TW Raven AC or SME 20.12

There are various threads about both tables, it is worth looking for those. Probably you will find an answer which will be a good one for yourself. Well, what is an upgrade? Sutherland created with his Timeline a pretty good solution for speed control. That one can be used for all decisions. Arms will always show different results (depending on the length, cabling, Geometry and resonance control depending on various cartridges). The Oracle was always a good design but whatever you will do, you'll find for everything owners who like/dislike something.

Why would you think this is an upgrade? The Oracle is one of the best tables in the world and just sings on Rock or Jazz. I have an Oracle Delphi V SE with turbo supply and SME arm and it is easily as musical as my Sota Cosmos IV, Transrotor Fat Bob and PTP Lenco. What do you think you are missing that you hope to gain from the TW or SME? They might sound different, but not better.

Thanks very much for your thoughts. Yesterday , I have the opportunity to hear the TW Raven AC w 3in1 motor in my listening room using my mc anna cart vs my oracle delphi vi.

Initial impression was the huge prescense and finesse of TW raven AC. Delphi sound more dynamic and live but lacks the emotion or soul IMO. Another impression was a full body sound of TW Raven w TW 10.5 arm but experienced some tracking problems which i did not experience from my Oracle w SME V arm.

Proper Alignment of cart could be the reason for it. Meantime i also noticed that
i was listening to music without analyzing sonics. The TW keep my feet tapping on the floor but i also crave for the live sound presentation of Delphi VI w trans reference phono cable. Manitunc was right it sound different but not necessarily better or maybe I'm just enjoying a new sound for a while.

Aftermarket value of TW is also one of my consideration against the Delphi.
BUt at the end of the day the SOUND that makes me happy is the bottomline consideration for making a decision for these wonderful tables.

Thanks for that report Dreamauduio. Will you have a chance to hear the SME
20/12 in your system? And do you know which arm you would use in the
20/12? The SME V-12 is supposedly better than the 312S, though I have not
heard both in the same system. I would be most interested in reading your
opinion of its sound in your system.

I have not heard the Oracle. I own an SME 30/12A with V-12 arm which
replaced
an SME Model 10 with V arm, though I have little experience with the Model
20. I
have also heard the AC with 3in1 motor in a friend's system and a few TW
tables
at shows, though I've never had one in my system.

The SME and TW sound quite different in my experience and I look forward to
reading what you decide to do.

After few days of listening with the TW AC w Tw 10.5 arm we have concluded that heavy cart like the mc Anna 16 grams w tracking force of 2.6g is not compatible with 10.5 arm which was the source of tracking problems. We also beleive that Low compliance cart should be matched with high mass tonearm as a golden rule. Furthermore , the local dealer of TW acoustic has also confirmed this incompatibiliy.

We have put back the Mc Anna to my Oracle Delphi VI w SME V Arm but tried the Transparent Reference phono cable and everything comes to life in terms of resolution and dynamics. I also noticed that the transparent reference phono cable makes a huge effect withthe Delphi VI compared to the fixed & stock TW Ac phono cable. I am now looking forward to SME 20.3a or 20.12 or 30.2a table w SME V arm as my next short list.

Anybody who has experience or thoughts for this two SME tables sonic difference is highly appreciated.

Unless SME fixed the problem on their V, when I had mine, the only way to adjust azimuth is to shim one side or the other of the cartridge. I think this adjustment is an absolute necessity for proper playback.

The SME V is available with a removable headshell as a special order. With this option, the SME V has azimuth adjustability. To my knowledge, the V-12 does not have this option. That function exists in the 12" SME 312S arm.

If the OP auditions the SME 20/12A and it is supplied with the 312S arm, he will be able to adjust azimuth at the headshell.