The Rotel has arrived. First impression...this thing rocks. Snappy is a good word, forward, very clear, but not overly bright.
Only tried it with my Kenwoods (they are closer to the front door..:)) and id say its slightly less dimensional then the stingray, not as sweet on the soft stuff...but its got punch and power, and the bass thumps, the contour switch is very cool. For me...it betters the SR.
One peculiar thing: with my "better" audioquest ICs...its fatiguing. But with the cheap $2 ICs I got in a bargain bin at the local hardware store, its warmer and more lush....maybe they are just less transparent and hiding things...and thats the reason....but I didnt ever expect to prefer them.
We'll see how it goes with the Dalis....more to come... |
Zamdrang, your problem is that from your first post you had your heart set on getting the Manley and the Dali equipment, and every suggestion from the other members was ignored.
I went through the exact same thing as you a few years ago and here is what I found.
Almost 90% of all high end gear is voiced with audiophile recorded light jazz. Ask it to play 'Something Wicked This Way Comes' (I like Iced Earth too) or even just an average contemporary radio song and you will find even $50,000 systems being brought to their knees.
Buying equipment without audition is extremely difficult. when it comes to rock doubly so. If you think you can read an online/magazine review and actually get a feel for how a componant sounds with rock you will be disapointed. Even when reviewers say this amp is good for rock, they usually give one Led Zepplin album a quick listen to cover all the bases, proclaim 'this amp can do anything' and then go back to their Norah Jones and Miles Davis cd's.
You must get out there with your cd's and actually audition some gear.
Having said that I have heard that the new Macintosh solid state amps are good for rock, and I know a Metallica fiend who swears by Klispch speakers. |
Agisthos....ive come to believe your right on hi-fi gear and trust your advice. I did have some metal cds with me at the Rocky Mountain Audio show last year, and the few rooms that obliged me...once I got past the rolled eyes and how "horribly recorded metal cds are" ...well...you said it. I guess the metal hi-fi contingent is small one.
The Rotel/Dalis is a different matter altogether. Its very upfront in presentation, I can see why some may call it bright...but its not harsh. The Dalis are warmish and laid back...so maybe ive stumbled on a great match. Its got power and punch and never sounds as if its straining to keep up. The rhythymic quality is great, it gets your foot tapping and head bobbing, it feels like things are where they are supposed to be if that makes sense. Its very snappy and punchy. The Manley was sluggish by comparsion.
What surprises me is that the Rotel with its more dynamic presentation still retains a smooth and lush quality with the mellower passages of metal, its not the Manley with mellow stuff...less depth....but ill take the trade off anyday.
Im really impressed and much closer to where I want to be. Best of all...NO fatigue...I was up all night...cd after cd...it rocks.
Thanks A....good to hear others know where im coming from. |
Zambrang, If you found a good combo then trust your own ears. I like the TAD, Vandy combo as the Vandys are not overly bright and soundstage wide and deep so the music from better rock recordings spreads out. However, one of my favorite bands is Aerosmith and I have a tough time hearing their music spread out. Their recordings are very compressed. I have found Fleetwood Mac, Mellancamp and Eagles CDs a bit more pleasing to listen to. The thing with the Manleys is that tubes can change the flavor quite a bit but, that can cost $$$$.
Eagleman |
I really don't agree that metal is in general badly recorded! Despite being a manufacturer, and despite audiophiles generally using light jazz with female vocals, the fact of the matter is that metal faces its own set of issues in the recording- ones that are only solved by proper technique.
A good pressing of Black Sabbath's second album will bring most high end audio systems to their knees in seconds. The recording is spectacular. |
I was quoting some reps in the rooms...not me. I dont agree either. I had some very nice sounding cds with me which I was told were thin, overly compressed, etc etc. One dude(me)with some cds...trying to tell a guy with a room full of hi end gear that his equipment wasnt cutting it....well u know.... Wont name names...but it happened more than once.
+1 for Paranoid. My reference cd for years has been Iced Earth Horror Show. Metal with violins, organs, female vocals and much more. Its all over the place. I probably have yet to hear it as it was intended...but im still searching....:)
BTW...Ralph is it? I wandered in your room at the 06 show, had I known your appreciation of Sabbath....i'd have stayed longer...:) |
I heard a pair of Supratek Monduese KT88s at 100watts RMS driving some rebuilt Gale 401s[one of the alltime great rock speakers].Stevie Ray Vaughan never sounded better. |
I had the LP on hand too, along with a few other metal faves. The system we had in the room had no upper limits as far as sound pressures were concerned :) although the bass was best up close, which was odd. Every room has its issues... |
So where is a good place to get CDs that are recorded well. I would love to be able to listen to Aerosmith without getting disgusted and switching to another CD. |
There is no one best place . It is often just a crap shoot ! I am refering to all types of music here .
I have some "remastered" CD's that are just as bad , or worse , than the originals ! And I have some that are actually better . You just have to try them out .
I try to purchase in the used market when ever possible so as not to loose too much on resale if the quality is not there . Some claim foriegn produced ones are better , at times .
Probably the best thing to do is what you are doing now .
Just move over to the music forum .
For what it is worth... I have had better success with adjusting my equipment . Using an all tube setup with the proper speakers has put me closer to the "listenable " goal that I seek for these lessor quality recordings . It is , for me , part of the synergy process .
Some call this coloration and others would scoff at anything that isn't "true" to the performance . But for me it is about musical enjoyment . I am by no means a purist or a tweaker .
Just my 2 cents .
Good luck |
Ive heard the same on foriegn recordings. Wish I could remember the link, bascially had listed in order of quality....something like German, Japanese, American etc. Not sure if there is anything to it. Maybe someone else here will chime in.
I agree about musical enjoyment rather than obsessing over ideal recordings. I have a lot of stuff that is pretty rough. Thats why I like tone/eq controls. |
Wanted to refresh this post on my journey...
Well..Undertow was right...hindsight is fun huh? I ended up selling the Stingray and the Rotel. I happened on a great deal on a brand new Mac 6900. Ive owned it for a year, and have to say im MUCH closer to what im after, speakers are still my wink link, but the Mac sings with whatever I throw at it. As somoene else mentioned it doesnt seem as picky as the other gear ive owned. Just big, warm, smooth sound, not the last word in resolution I suppose...but with my recordings thats not what I want. I want listenability and it delivers.
To be fair to the Stingray I think with the right speaker pairing I might have never parted with it. If if if...:)
I also upgraded to an Apollo. Compared to my old Yamaha....just more of everything is how i'd describe it. Very nice.
Oh and upgraded my ICs to Audioquest Jaguars.
Im much happier then I was in 06 when I orginally posted, just wanted to update in case someone was starting down the road I did and had the same question(s)...maybe this will help...:) |
Zamdrang
I am happy it worked out.
I could go on about why and how you came to your conclusion, however we all have to take some experimental risks in this hobby
Now if you want to work toward the ultimate level
Upgraded speaker crossovers
And room acoustics
Both will reduce your distortion and frequency balance issues especially with heavy rock at high levels, your equipment will out run your room and saturate your crossovers probably well before your ears or gear gives up.
If your perfectly happy enjoy and just leave it all alone, there is no end and always another level!
Good luck |
What a great thread. I too have been searching for a great rock system and the collective wisdom on this thread is more informative than pretty much everything else I've read. Zamdrang what's the latest assessment of the MA6900 and did you ever try other speakers? Would love to get and update in 2010. |
I revisited this old thread I started 10 years ago to refresh my memory on the great advice I got here. If any of you are your still lurking here...thank you! I still have the Mcintosh 6900, Apollo and Dali Royal Towers. About 2.5 years ago I moved to the Bay Area, housing what it is I didn't have space for my system and put it in storage. So since 2014 I have been using computer monitors for my musical fix.
I recently moved to another part of CA...where I could live in something other than a shoe box.... and was able to get my system setup again. After 2.5 years of not hearing my stereo... or any good stereo for that matter.... firing it up was amazing! It is interesting to see my comments from the very beginning and see the comparison to my opinion of my system today. Long story short... my problem on this quest was just as sogood51 and others pointed out at the time... I made the wrong speaker choice.
If anyone happens to read this thread due to starting a similar journey, and intent on a tube amp for rock, heed the advice here... speaker choice is critical.
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