Thinking about getting into vinyl again...

This Kiko guy thinks he has mental telepathy. He seems convinced that he knows what my own experiences and thought processes are....

Well Abrew,
Coming from a person that doesn't know the difference between a LINE stage and a PHONO stage, who knows?
Let me ask you a question, which one did you ended up buying? The Pro-ject Carbon, the Debut III, the RP3, RP6, Traveler?
Please give us all a break!
And yet you have failed once again to explain yourself in terms of the SOUND qualities of the table and not on looks. I rest my case.

Jump on the LP!!

This will be my last post on this thread simply because I find it unfair for others to be caught in the middle of this unfortunate debate.

My point Abrew19:
Music is a simple matter of preferences; obtaining the best ancillary synergy you can affort in order to satisfy your music taste. Expensive parts or engineering DOES NOT guarantee GOOD SOUND!

In my opinion (as well as the opinion of hundred of thousands of music lovers around the world), there is nothing wrong with either VPI, Rega, or any other turntable manufacturer. In fact, EVERY turntable manufacturer will find ways to reduce cost in order to mass produce their product. Do a little research and take a look at the VPI Traveler V1 vs V2:

The logo is no longer a nice badge on the front, but silk screened on the top of the table, the feet are no longer made out of metal with rubber tips, but now all rubber, the tonearm plate release knob is no longer in a cut out, but has been redesigned so a cut out no longer exist, the tonearm cable din plug no longer has a metal housing but a plastic one, the record mat has been changed, the power supply is no longer on the table w/ an IEC connector, there is now an external switching power supply which seems now connected with a barrel connector, the power switch is now this black thing on the top of the table vs a nice metal button on the side from the original, the housing of the motor is now a longer lower profile affair on the bottom vs the deeper more squared box of the first generation.

Why all these changes? To improve profitability. Anyone could interpret these moves as cheaping out correct? Does it mean that now the V2 sounds worse? HECK NO Abrew19! Guess what? It still sounds superb!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cheaper construction for sure, but still sounds great, you get the point?

Now to debate your STATEMENT on Rega tables:
"There is not much to them to justify their price. Everything is pretty crude. Something that just about anybody could make in their garage with some basic tools".

There is A LOT to them to MORE than justify their price. Just the RB303 alone retails for $595.00. To be able to sell the RP3 for $895.00 baffles the mind of MANY music lovers!!!! BTW, I would like to see you come up with a similar sounding product using basic tools from your garage.

"Rega cheaps out on the design and claims low mass, hi rigidity is superior .... then their customers are forced to implement their own high mass isolation techniques (at their own expense) to fill in the gap".

As I explained to you earlier, Rega DOES NOT cheap out on design. On the contrary, Rega's revolutionary design is BASED on low mass and rigidity. Do yourself a favor and research the NAIAD and then tell me if Rega cheaps out!

Also, I explained to you that MANY aftermarket products create an effective environment of high absorption around turntables to drain away the destructive mechanical energy and change it to benign thermal energy.

It will be ignorant to believe that this problem is unique to Rega tables. Every turntable (including VPI) WILL greatly benefit from sitting on top of a dedicated isolation platform.

"It's 3 pieces of glass glued together man! No machining required. Good engineering to find a way to cut corners from multiple layers of machined metal. They save a lot here. Odds are they source the motors (and the guts to the power supply) from China for dirt cheap... any takers?
As for their custom made skeletal plinth don't get me started".

No machinig required to cut the glass? No engineering necessary to design/produce the double brace skeltal plinth? Who cares if they source the motors from China of Taiwan as long as it works!

In the words of Roy Gandy:
“The biggest problem is that nothing is perfect. There is no such thing as an arm that won’t vibrate itself, that won’t have its own resonances. When the arm moves across the record, which it must do because the groove is an inward-leading spiral, when it moves, its bearings will have some friction which will put a load on the stylus which will then give a slightly less than perfect transcription of the vibration in the record. If the bearings themselves move, which most do, if the arm then moves with them, then it won’t be picking up all the vibration that is in the groove. It’s the lack of perfection in this chain that we must design against. We are trying our best to counter these imperfections which all interact in a very complex series of ways.”

Like I've said many times before Abrew19, in the end there is no right or wrong, it's just a matter of taste.

In closing:
First, I am NOT stating that Rega is "better" than others, just stating that, TO MY EARS, it sounds better than many other TTs I've owned and/or auditioned.
Second, this is MY PERSONAL OPINION and in no way am I trying to persuade you (or others) otherwise.
Last, sometimes we just have to agree to disagree.

However, to STATE that Rega cheaps out compared to VPI (or any other turntable manufacturer) would be negligent when in fact it is simply just another tried and proved approach to turntable engineering.

SOUND Abrew19, SOUND is what matters the MOST. PEOPLE forget about everything else when the SOUND is RIGHT!

Trully no hard feelings Abrew19.

Why stop posting in this thread. I am loving the back and forth. Each of you have different views and are expressing them without personal attacks. That's what forums are all about, right?

As for the Rega, to me it's a great deal if you like their sound. It didnt' do it for me and I kept looking. I bought my first ever piece of equipment without listening...the Basis 1400 with Basis 300 arm, Basis weight and the Benz Glider cart with Heed phono stage Quasar preamp.

Johnny just came to install the TT, phono pre and Vandy Treo's. HOLY CRAP. What a sound. My digital is nice sounding and the Vandy's aren't even close to being broken in, but man do they sound great out of the box. Well the Basis is a demo (new old stock kind of deal I guess). I am so glad I got it. I am in love with the relaxed, but detailed presentation. Even this unit needs breaking in, but the mids are lush and relaxed. Very detailed and the bass is tuneful. I heard the differences in notes. The micro and macro dynamics are awesome. I can tell that once broken in, it will most probably blow me away a to how good this turntable set up will sound. It's already sooo much better than any digital I've ever heard and I've heard the 50k plus systems that are out there as I have been visiting every high end shop on the east coast during my travels as I knew I was getting a new system.

I will save up for the Vector arm. I spoke with AJ at Basis about upgrades for the table and he said that I can upgrade the bearing or a few other things, but nothing is worth it until I upgrade the arm to the Vector. That's what I'll save up for my next analog upgrade.

I was a smart shopper and I won't say what I paid for all of this, but I didn't go over my budget and all the other tables I was listening to (new and used) didn't sound this good to my ears. I would love to hear my set up vs the Linn that I heard in DC or the Ayre (DPS) Ortifon set up I also heard down there. Both were wayyyy above the 5k mark,not the 1500k mark, but I bet my systems is close enough for my ears. Just glad I found so many cool albums I never knew I had. Happy camper here.

Glad it worked out for you, Ct. A knowledgeable dealer, as they say, is beyond the price of rubies.

Terry, you are correct. I had been looking for used tables or demos. I love my dealer as he's walked me through everything. He just wants me to have the best system I can afford. More than a few times he talked me out of spending more on components. John just gets it. I have been to so many dealers in the last 8 months or so and I only trust a small handful. I won't go into the names, but either they seemed dishonest or clueless or both.

I spoke directly to AJ at Basis before I made the purchase and he said that John was a great guy to deal with (I already knew that though). He told me to stay away from used tables as they rarely are in good shape. he said they do their best to fix broken tables, but it's not always easy or sometimes they just can't. I've never wanted to buy a table or CD transport used as they are moving parts and you never know if they've been taken care of properly. Were they stored correctly or moved correctly. As for listening, it's the most important thing. Even though I never heard the Basis, I trusted Johnny because he knows my ear and he knows my system. It worked. If I didn't like the Basis, he would have taken it back and helped me find the right table. I will also have to say this Heed Quasar phono is as good as the EAR or any other phono I've heard recently. It's an absolute steal at the price and I don't even have the separate power supply for it yet. I don't even know anyone other than Audio Connections who sells the Heed product line(I'm sure there are a few though). It's very special for under 1k and it has MC and MM stages.

"Line" stage was a typo. Wow, this is getting too weird for me. Feel like I'm being stalked a little. I've decided I'm not OCD enough to belong on this forum.

Ok so my last post was knee-jerk, I'll apologize for that. Rega's are good. I just don't see 3k in the RP8 vs the Classic 1. You're right, we can agree to disagree, with no hard feelings. It's all good. I guess this site isn't so bad after all. Lol

Abrew, it's all good man. We are talking about personal preferences here. None of us are right and none wrong. All ears and rooms are different. It's not really OCD. It's a fun hobby and should always be that way.

My bad as well for attacking you with the "line" stage comment Abrew.
Uncalled for man.
All good from this end with no hard feelings!

See, we all get upset when folks don't agree with our view on things or they dont' like what we own. In the end, it's only about what each person hears. It's the equipment, it's the room, it's the ear. Just so many things that change the sound we all hear.

Enjoy your new system ct. Let us know when it has broken in a bit more and share your findings.
Steve

Thanks Steve. It's getting better and better. I can't for the TT weight to be shipped. That's going to tighten up the bass I"m sure. I'm surprised that I love it so much already. It's such a great system for me in my room. I'm loving it. It just sounds right and even though I can't tap my foot anymore (MS), I can feel the rhythm and pace of the music like no ones business.