Tubes for Cary V12 amps.

Hi all,

Just offer an update I did finally choose the Golden Lion kt77 tubes. My initial impression is I made the right choice is they sound pretty good right out of the gate. Everything I read about the tubes say they need to break in for a while to sound their best so I can only imagine them getting better from this point. Thank you for taking the time to offer your help! It was very helpful and is much appreciated!

Hi,
I am just checking in to get some updates here. Thank you everyone for chiming in your input has been very helpful. The Ruby tube's still will not be available till sometime next year so I need to do something soon. The latest tip I received was to try Golden Lion KT-77 tubes. I did check with Cary Audio and they gave the okay to use them in the amp. Has anyone had any experience with those tubes in this amp?

Same here on PSVANE power valves. Their 12AX7, AT and AU were interesting too. Took 50 plus hours to settle in enough to tolerate and another 50 to find out they are a bright valve.

They remind me of Sylvania valves.. Great for a tired amp, but a fresh amp with good resistors and caps.. Bright does come to mind..

All the V12 guys, a question. Do all of you run all 12 valves? And if you do have you tried fewer valves?

It is quit an eye opener and can really cool a room down..  50 years with valves and 35 valve amps 8 different kinds.

Did you fix the PS and add Hexfreds and swap out the caps.. THAT changes the type of valves you can use..

One is my own convulsion in progress from SIXPacs. I feel a Grand Mal coming on.. 50 to 100 watts increase with a toggle switch, two wires a .22uf/900v cap. A B- filter fix and signal cap swap with Frequency collection .01uf 630 cap caps added. CLOSE to MY V12r, now..

Regards

I don't know specifically what PSvane UK grade means but I had a set of PSvane Phillips Reproduction EL34's briefly and they were unacceptably bright. Fancy packaging but not good tubes.

@whataboutbob1, I have a pair of the V-12s among other amps. Shuguang tube factory had a fire in the building next door to them, not their factory. For some reason the local govt would not let them re-open, so they decided to move the factory to a larger location. No real date I have heard on when Shuguang will start producing valves again. 

Would suggest you try the PSVANE UK grade of EL34s. Very musical tube. if you find any Shuguang tubes on ebay or on the net, they are over two years old, so likely old inventory, or 2nds  that some re-seller picked up. 

@decooney I hear you I decided to enter the world of EL34 tubes when I had a Western Electric 300B flame out on me. I vowed to never have that type of audio pain again. ;)

I'll tell you a little trick too. Bias with a scope and you will really be surprised at the difference in what that unit should really be biased at. Mine did perfect at 160 and that is actually high to stop crosstalk in EL34s. The higher I went the worse it got.. I also gained over 10 watts per rail when put under an 8ohm load over 110 per rail in UL, from 98 watts per rail.. That alone DOUBLED valve life, before going under water (microphonic).

The 6922 position is REAL important too. It has to be balanced CLOSE or you will have a LOT of distortion.. I lose the holographic imaging when I don't pay attention to that valve. SixPac are the same way.. I use a very special 12AX7.. Volvo, Mazda or Tellies.. RCAs are to rare anymore.

Regards

"Sometimes you get what you pay for and personally I avoid power amps with lots of output tubes for just that reason. Also why I got away from 300B amps the retubing costs."

@jond while I sometimes miss and look back to my former amps, your note is a good reminder to myself for similar reasons. I moved from large stereo amps to smaller individual mono amps with larger transformers, larger-fewer output tubes. Tradeoffs come with it too.  

@russ69 Sometimes you get what you pay for and personally I avoid power amps with lots of output tubes for just that reason. Also why I got away from 300B amps the retubing costs.

"...I recently tried Mullard re-issues in my Music Reference RM9 MKII and was very disappointed..."
Oh, that's not good.

"...Gold Lion KT77 reissues are by far the best modern EL34 variant I've heard I use them religiously..."
Well there goes $600! 

Agree, and KT77s would be nice in a Cary V12 / V12R, particularly when the old stock Audio1 coupling caps are swapped out for better ones. The amp really responds well to this, Mundorf EVO Supreme Silver-Gold even better.

Gold Lion KT77 reissues are by far the best modern EL34 variant I've heard I use them religiously.

I recently tried Mullard re-issues in my Music Reference RM9 MKII and was very disappointed.  The best sounding I've used are RAM EL34's from The Tube Audio Store @ $35 each.

One of the coolest amps I've ever owned. I'm currently running Ruby all right, 6V6 Ruby and only 8. 4 per side It sounded wonderful with just 2 per side. You don't have to run all those valves.  That Cary will bias PERFECT with just 2 valves per side. 

IF you want to learn how ASK, I'll share or someone will chime in..

Literally 12 valves will voice all 3 amps with 4 per amp and run a whole lot cooler.. 

I learned that right here on AG. I use EH greens too. The real trick to those amps is what's inside. BUT the signal valves EL84 and 12BH7 6922 or I use a very special 12AX7.

6L6 coke bottle are just wonderful too, 4 or 8 will sound so good..

The only issue is how much power you actually use. I NEVER use valves for BASS duty.. I have a feeling you use them for just that.. I've never seen a valve amp pull it off. Just to easy to use SS.  They run a whole lot cooler, and with a lot less distortion and better control.

IF I were using my V12r and it was doing BASS, I'd run KT88 or 90s, EL34 just don't cut it.. FOR ME... No bass duty..

It is one of best sounding amps I've ever owned with EL34s, BUT no bass.

Rubys are special, BUT the signal valves and a GREAT PC go a long ways. Sounds crazy but I learned on the PC too.. Mac could give a hoot on a PC. Cary, you better pick a good one.. I went to a weave from a big fat shielded PC.. :-) WOW

I'm looking for a second red V12r I'll match the first one, when I'm done..

Love that amp.. Just took it out of service for the summer, too hot even with just 6V6s. It will be 102 Tuesday.. Class ds.. :-) for 3-4 months..

Happy Happy

^^^ With TWELVE output tubes per v12 amplifier, and he has three amps to deal with, NOS tubes is not a realistic option buying thirty six tubes.

OP, If you can find sets of the stock Rubys, those particular shuguang EL34-BSTR output tubes are very good with this specific amp. It was designed and voiced with them this way.

The front-end input and driver tubes is where you want to spend your $ on really good NOS. The EL84 input tubes up front truly impact the sound. The secondary 6922s or 12BZ7 (R model only) drivers are next in order. 

I would call andy's tubes or look him up on the net and order the best nos tubes you can get from him they will sound way better than any new tubes and they will last a lot longer than the chinese or russian variants of the el34 tube.

I have had good luck with the Mullard reissues. I have a set for my six-pacs but haven't needed them yet. Nicely priced also. 

@whataboutbob1 I use to have a V12R and YES the EL34-BSTR tubes are going to sound the best in that amp, truly. They are/were made by Shuguang for Ruby and sounded really nice. Heard various things about them having trouble rebuilding the factory after the fire, political or something.

If I were in your shoes and still had my V12R, maybe try the latest from PSVANE, you can buy them in Octets. Try with one amp, see how it goes first before buying for the other two amps. Viva has them "New Ip Matched Octet Psvane EL34C HiFi Series Vacuum Tubes". https://www.vivatubes.com/new-ip-matched-octet-psvane-el34c-hifi-series-vacuum-tubes/

BIAS:
Best not to trust the LEDs, use the meter instead. The manuals were not updated on the last versions of the V12/V12R, and there is no need to go 280ma per side on those amps. My local Tech and I did some testing and figured out 200-230ma is good and no need to run it up to 280ma. 200-230ma (per side) will save the tubes longer and it still sounds nice.

Good Luck.