". However, all companies have employees that are "rough handlers".
Big difference. |
I can agree, there are most likely a few accidents with FEDEX as well. BUT! With FEDEX in command you sleep better at night. |
Really Bartok? Unless you have some statistics or data to back it up, your post is strictly conjecture.
As usual. |
I have it from a good source that all companies in the shipping business have less then tenth of one percentage damaged items upon delivery.The tweeter in my "offending speaker had a brighter sound that over the break-in period started to sound rough & then very ragged & disorted when the volume was turn up by the time the speakers were broken in. Tyler says it was easy to fix as a crossover board became loose when the box was dropped by Global & hence the distortion started to creep in.Ty,said once that was fixed the problem totally disappeared and no damage occurred to the tweeter so they must be very hardy as this tweeter sound extremely distorted when it left here especially when turned up .I hope the tweeter will be OK long term .Tyler said he played the speakers over night with a Denon receiver thenagain in the morning including loud when the binding poosts were installed .His test the next day at loud levels revealed no distortion in the tweeter & as closely as he could determine with a Denon Receiver(I hope he used a CD source at least) the speakers sounded the way they should.I would rather of had him take them home & check them out carefully with good electronics as that tweeter did not sound good when it left here.It costs me lots money every time I send things over the border.
I believe Tyler will make good if this speaker is not quite right. I now wish I had spent the money & just bought new although he said he replaced the drivers & crossovers,to his credit. The other speaker I sent back for a upgrade as it sounded thin a hard when played by itself so I asked him to play the system as whole to make sure they sound like sig monitors so I am not sure given the testing is done with a receiver.I just have to trust that Ty would be meticulous given my shipping distance & the cost each time they cross the border. He has a lot of experience & has sold 300 or so of these sig mons so I have to go with the reputation of the man & the speaker which is exemplary. In the end I know I will end up with a properly sounding pair of speakers..as Ty will see me through.He is 100% committed to his customers even though I do not understand his logic on this one. |
Audiopath,
I ship/receive about 25 packages per week using FedEx, UPS, USPS, DHL, and BAX Global. I've had very few problems and the figure you quote wouldn't suprise me.
As I stated previously, for anybody to make a claim that one company is particularly rough handling is just plain stupid. He clearly knows not of what he speaks. For the record and contrary to his assertion, I find the UPS folks courteous and careful. |
Having making my own speakers, I agree that the Excel tweeter is smoother than the Scan Speak. The Scan Speak is a bit extrovert where as the Excel is a bit laid back and smooth sounding. |
.That is reassuring. I hope everything is all right when the speakers arrives as I do not want the hassle of another cross border shipment. You would not believe what I had to go through last time when the speaker arrived .I trust Tyler ,howeverr being a perfectionist I would have preferred a new tweeter & to have the whole system checked out on a audiphile grade system. Lets hope I get lucky & get a matched pair without bad crossover parts or drivers. I know Tyler will make good as he just emailed me again with reassurances (what a guy) however it is all the hassle moving product across the border & having to prove to them every time that it is a repair item, not a purchase. You still get hit with brokerage every time & I would not dare have Tyler pay this at the good price he sold the speakers at plus the free service to date. He is a really good guy & I suspect if I get a properly functioning pair of sig mons, given the array & even choice of good equipment I have, that I can make them sing. I have not heard of anyone yet who has purchased these speakers that just does not love them. What is doubly impressive is all the high quality speakers these folks have owned prior to settling on the sig mons
if you go to the audio review site and of course look around on Audiogon. |
