kw13--
i heard the new jmlab focal scala at the last ces show in las vegas,with boulder electronics-- fantastic sound!
a few years ago i owned the nova utopia be,(and progressed to the grand utopia be later on), so i'm familiar with jmlab's sound and appraoch. they have certainly pushed the envelope with their latest offerings.... but than there's tidal, which , in my expereince, has gone further then most speakers out there in reproducing sound ever so accurately, both in timber and texture.again ,just my prospective..... |
Kclone,
Could you elborate how you moved from our prior system (which included Scala?) to Piano? I believe Scala and Piano Classic prices are similar? |
Ozy,
Yes fair comment as the sound I heard last night is now a benchmark and etched permanently. However so was the Focal Scala sound.
Kclone,
Unfortunately it's the Piano Diacera. I'm glad you made these comments, although I wonder how the classic (cheapest in the range) could outperform others for such wide music genre as pop/rock.
I am glad though that I came across this post and gained some insight into fine speakers. However not often have I listened to speakers as expensive as Contriva - maybe never. So that it redefines a few boundaries is not unexpected. What is has to stand up to now are further listening against peer speakers (in price terms). |
Kw13, I own the Piano Classic. Do you know if the dealer has the Piano Cera coming or the Classic? From what I understand, at least from Jorn from Tidal, The Piano Classic may be a better fit for pop/rock. Based on the cd's you brought, it seems like that is you music preferences anyway. I will admit, I wasn't enamored with mine at first. I thought to myself, I paid that much money for speakers and at the time, my WLM La Scala system was the better system in my house. The Piano's forced my to deal with the rest of my chain including speaker positioning. After a few changes, or should I say a lot of changes(and Money) the Piano's now are draw dropping good. Just amazing really. Such balance, warmth, detail, air, extension, ect.. it's all there. I can put on some crappy Romones recording, and although it will never morph into sounding as good as the good recordings in my collection, it will sound better than I have ever heard the Romones sound before. Good luck. |
kw13----
the tidal speakers are indeed quite amazing!. glad you had the chance to listen to them with familiar material.price and perceptions are one thing and bang for the buck is totally another. i'll be the last one to advise you or others how to spent their hard- earned money, but what you exprienced at your bangkok tidal dealer, is the real thing....
undoubtedly, you'll be able to find some excellent , well made speakers under $30k, but you'll always question and compare them to the tidals....and that , to me, is the bottom line....just my $0.02.... |
Drove down to Tidal dealer today. A rather "outback" kind of place in Bangkok, well away from the recent political clashes in upper class shopping malls. For speakers that carry such a hefty price this dealer seems out of place. As we entered the building, we realized it's basically a townhouse with a couple of sound rooms one still under construction. The room housing Contriva Diacera was upstairs, and we had to walk past boxes and a kitchen and some more boxes before getting there. Inside, we saw a pair of rather unobtrusive pair of black shinny speakers. Sandwiched between them was a handsome Esoteric X-03 sitting on top of a McIntosh integrated amp. Pairing each speaker was a 1201 McIntosh monobloc. Linking all these items were massive cables, one of which was not too different in thickness to my own biceps (of which I'm rather proud of with regular workout). We brought 3 discs with us: Carpenters Reflections (a Blue Spec disc made in Japan), Dr Hook Greatest Hits (very ordinary disc with some tracks as flat as they come), and Dire Straits Brothers In Arms 20th Anniversay Edition SACD. Without as much as a conversation or even a quick marvel at the gears on display I passed Carpenters over to the polite dealer. He handed over the remote and off we went.
In summary:
I weep now that I'm back home trying to re-create any semblance of the sound we heard at the dealership with my Cremona M + Naim Electronics + Marantz SA7-S1.
Clearly every component (barring perhaps disc spinner) is outclassed. I suspect cables were not a small contribution to the dealer's sound. And the totality of the gains was impressive.
My wife (who clearly has superior hearing) immediately said after 1 track of Carpenters that this music was emotional. Kind of odd (not), since Tidal's slogan is "we build emotion", of which she had no idea as I dragged her along last minute. I was massively impressed too with this track (I Need To Be In Love). For me emotions are often lost and so a waste there of Contriva's talent. What stood out instead for me was the lucid vocal so natural and dominant yet without crowding out everything else that was there, which was a lot - particularly the gorgeous piano notes with each strike clearly audible and wonderful together with powerful but coarse drum beats far from polite and so close to what must be live sound. However what impressed me most was Dr Hook's Sylvia's Mother, as I was expecting next to nothing from this flattest of flat discs. My god, the layers of sound that I heard! The horn-like echos (akin to what you often hear in a Western movie during a gun fight) that went far left and so far right all across the room that I had barely noticed before became very meaningful 3-D special effects. I felt for some odd reason like I was sitting by a lake on another Dr Hook's track surrounded by forest trees. Maybe the emotion did get me. On Dire Straits, So Far Away, the beats were astounding on the metal discs. I could go on and on...
Overall conclusion:
We also listened to Carpenters and Dire Straits on Scala. Perhaps I'm artificial, as I like analytical sound and I adore scale, of which Scala created a larger musical landscape. My wife however had no doubt Contriva was her pick. On Dire Straits, I would have to give it to Contriva, particularly track 9 Brothers In Arms. The thunder at the start of the track that I test almost on all systems I audition was truly thunderous and there was no equal that I could remember. As amazing as these speakers were, I would most likely opt for Scala but am wary of the different electronics used - and I believe the Chord gears that partnered Scala were more expensive. The more realistic price of Scala certainly plays a part. But if not anything, I think this audition reminds me that perhaps I could up my electronics before getting in line for my final pair of speakers. My gears at home no matter how hard I crank up does not produce what I heard and shows up significant fidelity weaknesses. I will also head back to listen to Piano in a couple of months when it arrives. At a more sensible price, you never know... |
OK Tpreaves, Ask the speaker to appoint distributor why it is this expensive?
I have a friend in Russia distributor who told me that the benefits are enormous.
Done good choice.Enjoy |
It is quite difficult to buy any decent speaker for below $30k I'm pretty damn sure most folks could find a decent speaker for less than $30K,but what do I know. |
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Kw13, sorry but I stick with my comments. Evidently you have not bought speakers recently. It is quite difficult to buy any decent speaker for below $30k and there are many above $100k.
Your being ticked off and $3 will buy a cup of coffee. I can understand both your reaction as well as why the price is high, but I can do nothing about either. |
Karelfd,
Thanks for your comments. I will certainly listen to them, as long as they are available for audition, as this will be freee. Thailand is listed as a location where they have distribution, and I hope they have stock.
Tbg,
Not sure what planet you're on. Much more expensive speakers? Much more than, what, 40-80K a pair? I know they exist but it's almost scandalous to suggest these prices are reasonable just because some other speakers ask for more. No wonder there are no reviews or marketing for these speakers, since they will only appeal to an absolute tiny fraction of the audiophile market, let alone general population of music lovers. For 80K, I could almost buy my dream car Nissan GTR, or a couple of BMW convertibles.
Mike,
That is great endorsement. If you earn a million+ a year and have no kids to support that would make sense. Otherwise I hope you're not sacrificing beyond sanity for a hobby.
Sorry I'm obviously ticked off as this price is out of reach for now even if I do find them worth it. |
The first time I heard them I didnt even know the name, of course no reviews and I opened the first Tidal thread here in Audiogon two years ago! I knew I had to buy this speaker from the very first minutes of my first audition!
Kind Regards,
Mike |
Kw13, once you're caught there is no going back. And that has nothing to do with having read threads like this one on the subject. I take my own case as an example, but you can also read a number of other people's stories that didn't even know the name until they heard them for the first time, immediately fell for them and were prepared to break the bank to get them in their system as soon as possible.
The unfortunate bit in that last statement is the "didn't even know the name", unfortunate for an interested audiophile, that is. As you correctly pointed out, there are very few reviews. John Potis's review on the Piano (classic) on 6moons probably was the first major one. In their native Germany, there are none at all until this day. Let's just assume this has nothing to do with systematically ignoring the brand for fear it might ravage some existing elite (well...) but only with inexistent advertisement budget (I've seen one ad by the dealer and I do read a lot) and extremely thin dealer network in Germany. As pointed out by the previous posters, these speakers are in fact made on order. In any case, that is why it is so important that at least these "love fest" threads exist: grassroots information upon which everyone can then either continue to read, search, attend show performances, audition ... or not (this is not religion, we're not here to convert anyone).
Sadly, the content of these threads must also tell you something about prices that are to be expected. Let's be realistic, to achieve Tidal's quality benchmarks in terms of sonics and build quality, research, custom made parts, craftsmanship all have a price ticket. Very unfortunate for all of us, rest assured I couldn' t agree more, but we all know other examples of that. Outside of Germany, add shipment cost, distributor's (healthy) margins and their advertisement outlay. And since there is nothing to be found in the used market ...
Will these speakers be bettered as you suspect? Well, other people already have elected another own best anyway, and Tidal aficionados (or cognoscenti, if you like ;^)) may find future Tidal series to outshine today's one day. As per today however, you have stated the most important thing: find a way to hear them and be the judge yourself. Warning: you may find yourself wanting to have some and even relativize the price (in all honesty, I've heard more expensive speakers that didn't stand a chance).
Hope you find an opportunity to listen soon!
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Kw13, there is no answer to your question. Obviously, you have to make your own decision, but hearing them is a must.
They were a major stretch financially for me, but I heard them. If you look at the workmanship, the drivers and other components and realize that they have maintained effortless and extended sound using drivers that have many excellent characteristics but a notorious "ceramic driver sound" and a cabinet that just does not vibrate, you will reassess your "unreasonable" cost concern.
Listen to them as well as the many much more expensive speakers, and you will buy them. |
This thread sounds like a love fest :)
As good as these speakers are (if indeed the case as I have not seen any major reviews), they will be bettered down the line as is always the case just as they are now dethroning some other speakers.
Having got caught up a little in this "hype", I am trying to find a way to hear them. But they are unsightly expensive! If these are to be a last pair of speakers it might be worth the effort to save - but will take a few years... Why can't they bring these down to more reasonable level? |
..as a recent buyer of a pair of contriva diacera-se speakers, i was told, when i ordered my pair, that it would take from 4-5 months to take delivery as they are made individually when ordered.that was 2 months ago.that being said i received an email a few days ago that informed me that mine would be arriving in about '3-6'weeks..as good as these speakers are the wait is worth it. |
Lucky boy, small company and large demand. |
I suppose very high demand! |
Seems like all of you had to wait to take delivery of the speakers. What is the reason?
Thanks, |
Kclone I suppose you are right, anticipation is part of the story but..... I can say I enjoy it!:)
tbg no clue, I hope I have them by the end of July but this is just my estimation!
Have a good day,
Mike |
Argyro, I agree with Kclone about all of us going through the wait. I should also say that these speakers are so revealing that you may have another adjustment period to come as you cull through your equipment finding the weak links.
Do you have a date certain for getting your Tidals? |
Sorry Argyro, you get to suffer the wait like the rest of us. We all had to do it. Enjoy that anticipation feeling. :) |
Sorry Argyro, but I just dropped a sub in the system a couple of days ago so I am still working on repositioning. I may not have to do anything at all, but either way I will post my measurements/position in the room. |
Is everybody listening to their speakers? Come on guys, feel with me, anticipation is the worst feeling! lol |
I would like the Tidal Piano owners to please comment on their speaker set up, distances from front-side walls, with each other, and how that affected their sound! Hope I am not asking much....:-)
Happy listening,
Mike |
80% Classical and Jazz and 20% classic rock and others! |
I'd say I listen at 75-80. Do you have a preference in music or do you listen to a lot of genre's? |
Kclone the size of my room right now is 4x5 m2 (dedicated) but soon I will be moving to a treared-dedicated 8x6! :)
I am usually listening at 85-90 db average and very few times around 100 average (110 peaks). Hope the piano can easily reach such SPL's.
Happy listening Everyone!
Mike |
Mike, just curious. What is the size of your room? |
Mike, that's what I have! Tidal's premium finishes are unbelievable but as they don't impact performance, I have a hard time recommending them for the upcharge required. At any rate, Tidal's piano black is by far the best I have ever seen. None of those nasty swirl marks that are so common in the industry. |
Linkster, the standard Piano black! |
Yes, I waited a long time, and it was worth the wait. |
Be patient Mike, in the end the wait will be well worth it! BTW, what finish did you select? |
Guys thanks very much for the insightful answers!
I just placed my order! :) My stomach is "aching" from the excitement!
I once again listened to the Contrivas, it is just not normal what these speakers can do! You could EASILY differentiate each recording from each other and it sounded so scarily real!
Time passes slowly....:)
Mike |
Mike, since I was the first to order the Piano Cera (although not the first to take delivery), I received mine with 500 hours on it (i.e., already broken-in) and therefore not qualified to offer anything concerning break-in. It was also a seven month wait, during which time Tidal decided to incorporate variogain/terminal and tweeter adjustability features. My experience should not be typical for buyers of the Piano Cera, or any other Tidal product for that matter. I do think you would receive them faster by ordering the piano black finish though. |
Hi Mike. I have the Piano Classic, which I assume is somewhat similar to the Cera. From my experience, it takes at least 500 hours before they come into their own. They will sound good up until that time, but they kind of take on a new life after that. The other fun thing is any changes made are really noticalbe. I have changed all of my components, cables, placement, ect.. to get the most of the Tidal's. What I learned is, there does't really seem to be a "getting the most" out of them. Their potential will be as good as the room and upstream stuff allow. |
Hi Linkster!
Thanks for your kind words (I accidentally missed before)!
Yes, I felt I needed to clarify this as it could be very confusing for current and future Tidal owners!
How long did it take for your speaker to arrive? Can you please comment on the break-in period?
Regards,
Mike |
Mike, thanks for clarifying that as there is no SE option for the Piano series loudspeakers (each version has its own customized crossover). |
Very soon, Argyro will be a member of the Tidal owners family and I am next!!!! For all those people that do not have extensive listening experience with Tidal I have one thing to say.
Tidal speakers are the end of the road. After that, you better save money for amplifiers because you will never change speakers again... I definitely won't... |
Thanks Kclone, I am sure I made the best decision I have ever made in this hobby. I am that sure...;)
Just to clarify something when I talk about a Piano Cera SE, I mean that I will use a Flow cable from the binding posts to the crossover and not the complete internal wiring of the speaker.
Cant wait! |
Congrats Argyro. Now is he hardest part for you, I mean you got a taste the Tidals and now you have all of this waiting a head of you. Just know it is darn worth it. |
Life is very strange with the Tidals. They are so revealing that you notice when your amp has been on long enough, when you need to await cables that you have moved around to settle, and, of course, when everything is just right and you have no choice but to listen to album after album. To never be able to find the speaker's compromises at fault is a rare experience. |
Thanks Karelfd!
A dream comes true, I had started losing hope in this hobby until I came across the Tidals! They just stand so far away from any competition.
I will be driving with my Wavac MD-805m. If those Watts are enough, I am sure its going to be a match made in heaven! Pure Bliss!
Thanks again! :) |
Argyro, welcome to the Piano Cera owner's club, presently a very small but discriminating group! BTW, did you ever have a chance to listen to the Piano Diacera? |
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Today I am ordering the Piano Cera SE, with Argento Flow cabling inside. I cannot listen to ANYTHING else anymore!!!
Cant wait! |
Yes, I too was at the show and heard the Tidal room.
It was super. Timbre, coherence, imaging, musicality.
Best sound at the show! |
Still at Munich due to the volcano problem but cannot believe the sound I heard yesterday in the Tidal room! The most amazing sound I gave heard, amazing cohereness and timbre!!! So so natural sound!! |
Alectiong, yes, I have been meaning to update my system pictures. I would warn you about hearing these speakers-do so only if you are ready to invest in them. It was the best audio decision I ever made. |
Wow Karelfd, I better go listen to the Tidal.
Tbg, could you share pics of your new speakers?
Alec |
