Happy Friday! All
Thiel Owners
Guys-
I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
13,512 responses Add your response
@jafant I would be very surprised if your late production SEs did not have the FST boards. Early units might have Lexington boards, Rob Gillum might be the only person who knows. Read the following knowing that I am an insane person: If you’re going to upgrade FST boards, my advice is pretty much replace everything. Well, on an extreme budget you might just upgrade the resistors to Mills. But the parts quality is disappointing on the FSTs. The Clarity SAs are good but even those are outpaced by the newer CSAs. For units with Lexington boards, the parts quality is higher (those Clarity coax feed caps are the best OEM coax feeds regardless of standard or SE version, or Lexington or FST). On a budget, you might just upgrade the resistors and feed caps. Standard CS2.4 owners with Lexington boards could have something notably better than the SE version with just those “simple” changes. Even reaching higher, there are several coils and a cap or three that are worth salvaging. My extreme makeover has 3/5 coils and one bypass cap that are equivalent to Lexington. But I retained nothing whatsoever from the FST boards, not even the hookup wire and binding posts. |
Hi Jafant, It appears you misread my post. I vastly prefer my Tom Thiel designed boards over the FSTs. And it’s been about 15 years since I’ve heard the 2.4s with Lexington boards but, other than the Clarity SAs in the coax feeds, I would take the Lexington over FST on parts quality. In addition to the loose coil windings, the FST had polyester caps rather than polypropylene. Regardless of that, I consider Thiels to be transparent in general. |
Just to clarify for our readers - Beetle's 2.4SEs were late production with FST crossovers which proved to be inferior in some ways to the earlier Lexington units. The coils were not well wound and the wire is CDA102, one step down from Thiel's traditional CDA101 best of form. Otherwise, the FST passive components were CYC clones of the usual best of form units that Thiel had used. I have heard conflicting reports of when and how these Chinese units came about, but my direct comparison between FST and Thiel came out with Thiel sounding smoother, more open and relaxed and delicate, with the FST sounding more etched, crisp and clear. Although both presentations were valid, they did not produce a similar voice.; I would not judge them as from the same designer. My preference is for the original Thiel presentation as more musically enjoyable than the FST presentation. YMMV. |
mrpostfire - I concur with beetlemaina, and can add a few further thoughts. I’ve been critically assessing Thiel speakers for future improvement - so I’ve developed a pretty good handle on them recently, additional to my lived experience in Thiel’s first 20 years and professional use of CS2.2s until the present. Rather than speculating on what you might be hearing, I’ll ask a question. Have you tried to isolate your problem sound to one speaker and/or one driver? It is possible that a voice coil might be slipping on its former. When that happens via over-work / heat, there is a raspy, hazy noise both from the physical motion of the voice coil as well as the large non-linearities of the diaphragm motion vs the input signal. I ask in order to differentiate between a problem and a general observation of "less black". Please supply more information because your commentt runs contrary to the general assessment of Thiel speakers and my experience relative to many peer brands. |
Perhaps semantics but I think of electronics responsible for “black backgrounds”. I suppose the analog in the speaker realm is “transparency”. IMO, Thiels are generally very transparent. That was one of the strengths of my 1.6s. That said, I heard a subtle “glassy” quality in the midrange when I bought my 2.4SEs in 2018. It might have been the FST-sourced crossovers (lower quality parts compared to crossovers built at the Lexington shop) or, maybe, damaged resistors (the OEM resistors showed evidence of overheating when I replaced them). That quality was mostly, if not completely, remedied by the Mills resistors. And my final boards not only have zero trace of that anomaly but the transparency is topshelf, equivalent to the very be$t speakers I’ve heard. It could be that your 2.4s are more revealing flaws in your electronics rather than the other way around. |
A pair of Thiel Passive Crossover PX05's are listed on Canuck <https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649715447-theil-passive-crossover-px05-pair/?utm_campaign=sa...> The ad describes these PX05's as specifically configured for Thiel 3.7's. I downloaded the manual for the PX05. I realize the intent of the PX05 is for use with Thiel subwoofers. My question is: Would there be any benefit of these PX05's interfaced instead with a pair of NOn-Thiel SVS SB 16 Ultra subwoofers? The rest of my existing system is: Thiel CS 3.7's - left + right 5- Thiel PowerPoint 1.2's - center, surround, rear 4 - Thiel PowerPlane 1.2s - Atmos ceiling Anthem AVM-60 PrePro Conrad Johnson Premier 17 LS2 Stereo Preamp Conrad Johnson 350SA Amplifier Anthem A-5 amplifiers for surround + Atmos ceiling speakers. Chris |
I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on this. Thiels are sometimes described as very lively speakers. I would characterize my 2.4s as sounding lively. Sometimes I wonder if they are too lively. That is I can't get the black background feel of other speakers. I have no discernible buzz, hum, noise or anything of the sort when music not played. But when music is played, the overall presentation is lively which gives the impression that the background is not black as in other speakers. Anyone notice the same? |
Hi @dsper, My suggestion to flip the fuse direction/orientation is a simple step and a number of listeners note that one direction is better sounding than the other. I'm sure you're aware that some consider upgrade fuses utter nonsense. So be it. I've have heard definite improvement with Synergistic Research fuses in my audio system. Charles |
Don't see this every day Thiel Audio CS3.5 3-way Speakers w/ Electronic Bass EQ & Manual -... (craigslist.org) |
dsper From my experiences I am continually surprised , a fuse ! a resistor ! speaker placement change by 1/4 inch ! speaker wire gauge ( I resently doubled mine ) ! room acoustics ! power cord ! wall outlet ! TUBE ROLLING !! You have a great system so keep trying to fill your glass the fun never stops and the music just keeps getting better and better . |
vair68robert and charles1dadIts good to know others can hear a difference with fuses. Hopefully, you are not pulling my leg:-)! I am a pretty analytical "my glass is half empty" kind of guy. My view was pretty negative that there could be a difference, but when Pat suggested changing out the mains fuse..... Still not quite sure I should believe what I am hearing.... Then again, I was pretty convinced my thicker than lamp cord speaker wire was fine until I tried a thicker gauge...and I could hear that. I assume that one's system has to be pretty resolving to hear any of this? Thanks for listening Dsper |
dsper I'll assume that you upgraded the Mains fuse with the Synergistic fuse , may I suggest that you replace the other 10 fuses with Bussman or Littlefuse ceramic fuses ( $2.00 @ ) . When working on my DNA-250 I replaced all the glass fuses with the Bussman fuses and noticed an improvement well worth the $22.00 . I purchased a Furutech fuse for the Mains ( 1/2 priced at $35.00 ) and compaired it to the Bussman , yes the Furutech sounded better BUT not that much better than a $2.00 Bussman . |
@dsper, In regard to the fuse you were recommended, flip the fuse in the other direction and compare. Usually one direction/position of the fuse will sound noticeably better than the other. A simple step but folks have noted the difference. Some hear no different with trying better grade fuses. I do and apparently so does Pat at McCormack. Charles |
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Well, the little Belles Hot rod is officially retired from my main system. I pulled the trigger on a Threshold s/500 series II. It’s been rebuilt/refreshed by Jon Soderberg a few months ago. Wow what a beast! For the first time in 20 years I am hearing what the 2.3s can really do. The Belles is a great amp for the money, but the Thiels really wake up with a heap of current. |
jafant, Thanks for the clarification on what a loom means. I have not gotten into power cords and my speaker cable runs are only about ten feet so I not too concerned with that part of it. However, at the suggestion of Pat at McCormack Audio, I added a Synergistic fuse to the DNA-500 amp. Not sure if it really made a difference...... Dsper |