yer comments about tuna wariabliity are spot-on - even for todays current "school" of digital tuna. that's why getting a highly-regarded species serviced and aligned, right from the get-go, is a great idea. i'd recommend ed hanlon of antenna performance specialties, bill ammons, from the fmtunerinfo.com site, or stephen sank, owner of talking dog transducers...
re: the sherwood micro cpu, there's a li'l info about this on the fmtunerinfo site, or ya can post a question to the yahoo tuna forum...
El: Even with "modern digital circuitry", there are still PLENTY of unit to unit variations that one has to deal with. I work on mass produced PLL based transceivers on a daily basis and see identical units that perform from one extreme to another.
Doug: I hear ya and agree. I've got a $15K signal generator at work and can do this myself but i've never gotten around to it. While part of the problem would be that i would like to have a service manual for each tuner that i have, the other part is that working on this stuff would be too much like work for me. The carpenter doesn't want to come home to a leaky roof and i don't want to have to take my tuners to work : )
As to the Sherwood, i've seen the info on the tuner website and even have an original review of it. I've talked to a few shops about these and their opinions are typically that they are VERY hard to keep running. I would imagine that this is like any other product though. That is, once you get it into the hands of someone that knows the in's and out's of it, it becomes a lot more manageable. Sean >
sean...Is it fair to say that the many PLL transcevers that you work on are all in the shop because they aren't working well? After you fix them, don't they all work great?
I work on brand new units right out of the box and notice these problems even more than on used units in for repair.
Having said that, i can align a brand new unit after the manufacturer's recommended period of warm up and when it comes back in after a few weeks or months of use, many of the parameters of operation have changed due to break-in. As such, i always recommend a "follow up visit" after an alignment to bring things back into spec once everything has fully settled in. This goes for new or used units as they all drift slightly after prolonged operation. As i've mentioned before, the effects of "component break-in" ARE measurable and this is not debatable as far as i'm concerned. Sean >
I think the Tandberg 3001/3001A are probably among the best (analog) tuners ever built, with stereo S/N ratio of 92db and capture ratio of 0.4. The Revox B760 is an excellent tuner as well, though it does not quite have the same level of performance as the Tandberg. While the latter has digital tuning, it is still an analog tuner since the signal is analog. I have both tuners and intend to keep them. Magnum Dynalab makes excellent tuners as well. However, we are finally at the dawn of digital FM broadcast and we are dealing with S/N ratio of 100 db and frequency response of 20-20kHz from these digital signals. Who needs to spend a few thousand dollars on analog tuners? To be sure, there can still be the argument that analog sound is warmer. The same debate like the proverbial CD vs vinyl or transistors vs. tubes. I am sold on the digtial FM broadcast. The perfectly clear, distortion free signals are something no analog tuners can ever deliver, not even the legendary Sequerra tuner.
From my experience practically anything that Don Scott modifies has the potential of being one of the top ten tuners. He has done two for me: the MDFT101A and the KENWOOD L-07T. In each of them he flushed out an unbeleiveable level of performance. He gave each their own unique character and presence in my system. I am an avid FM listener. It would be very hared to believe that a KT L-07T modified by Scott is not easily among the top five tuners.
I must say, that the KT 9900 is the best tuner I have ever heard. I had a couple of highly regarded ones, but this one stands out above all of them. I couldn't afford to keep it, and it was in such new like condition. I have a Luxman T 14 that Don Scott recommended, that is very vice sounding, that I will have modded soon.
Rhode + Schwarz, handmade ugly looking bitches from Germany. All handbuild to the highest possible degree. Price new in the 70 at about 17.000USD. That says it all. They did a version with tubes as well. It is so good that even my spectral CD Combination seams a joke against that staff. Here in Germay you get it rearly and mostly in poor Conditions starting from 1.500 to 4000 USD depending on the state . The second best i have heard is the Kenwood L-01T, or 03T Very good very rare.
It depends on the RF situation, For DXing the Yamaha T-85 or T-80 as well as the Onkyo 9090 series 2 are up to the task. For audio quality when a clean, un-compressed signal is available (A good rooftop is required as well). The Mac 77 0r 78, as well as the sansui TU-9900 come to mind. O-rod
Some mentioned the German "Ballempfaenger," for instance made by Rhode and Schwarz in the 70s. I wonder what the modern equivalent is? FM radio is still alive, and relay receivers might still be needed. Considering the high audio quality of German FM broadcasting, what is used now and what could, in principle, be purchased for home usage?
The Sansui 919 is everything they say it is on the tuner site mentioned above. Mine is not yet modified..but will be someday in the not too distant future.....it is amazing how something this old,,,can sound this good.
The Mcintosh MR-80 is commonly mistaken as a digital tuner because of its digital readout. It is in fact an analog tuner. The MR-80 has a wonderfull full sound with great stereo separation. It has the classic McIntosh sexy look and cost $2500 when new in 1980-1985. To build this tuner now would cost an exorbitant amout of money. And McIntosh still provides full service on this tuner.
I'm still using a Marantz 20 which I bought new in 1970. I had it updated about 10 years ago with new caps and rca. It was the transistor version of the 10b and was one of the last items designed by Saul Marantz team and built in USA before Marantz was sold to Superscope and made in Japan. I took it to a Yamaha technical test years ago when they came out with the T1 & T2, and their technicians were amazed by its performance. Its probably not a "best" today, but they don't build them like that anymore.
Of the dozen or two vintage tuners I own, I would have to say the Accuphase T100, the Kenwood 600T, and Sansui Tu919 provide the broadest soundstage and great sound from top to bottom. The Yamaha CT-7000 and McIntosh MR-80 are wonderful in their own right and beautiful to look at. Recently picked up a Sanyo Plus 35 recently that is a real sleeper, a great bargain for a very nice tuner. But for a real audiophile tuner I would choose the Accuphase T100 or T101 (FM only).
Top 10 is just too much, how about this, I will give you top 5
1.) REL Precedent This is the best tuner I have ever had in my life. It's mono, you will need a Multiplex Adaptor; but the sound is very musical, the HI is transparent and the resolution is just great. I prefer this tuner over Marantz 10B. However, you will one very lucky man if you can bump into a chance to get one. Many people have the money for it but just couldn't find it.
2.) Marantz 10B Of course, this one. Doesn't sound "the best" but hey, it is a legend and it is still considered "great sounding" Many for sale here and there.
3.) SCOTT 4310 The top of the line model of HH Scott back then. Better resolution then 10B but just not quite musical but this tuner is the most sensative one I have ever encountered! Details are everywhere ~! I still have one at home which I listen to seldomly.
4.) McIntosh MR-78 The best sounding McIntosh tuner I have heard. Better the MR-71 in sound quality, but harder to find. If you can name Marantz in one of the top 5, McIntosh will be right next to it =)
5.) Sequerra Model 1 Not too many sold, very hard to find. The only solid state tuner I think which is well worth collecting. This beauty doesn't sound as good as tube but hey it sounds the best among the same kind (solid state). I wanted to buy one but due to the low production of this model, the price is crazy. Last piece I saw was sold for $4750 USD ~! ~! ~! Marantz 10B x 2 =O
I'll throw in another vote for the Tandberg 3001A. The tuner sold for $2200 when new, and you can tell by the build and features. Another favorite is the Luxman T-117. Both are outstanding.
A modded tuner is definetelly better than a stock version. And many slippers will come in the first 10 if modded. Akai AT-V04 with a tube stage it is one, Sanyo T-55 with couple of easy mods on the audio section.
Kenwood KT-5020 modded by Mr. Joseph Chou from www.componentplus.us is definitelly in top 10 all time. After modifications it is creating vaccuum around it and is sounding better than any CD-player. Why? Because mr. Chou is knowing his profession: it is a tuner expert engineer, beeing part of the Japanese team that designed the famous KT-917. And is an audiophile. So, he knows very well what he is doing.
Please note that I have no affiliation of whatsoever with him, other than beeing a happy happy customer.
I have or have had all of the tuners generally mentioned as being amoung the best, including the FM tuner group's top 10. My top 5, in terms of their sound (I am an audiophile, not a DX'er) are as follows: #1 a highly modified Sansui TU 719 (yes, thats right, this is the best sounding unit I have encountered), #2 Tandberg 3001A, #3 a modified Sansui TU 9900, #4 Phillips AH 673/6731 and #5, the Accuphase T-100, I also have a T-101 and put the T-100 a little ahead of it. To my ears I would put the Kenwood L02T at # 7, behind the Sansui TUX1. I have had both a Mac MR77 and a MR78 and put all of the above mention substantially ahead of the Mac's in terms of sound.
Santaoncrack, That's a very interesting top 5 list that you've made. I'm curious what mods did you have and who did them for you for the TU-719 tuner to make it sound better than the rest, especially the more revered TU-X1 and TU-9900?
The Magnum Dynalab FT101 Etude taught me that Sereophile Recommended Components lists were to be approached with a huge crystal of salt. I bought a Fanfare rated 'A' by Stereophile and was disappointed, so Frank at Audio Outlet sent me the Etude (once rated class C, I believe). A-B comparison from a rooftop antenna through a high end splitter totally eliminated any doubt. It is by far my most used source over the Meridian 508 and, yes the LP12s.
Geor, I posted to this thread back on 10/11/2000 and I mentioned I was just venturing into tuners and ended with giving a "plug" for the Fanfare. In hindsight I am grateful I purchased that tuner as I have greatly enjoyed using a tuner since that time, but the Fanfare came and went; I agree, nothing special. Since that time I have owned a Yamaha T2, modified Pioneer, Kenwood 917 and currently I own a Luxman T-117.
Thanks Brian. General advice to all A'gonners (sic)...read all the posts. I happened upon this thread while researching an amp, but I just had to send a quick note because of my experience. I guess it was a response more to a certain magazine than anything else and a thanks to a hi end retailer in NY named Frank. It's a process that doesn't end until you're happy...I'll just leave that hanging.
The most interesting aspect in having these types of posts is how depending on the popularity of certain tuners, they will immediately experience a boost in their prices. I remember years ago when the founders of the by invitation only AudioMart magazine (the largest used audio magazine in the world at the time) were invited by The Absolute Sound's publisher, Harry Pearson, to write an article on pieces of hi-fi gear which would be considered to be classics in the future.
Virtually every piece of gear that they chose became an instant classic: gear like the Levinson ML-2's, SAE Mk VIB, Acrosound 20/20, Electro Research A75, Paragon E preamp, Krell KSA 50 etc.
Was it that these pieces of gear were so much better than the myriad others which had competed favorably with them? No. It had far more to do with the respect that TAS readers had for Walt and Lennice, and the fact that their choices were based on very good gear to begin with.
However, much of this equipment has appreciated exponentially, because of enthusiasts' "perceptions" of this gear, more than how good it actually was.
This is not to say that much of the gear chosen was not quite good in its day.
However, most of it is now ancient, and well in need of expensive servicing. Yet, that has not prevented many who've purchased such pieces of gear, from spending a small forture on them, or the subsequent services which the prior owners had managed to avoid.
The lesson here, is that there is quite a bit of excellent gear that has fallen underneath the radar of the would be classic hi-fi buyer, and as such still remains a bargain.
However, the moment that this gear starts getting "talked up" it will experience a similar rise in price, simply based on the perceptions of those who want a piece of gear that others have acknowledged to be a cut above the rest.
The following are my choices for top 10 top tuners. And I know that there are at least a hundred other tuners which can match or better these, however, it is my perception of these tuners (having even owned some of them), which dictates my suggestions here.
It is certainly nice to be able to dabble in something as enjoyable as used hi-end audio, without actually going broke in the process. Purchasing some lesser known but also popular tuners such as the Dyna FM-3 or Onkyo T 9090 (that while excellent don't have the same cache as a Day Sequerra or Marantz 10B) will get you sound quality that is nearly on par with the best, yet at a fraction of the cost.
These types of tuners are still considered to be a relative bargain -- especially if their cosmetic condition is less than perfect.
However, the prices of some of this more esoteric used gear have become stratospheric based on buyer's perceptions, meaning that our perceptions oftentimes outweigh our good common sense.
For example, there are the thifty, yet savvy amongst us who can put together a collection of very nice sounding and aesthetically pleasing tuners, for what one enthusiast might spend on a minted out Marantz 10B or Scott 4310.
However, is the person with either (or perhaps both) of the aforementioned tuners going to enjoy them more than the person who has 8 or 9 more affordable tuners? (Tuners capable of nearly equal sound quality?)
It would all depend on the people involved. However, in most cases, unless the people with the more expensive gear are well heeled, they may find themselves constantly at odds with the large sums of money that they've spent for the more esoteric gear -- especially when considering that it is decades old, and that repairing certain parts which go bad, may turn out to be impossible, simply because the parts are no longer available.
However, with the less expensive tuners, if they experience a similar failure, there's far less invested them, so the losses will be on a much smaller scale.
Once again, it all comes down to our perceptions of these pieces of gear -- which in essence all serve the same primary function -- that of listening -- and the secondary function of being aesetically pleasing.
Or is it the other way around?
Once again, that's a matter of perception too.
Marantz 10B Scott 4310 Sequerra FM Reference McIntosh MR71 Modafferi modded Revox B 760 Revox B 261 Tandberg 3001A Marantz 125 Naim NAT-01 Leak Troughline 2 w/Internal or external stereo decoder
I just purchased a Tandberg 3011A and think it's a great piece of gear. It's beautifully built and has a lush midrange reminscent of a well designed tube tuner.
I've been comparing it to my also recently acquired Revox B 261, as well as a Marantz 125 that I have had for some time, and find that it compares favorably with both. All are well designed and built quite well -- the Revox in particular is an absolute tank worthy of the "built like a Swiss watch" moniker.
Of course, my bargain of the Century tuner -- an NAD 402 with original box and manual for $58 -- also stands up well against this considerably more expensive competition. Then again the 402 was raved about by the British audio press back in the early 1990's for its impressive spec's and clean design.
As for the Onix BWD-1, I have never owned one, but have read many positive reviews in regard to it and look forward to acquiring one somewhere down the road.
As for the 3011A, they usually sell for between $225 and $450 depending on condition. The only problem that a number of people have mentioned is that the 8 presets for the tuner stations go bad after a time and need to be replaced. Unless that is, you don't care about having them fixed, since they don't appear to harm the manual tuning or sound of the 3011A in anyway.
The touch of the tuning nob on the 3011A bespeaks the quality of manufacturing that the Swedes are known for -- a heft and precision usually only found on very expensive gear.
The Sansui 9900 is a beautiful looking tuner. If you take inflation into account in the modern day, the 9900 would probably cost you a few thou to replace.
The TU-717 remains the real Sansui bargain though; a great sounding tuner which can be had for under $300 in excellent condition, and offers most of the aesthetics of the 9900.
From the '70's though, I'll still take my Marantz Model 125; a visual feast for both the eyes and ears -- especially with a blond cabinet.
I've never heard the Tandberg 3001A, but it appears to be almost visually identical to the 3011A that I bought a while back (with the exception of three extra buttons on the front of the unit and 8 gangs instead of 5).
What I do wonder is where the tuner.com site got the $2200 price tag for the 3001a from. An early 1980's review that I saw in regard to the 3001A and its matching amplifier listed the 3001A for $1195.
A full $500 more than the 3011A sold for during the same time period ($695). Given that the only real differences between the tuners appear to be 8 gang stages for the 3001A vs 5 gang stages for the 3011A (as well as a few extra buttons for the 3001A), it seems plausible that the ($1195) price for the 3001A is more accurate. However, if there was a significant difference in the exchange rate between the U.S. Dollar and Swedish Kroner, that might explain the nearly doubling of price at some time during their production.
Then again, this would have also accounted for a huge increase in the price of the 3011A as well -- from $695 to $1390.
Pioneer F-93, F-91 (Don't let anybody fool you, I can't hear the difference between the two, and I bet A/B testing would reveal that nobody else can either....) Pioneer TX-9800/9500 II. The 9800 prevails in rural settings and the 9500 II has better selectivity.
I have to agree with Geor about the Magnum Dynalab Étude. It is the single piece I own that I will never part with. It makes radio sound like a high end source. While I play LPs for serious listening, the tuner racks up the most miles in my system.
Pioneer TX-9500 II Pioneer TX-9800 (poorer shielding though) Pioneer F-93 (listen for yourself and make your own mind up, it was a Recommmended Stereophile component. TIC appears to not like it because a Tuner Guru chose not to try to align it.....once.....) Pioneer F-91 similar in some respects to the vintage H-K Citation, but in the end, a less refined version of the F-91. Listen first.
Does an Onkyo T-G10 tuner in true minty condition, with box manual and remote and under 100 hours usage(actually prob below 50 even) have some decent value?
For nice, pleasant sound, Magnum made/makes great tuners. In terms of looks, nothing beats the Day Sequerra tuners with the panoramic oscilloscope display.
But, for sheer RF tuning capability, decent sound and incredible build quality, to me, the ultimate tuner is the Toshiba/Aurex ST-910.
It's hard to say which is better unless you A/B them.I have 15 tuners.The SS are somewhat cloudy,tube are very transparent and 3-Dimensional.Bogen and Pilot seems to be my fav.If problem of drift and noise in changing station is fixed,they are excellent.
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