To those with multiple tables/arms/cartridges

Dear Lew, Some time ago I was shoping with my dad on those street markets in Serbia. My dad was always haggling. 'What do you ask for those tomadoes' he asked the farmer. The farmer: '50 cent per kilo sir'. My dad: 'you probably think that I am Rockefeller'. Have you any idea what only two of those Einstein 'cilinders' cost? You probably think that I am Rockefeller able to buy 4 of them.

Nandric, I did not know that Einstein made a phono stage with more than one phono circuit inside. That's a bit more difficult to achieve with tubes than with solid state. (The DSA units are solid state.) I have never seen that particular model of Einstein phono stage for sale or mentioned on the internet. The one we usually see is cylindrical in shape and accommodates exactly one tonearm/cartridge. But I guess you can double up on those cylinders and thereby gain additional inputs. Yes, I think you can run two cylinders off of one Einstein power supply module. This could be done to achieve balanced inputs for a single tonearm or to accommodate two tonearm/cartridges in SE mode. Am I correct (even though I also am no Einstein)?

Halcro, I agree that I too am unlikely to want to use the pitch controls, but the obsessive/compulsive part of me wants my TT101 to be working perfectly on all functions. Perhaps after I re-cap it, the pitch control will repair itself. Or Bill may have to replace the "Fast" switch, which he says he can do.

I've got a total of ten SC3042 chips on order, 5 from each of two different vendors in China. These are "clocks" for the servo, formally known as "624 MHz sine wave differential clock". I ordered from two sources to be more certain of getting the right part from at least one source. Assuming I end up with ten correct pieces, I will want to keep one for myself, but any and all Victor TT81 and 101 users are welcome to the remainder. It's probably best to contact me privately at my Yahoo email address. By the way, anyone can do what I did to find this part; I just Googled the part number "SC3042". You have to be willing to do business with a Chinese person whose command of English is limited (but then again, my command of Chinese is limited to zero).

Dear Lew, 'Your' Douglas Hurlburt seems to agree with
'Einstein who is no Einstein' regarding the inputs. Each
of his inputs has its own RIAA stage, gain, etc.
My Basis Exclusive has two separate and independant from
each other pres and both balanced and unbalanced inputs.

What great news about your TT-101.
I guess those old Victors just need current running through them regularly?

For what it's worth.......I never use the variable pitch/speed control on my TT-101.

Welcome to the club.

Last winter, I had a local entrepreneur visit my home. He is Douglas Hurlburt, founder and designer of DSA phono stages (models I and II). He brought both for a try-out in my system, even though I warned him in advance that I was unlikely to pay the high prices for his units. Doug turned out to be a fine gentleman, and I must say I have rarely if ever seen such quality of construction, which stems from the fact that he over-builds his units himself, and he is obviously an obsessive person. In any case, his phono II has provision for three separate tonearms, balanced and unbalanced inputs for each, individual R and C adjustments for each, and individual gain selection for each. All selections can be made from the front panel. No flashlights or mirrors needed. (Each tonearm is in fact feeding a completely separate RIAA stage, one from the others.) In short, he's thought of everything our little hearts could desire in a phono stage. And I might add that the sound was superb, good enough for me to consider putting aside my bias for tubes. At the time, the Phono II was going to market at around $15,000, which alas was too much for me. I think now he has slightly reduced the price. Highly recommended if you've got the financial capital.

Hi Lewm, I have a TT-101 that is working well, but I wouldn't mind picking up the IC from you in case it falls victim to a failure.

Downunder,
sometimes I am responsible for clearing the ground for some new small product ideas :-) In case of the UNIswitcher I asked Dertoneam some years ago if he could build such a switcher for my many tables and phono pres. The aim was not loosing any quality. So the UNIswitcher was born. I am using one with three inputs and I still have another unit for also three units which I don't use anymore (cause I sold two tables). my units have a very nice wooden box around it which I ordered at my High End carpenter. The wiring is fully silver which makes it not cheap.
I am not sure whether I will need it in the future or not. It makes Audio-life easier.

Dear Lew, to chose the name 'Einstein' for amps is typical
German 'modesty'. But ,uh, the reviews were 'fantastic',
while the producer is near the Dutch border. So I thought
what a chance to see how those are made. But alas: just one
connector for my 12 tonearms ??? (thanks Henry).
Well while I am primary interested in your Beveridge I may
be willing to part from my Kuzma Stabi Reference and,
as you know, only your Kenwood will fulfil all my wishes.
The poor thing can at last get the second tonearm on its
back side in this 'futuristic scenario'. Not to mention
your own dilemma regarding your sanity in connection
with the number of the TT's you own. BTW If I counted
them correctly you own 6 TT's, not 'only' 5.

Lewm/Nandric

Sure buying a separate phono stage for each table is the ultimate, but expensive option. This is about the best other option.
Transparency is excellent however I would be lying that there is no difference. But the differences are less than changing an interconnect. Just get the chassis off the small rubber feet as that does soften the sound a bit. Daniel uses his fav Ikeda silver wire with, wbt connectors and I had him put a captive output on it.

Not sure if Daniel makes these anymore now that he has his tonearm and headshell. Syntax would probably know more as I originally got the idea from him.

Lewm, I believe Daniel has made balanced before.

here is a couple of pics

uniselector1

uniselector2

So Nandric, Would say this Einstein is "no Einstein"?

Today I went to Bill Thalmann's shop to see for myself that my new baby TT101 is indeed working nearly perfectly. In fact, I never saw my KAB strobe hold speed so solidly. The only remaining defect is that the pitch control will not allow "Fast" adjustments. Bill says it's just the push-push switch needs cleaning or replacement. We are going ahead to replace all electrolytic capacitors in any case. Soooo, here I went to sell my DP80 and found no takers. I was trying to cut back from four TTs to three. In the midst of that, I found the QL10 on eBay and could not resist its orphan status, because the seller described it as "broken". Had it been described as "working", the price would have been high, and I would have resisted. In any event, I ended up winning the auction with a low bid, bought the TT101, thereby not only increasing my TT count to five but also adding the Victor 7045 tonearm in the same bargain. No need to tell me this is ridiculous, but it's cheap fun compared to a mistress or a Ferrari.

Altho it turns out I do not need one, I will soon have several NOS spare clock chips for the TT81 and TT101, for anyone out there who needs one. Coming from China, or so they say.

I would like more info on Dertonearm's TT switcher. Does he have a balanced tonearm input version?

I guess my intentions for using multiple tonearms (SME V) and cartridges, (Benz LPS and Benz Ruby-Z) are to split playing pristine vinyl on the better cartridge and the somewhat scratched flea market finds on the lesser cartridge,granted, the separation of quality is not that great between these two MC's, I guess I just feel better knowing that I am not trashing a top tier MC when I play the scratched records.

I all honesty, I have been contemplating getting an SME 12 inch arm to experiment on the turntable, a Transrotor Apollon TMD. This particular turntable has a three tonearm option, I opted for two. It is great knowing that I have the ability to experiment and tinker with other tonearm/MC combinations. Being a tinkerer, I guess it would make sense to have options that support the adventurous side of this hobby.
Ciao,
Audqioquest4life

A 'wonderful 4 input switcher'? When I informed by Einstein
about their balanced phono-stage I asked if they can put
an extra input for my two tonearms the designer refused to
do this with the argument that this will deteriorate the
performance. So I bought my 3th Basis Exclusive.

I have 4 tables, 4 additional arm wands and various headshells. The 4 tables are ready to be played at any time with my 3 input tube or 2 input ss phono stages, with front dial loading and gain adjustments which is extremely handy for playing different cartridges. All tied together with Dertonarms wonderful 4 input switcher each with ground post.

Cheers

Nandric, Finally I picked up my Beveridge amplifiers from Bill Thalmann the other day. Soon I will be able to report. I need some very long interconnects first. Bill had them for 8 months, so it is not all my fault that I have no listening results so far. I am going to mate them to my transmission line woofers that I myself built 40 years ago!!! Crossover from Bev speaker to woofer is 80Hz.

Dear Nandric and Don (sounds like a 70s rock duo), I owe you guys an apology. Last night I saw that each of you did send an email to my little used gmail account. I rarely even look over there, because I do not give that address out, ever. In fact, I don't know how you guys found it, unless it is linked via Audiogon. But to my knowledge, Audiogon is linked to my regular Yahoo account, which I look at every day. Anyway, I now will respond, but based on what I wrote yesterday, you would have an inkling of my intent. Perhaps Don and I missed the boat, as it were.

Nandric,
Yeah, I get that. In fact, one of my other tables has a replaceable headshell for that very purpose, and I have about 10 cartridges premounted on headshells that I change out once in a while just for giggles. that is certainly easier than going through a full install, and I dont think there is any huge loss in quality from a fixed headshell arm.

My advice to comrade Don was/is based on my knowledge that
Bill Thalman is/was involved by all Lew's TT's. But my interest in Lew's gear apply primary to those (huge) Beveridge speakers. If I would dare to ask I would but I am reluctant to do so.

I am not sure I got your email at all. I did have an email from Nikola in the last few months, and perhaps he can remind me if he asked me about selling my Denon DP80 in that exchange. Somehow I don't think that was the subject. But I have not changed my email address in forever.

Oddly enough, my Denon DP80 is up for sale on Audiogon, unless the ad expired already.

Hi Lewm,

Before I made the TT purchase, both I and Nikola tried to contact you. We must have the wrong or you have change you email address. It was thought that perhaps you had a Denon TT you might be willing to part with. Neither of us got a reply so we both felt perhaps you were not interested. Your above rely makes me wonder if you ever got our messages?

Regards,
Don

Dear Manitunc, 'Hearing a difference is not the same as making qualitative observations'? What purpose than have the carts comparisons? I don't believe that there are quantitative comparisons of any kind involved. Except the price difference of course. My experience is that an exceptional cart is immediately perceived but because there are also other 'exceptional carts' we want to know which one is better. There is no other way to decide then to compare them. Well your method with two identical tonearms and other 'identical' conditions is of course the best thinkable. But others my prefer to own two different tonearms. I think that both choices are, uh, 'legitimate'. Besides there are no certainties in our hobby as there are none in science.

nandric,
hearing a difference is not the same as making qualitive observations. Of course, gross differences can be heard, but I am referring to subtle ones. Is there a little more air, a little tighter bass, a little more clarity on the cymbals, a little more forward in the midrange. That is a lot easier to determine in 5 seconds between switching inputs, not so much after an hour, and the loss of concentration while changing and aligning a cartridge. If you can, more power to you. I can't. Not with any certainty anyway.

Don, If you are like me, you owe your lust for a Victor turntable to Halcro. At least I do. I recently bought a QL10 (TT101 in plinth cum UA7045 tonearm). It was initially not working, and I bought it in full knowledge that it was "broken", but today in the hands of Bill Thalmann, it works!!! Neither Bill nor I know why.

I think I am going to try the plinth-minimus approach with this one. It is well suited for that.

To all,

Thanks to my friend and comrade Nikola, I am now a 3 table owner. Actually the 2nd table is to be "put down in the the basement" as my comrade suggested. It is the UA-7045 arm and a TT-81 table. Let the party begin!

Hi Halco,

"However it's still a little tricky to follow the system to get them on this Forum?
I've been trying to teach Thuchan for 3 years now.....but even he has given up? :-)"

THREE YEARS, I might be dead by then!

Regards,
Don

Manitunc& Halcro, The obvious and precarious question related to our 'sound memory' is : if one can't hear the difference after, say, one hour , why bother? Anyway one can reach huge savings if this argument is, uh, sound.

Nandric,
Maybe you can change a cartridge and be ready to listen in 5 or 6 minutes, but I can't. Just taking off and putting on a cartridge takes me more time than that, without setting VTF and alignment. I mean, without your settings being perfect, there isnt much point in comparing. And then you have to actually listen for a while. For me, unless there is a great difference in the sound between the two, it takes me a while to hear the differences, especially when you are dealing with cartridges in the over $1000 range. It is the subtleties that I am listening for, not huge disparities between cartridges.

Dear Lew,

As this Thread is about turntables, arms and cartridges......pretty much anything analogue is relevant :-)

What great news about your procurement of the TT-101 Clock ICs.
Perhaps your tenacity will allow you to be the saviour of many of the 'non-working' TT-101s in existence?
Can't wait for the progress reports?

Dear Lew,

"The rain in Spain stays mainly on the plain".

Which is why I don't think I can go back to one turntable, even though I was satisfied with one turntable all my life until 4-5 years ago. You may as well ask Casanova why he needed so many women.

I think he's got it?...I really think he's got it!

As Thuchan, Manitunc and Nandric have mentioned.......
There are several issues and methods possible for the use of arms to compare various cartridges?
Manitunc correctly states that one turntable fitted with two or more identical arms...is the most valid way to compare different cartridges whilst Nandric points out that using an arm with interchangeable headshells....allows for the same result albeit a few minutes delay for the changing of shells, VTA and VTF.
Thuchan points out the difficulty of changing cartridges on arms with 'fixed' headshells.....and I can identify with him in cursing the Copperhead arm as THE most difficult example of these I have ever experienced.
Having said that.......the Copperhead (and Cobra) arm is also the greatest sounding arm with the widest variety of cartridges (especially MMs) I have ever heard.
So the answer for me and Thuchan.....is to decide on which cartridge to 'weld' onto the Copperhead and Cobra arms....and leave them there for a loooong time :-)

On the face of it.....Manitunc's solution of having 2 identical arms on the one turntable appears ideal, yet one of the vagaries of turntable-based playback, is that different cartridges perform better in different arms.
So hearing differences between cartridges in Manitunc's scenario....may be nothing more than a 'matching' issue?

To avoid some of these issues, I have found just over the last 3 years.......that having many tonearms, most with interchangeable headshells....mounted on two dissimilar (but good) turntables.....allows for a really good evaluation of arm and cartridge differences.

But the salient message that both Manitunc and Nandric posit.....is that the aural memory is simply not good enough to retain the really subtle minutiae of these differences over a time delay of even an hour?
Most of us think we do retain this expertise yet those who have multiple arms and cartridges will be the first to admit that we really don't?

Dear Thuchan,

In the age of modern computing loading images should be a user friendly one step approach directly from the computer, everything else is somehow like working at stone age.

I couldn't agree with you more.
Instead of all the young Turks spending their time developing mobile Apps for the chance of striking it rich?........if some of them could work out a 1 or 2 button way to upload photos from your computer directly to a site like this Forum......we'd all be better off?

Henry, OT, but it's your thread and you own a TT101: I have had no problem finding oodles of correct NOS ICs to replace the clock IC in the TT101. I am going to buy several from a vendor in China, in case my TT101 is in need. Bill Thalmann says this is the Achilles heel of the TT101, and he has never been able to find the chip for sale, but I think he limits his search to the USA.

Dear Henry, Perhaps I was thinking of the lyric from "I've grown accustomed to her face", Henry Higgins' lament from My Fair Lady:

"Her joys, her woes
Her highs, her lows
Are second nature to me now
Like breathing out and breathing in
I was serenely independent
And content (with one turntable) before we met
Surely I can always be that way again
And yet
I've grown accustomed to her look
Accustomed to her voice(s)
Accustomed to her face(s)."

Which is why I don't think I can go back to one turntable, even though I was satisfied with one turntable all my life until 4-5 years ago. You may as well ask Casanova why he needed so many women.

Dear Manitunc, This may be the easy way to compare two carts but I have no problem at all to compare two carts after each other on the same tonearm. I have no idea how
'long' our musical memory is but 5 -6 minutes needed to change the carts will not 'disturbe' our memory. That is exactly what I deed today. Comparing Miyabi Standard with the Kiseki Goldspot in my FR-64s. I have a pritty good idea what the differences are.

What easier way is there to compare cartridges than to mount two arms on one table with identical arms and play them both at the same time, switching between inputs to hear them each play the same album, seconds apart. Maybe some of you have a good enough memory to wait to change cartridges between plays, but not me. So, I can have arm to hold my main cartridge, and the other to hold any contenders for the throne. Or one stereo and one mono. Or one MM and the other MC. or whatever other foolishness my heart desires. And still take up only the space of one table.

Dear Lew, The right expression for the first part of your
thesis is the somehow conservative looking: 'the proudness
of ownership'. The justifying part is for the married omong
us and probably for the Weber's protestants and Marx Marxist.

Oh Lewm, come on you with many tables, arms and carts is asking such a question :-) of course it is about the combination of all, tables are part of the game. Or did I misread something?
Complexity is a rather complex issue... so most people tend reducing complexity which obviously makes life easier. The downside is you will never experience some "On Top Issues" like I did when experimenting with the Cooperhead and Cobra arm. As these arms are not really user friendly for changing carts they provide a pretty fine soundstage with a good cart like the Olympos or Goldfinger v2. It is so different you need to hear it.

Dear Halcro,
indeed loading images in a thread on this platform does need an introductionary course which not everyone will pass, you did succesfully and Syntax and some others. But there are still some who are left behind...
In the age of modern computing loading images should be a user friendly one step approach directly from the computer, everything else is somehow like working at stone age. I thought when Agon modernized the platform they would modernize this feature too - obviously not!
So I am left behind as a kind of dinosaurus. my choice was that all my system images are stored and displayed at a simple place...

You have some woes to discuss Lew?

Is this thread about the joys and woes of owning multiple turntables, or is it about justifying one's decision to own multiple turntables? The latter topic is a bore.

I realised of course....that the bronze casting was in sand, and that the 'positive' wood moulds I had.....were for creating the 'negative' moulds in the sand.
Here is a video of the casting process which is very interesting.
Machining was not required for my pods as they were filled, sanded and painted in an automotive shop.

Don,
To see how to post 'actual pictures' on A'Gon.....click on the 'markup tags' at the bottom of the 'Your response' box.
The picture you want to post can't just be directly from your computer library.
It needs a Web address (ie...its own url).
To give it one....you need to upload your computer photos to a photo-sharing Website like Picassa or many others. They are free.

However it's still a little tricky to follow the system to get them on this Forum?
I've been trying to teach Thuchan for 3 years now.....but even he has given up? :-)

Regards
Henry

Hi Don,

Thanks for the kind words :-)
Here is a different view of the TT-81 and here is another.
Yes....I still have the wood moulds that the foundry made from my design drawings. How the wood doesn't catch fire with the molten bronze I don't understand?
In any case.....the wood moulds are quite light (less than a kilo)...and here and here are the resulting armpods in rough and finished states.

I wish you luck in finding your Victor turntable. The TT-81 is not so difficult to find...and is very good.
The TT-101....in good working order....is almost a mythical creature.
Just ask Banquo and Lewm? :-(

Hey, I just noticed a (edit my post) notice at the bottom of my latest post! Perhaps something new from Audiogon?
Now, if we could only post actual pictures!

Hi Halco,

I can not stop looking at your TT-101 photo. What an amazing set-up. If you lived somewhere in the US, I would be asking you about those armpods. Hell, I'll ask anyway!
You say you had them cast. Was this done at a foundry using molds that you made? If so, do you still have the molds?
Before I ask you "the" big question, how about telling me how much the mold weighed.
I ask because I'm hunting down a DD Turntable,hopefully a TT-101 but would settle for a TT-81 if the price was right.
I already have a granite slab cut for it all to sit on. Just waiting for the right one to come along.
Regards,
Don

Sunnyboy1956,
mine too! congrats. Oh it was you, sorry I get so many questions, sometimes when I do not know the person I oversee, sorry.
can you send me again. Thanks.

Thuchan
"Sunnyboy1956 (btw a very good year)..."
Obviously , the year of my birth.. :-)
Had sent you a PM regarding the Wavacs sometime back.
Apologies to the OP for the digression and taking the this OT, but we may be on to something as momentous and innocuous as MF's SRA:
MTA - Mirth Tracking Angle
Have a great weekend
Pradeep

Welcome Don,
We always enjoy your contributions.
Regards
Henry

Hello all,

I have just found this very interesting thread and discovered many familiar prior acquaintances.
Hi Halco, Syntax, Pryso, my comrade Nadric, Lewn, Sonnyboy 1956, The Professor (Timeltel), Thuchan, and others. Do I smell muntinity?
I hope I'm welcomed aboard. Reads like this could be quite a fun/informative thread. Already on my 2nd reread!

Regards,
Don

Nandric, try this Blakean riddle on for size:

The truth can never be told so as to be understood, and not be believed.

Translated into audio: if the music moves you, the system does, too. That's a truth known to all music lovers if not all audiophiles.

Timeltel, your reference to Pilgrim is right on. As a sometime mountain climber, I usually find the peaks to be the least interesting part of the climb.

Regards, Halcro: Good to hear you're enjoying the Frankencart. If given a name, as is sometimes done, Serendipity would be appropriate. Like John Bunyan's hero Pilgrim, some wander, hoping for a certain destination but meanwhile find the way strewn with lessons.

Fifteen or so varieties of headshells here, just an enthusiast. If audio aficionados were to be described as univores/omnivores----

Peace,