to mijostyn: thanks for your experience with these turntables/tonearms. Very helpful. BTW do I see correctly that you use a 4 point on a SOTA. If so, what are your experiences with this set-up and what cartridge would you recommend with your 4 point?
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rauliruegas, regardless of how well built the Thales is it is in many ways a silly design. First off fewer moving parts and bearings is always best. You want a stiff arm tube. The Syrinx PU-3 was the first to prove that. The SAT arm is the current incarnation. Cartridges are very sensitive to bearing friction. But most importantly exactly how are you going to apply the right anti skating compensation when the offset angle is constantly changing? It is tough enough already. That design makes it virtually impossible. Funny, you would have been the last guy I would have expected to fall for that. Rube Goldberg could do no better. |
"Happy and finished searching" Ah yes; if only I had a Dollar, Pound or Euro for every time I heard or read an audiophile say words to that effect..... Usually as a precursor to said item turning up in the classifieds a few weeks or months later. I do agree that the Thales is in a different league, just in the diametrically opposite way. |
Dear @millercarbon : Do you already listen it? bacause I did it in a top room/system with a cartridge I know very well and I can say it's worth to own it. Mijos said is a" nigth mare " and complicated for something to simple that I think is not so simple as he posted. Here what a gentleman that I respect posted on the Thales tonearm, @downunder is a proud owner: " This is an easy one for me. The biggest leap in sonic improvement for my Lyra Atlas has been to put a Thales Simplicity II tonearm onto my TW Acustik AC-3. My TW turntable now sounds the best it has ever sounded, even my tube phono stage sounds much better now. I am now a believer in tangential tracking tonearms. "" and other from @whatthe : " Thales simplicity 11 and statement, are in my view, game changers. I have owned a fair amount of tonearms over the last 20yrs. Looking for that final purchase. Thalesis it. Done! Nothing other then the walker or Schroeder LT compares to it. Masterfully constructed, beautifully designed and engineered. Everything is taken into consideration. No where else to go. Happy and finished searching. ***** 🖖✌️ Is it a perfect tonearm ? nothing is in audio ( always exist trade-offs. ) but it'sreally good design and with Swiss quality excecution levels. Btw, I like the Kuzma 4point tonearm but the Thales is different in different league. R. |
Of those 3 choices, the Kuzma combo is faaar and away the better choice. The Stabi R is a superb turntable and the 4Point is one of the best arms available regardless of price. Combine them and you won't find anything objectively and verifiably better. Subjectively better is, of course, a different beast entirely. |
I have the Kuzma Stabi Ref2 and the 4Point. Stellar combination that I have been extremely happy with. The support from Franc is top notch. I now also have a TechDAS AF5 with Thales Simplicity II which is not fully setup yet. The support from Micha at Thales is also incredible. Hopefully in a few weeks I'll have the arm base needed to mount the Thales on the AF5. |
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1+ rsf507 Frank Kuzma is an incredible engineer with a very creative mind. The 4 point is an ingenious design and probably has the best review history of any tonearm ever made. The Stabi R may be the most flexible turntable ever made. It has a top quality bearing and a great D/C motor. I does need a solid stand. There is no way you could put an effective suspension under it because of it's flexibility and wide range of possible weights. It easily outguns the other tables mentioned but is also more expensive. I do not have a Kuzma turntable but if I were to get one it would be either this or the M. I do have 4 point arms and everything about them is first class from machining to finish. rauliruegas, the Thales arm is a nightmare. How do you make something so simple as complicated as h-ll. If you don't think bearing friction is an important issue by all means buy one. millercarbon, you need a new turntable. Might I suggest a Rega Planar 1. |
I guess if you don't know its a copy of a 60 year old design then yes, its unique. https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2018/12/16/thales-simplicity-ii-tonearm-review/ The alignment jig is a lot like a Graham, except where Graham etches a precise cross and even supplies a magnifying glass for precision the "Simplicity" uses a huge circle for nice vague never sure what you got alignment. Awfully odd for an arm whose entire reason for being is to eliminate tracking error. It also flies in the face of all other pivoted arms ever made in that they all strive to eliminate even the most microscopic amounts of play. Simplicity doubles down on play and vibration with two arm tubes, two counterweights, two of just about everything. Except, read the review, when it comes to the work involved in getting it set up its two squared. My Origin Live arm like most others mounts the cartridge directly. There are a grand total of three pivot contact points. With the Simplicity, well frankly I lost count and will defer to raulireugas for the official count but it looks like at least 9. How 9 is more pristine and direct than 3 would be nice to know too. |
Dear @jaym759 : I disagree with that no sense " neither one ". Thale is the best way to go. Its tonearm is really unique due that even designed as a pivot tonearm it runs the cartridge in tangential way and this means that with any cartridge exist no tracking error and no tracking distortion for that error. That is a tremendous advantage over any other pivot tonearm along the Thales second to none build quality in the TT/tonearm combinartion. The choice is " pristine " and direct with no single doubt. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
Neither one. Much better by far in that price range is the Teres, which usually you would be SOL but right now happens to be one for sale right here on the site. https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9g8j4-teres-audio-certus-460-turntables You could get this and with just about any good arm have something leagues better than anything Clearaudio makes and for a lot less money. I know, my table is a Teres, running flawlessly trouble-free 20 years, better than anything anywhere near the price and mine is a much lower version than this one. |
