Jafant...
No, at least not for the moment!
I still have my new Primare A34.2 amp that's barely, not even broken in. I also have a "spare" CJ MF200 amp as well. I was actually thinking of returning to Pass Labs amplification. but the 150.5 that I had, and bought for $2495 a few years ago has almost doubled in price - even used/demo. Mark @ Reno keeps me updated. Yikes! That would have been the only piece of equipment I've had that actually increased in price.
If the BAT is truly something special I'll more than likely purchase a new unit. It's kind of how we should buy automobiles; check them out in a rental then decide. If that were possible in every case I would not have bought my 2011 Lexus ES 350. (An imported Buick at best!) Very uncomfortable seats, low headroom even with the sunroof open, no rear view camera...a mechanically bulletproof car with decent mpg and performance but...real world daily usage feh! I was thinking once of leasing the Cadillac XTS but after I rented it for a vacation week, found it was like driving a refrigerator box with slits for windows. Ridiculously limited rear visibility on all sides.
Wow...went off topic there!
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oblgny-
are you re-building your system? Going to all B.A.T. ? |
Jafant...
No. Rather than going to an electrical supply store for this they are dealing directly with BAT - and they were sent the wrong toggle switch. Grrrrr.... It's just a flipswitch! I'm not being charged for this so my patience is extended if not tested. They're good folks so I'm not truly concerned. However I sold my AR LS 3 and my Peachtree 220SE integrated and my Classe CP35 so I'm music less now... |
oblgny-
did you get back your B.A.T. ? |
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Unsound...
Thanks for that clarification. I'm sticking with the 3.5's simply because they're so damn good as is. |
The 3.5's and 3.6's used different drivers, similar but different cross-overs. The 3.5's used bass eq/boosted sealed boxes, and with the 3.6's a passive radiator. IMHO, the 3.5's are more coherent, have deeper bass response, and are easier to amplify. The 3.6's are more refined and suave in the mid to upper frequencies, and are capable of more dynamic range. The amplification requirements of both requires careful consideration, especially for the 3.6's. With that said, most seem to prefer the 3.6's and I seem to be I the minority of preferring the 3.5's.
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Boots - thanks, will be checking out the psb minis. |
Does the CS 3.5 and CS 3.6 use the same drivers? Crossover?
If so, it would be of interest to own back up drivers/crossovers, especially, if they are in cherry condition! Keep me posted on your B.A.T.
and local dealer/retailer. |
Open question...
I have a very good pair of CS3.5's right now but, as mentioned a few posts back, had offered $1100 for a pair of CS3.6's here on Audiogon which was declined. The seller just messaged me that their buyer backed out after they accepted and I could have them for $1100 now. Original cartons and everything.
It would be nice to lose that electronic equalizer but I would be sacrificing about 5hz at the low end - is it "what's a few hertz between friends" or "you're an idiot - keep the 3.5's! Or do I start a vertical collection of Thiel models? Thanks. |
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TY- Dan for the connection on Thiel legacy manager- Rob Gillum.
Regarding your question about surround speakers- I have only heard the 2-channel Thiel loudspeakers (2.4, 2.4SE, 2.7 and 3.7).
None of those dealers/retailers had any in/on nor sat Thiel speakers.
All auditions were in a 2-channel listening room or showroom.
Hopefully, one of the other guys here can be of help to you.
Happy Listening! |
dklap...
Thanks for that tip regarding the legacy products. Great to know. |
Jafant...
I have to admit that I exercise caution when touting a commercial enterprise here for reasons that are obvious to everyone who buys/sells and posts here. I like the "real world" opinions of people who own and live with the equipment we discourse over as opposed to people who have a commercial stake - not that there's anything wrong with that in the proper setting.
Here on Long Island there are two bricks and mortar stores a body can WALK into without an appointment - and this one is literally right around the corner from me. When I first moved here 22 years ago I had virtually no furniture so I bought a pair of Klipsch CF-3's from them - to fill up my living room. (They were fun for a while but those horn loaded tweeters...oy vey!) The fact that they're still around is testimony enough to their business acumen.
Anyway, I should be picking up my BAT preamp this afternoon and when I do I'll be checking out the Thiels they mentioned - which may pose an issue. If they're a model above my CS3.5 dare I consider them? Woe is me!
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Dan,
I have found that the PSB Imagine Minis mate quite well with my 2.4s in my room. They have their own adjustable wall bracket too.
Cheers,
Warren |
So jafant, as apparent resident Thiel expert, can you give me a suggestion as to what smaller satellite or ON wall speakers tonally match the Thiel sound? I have nowhere to install Thiels in walls for my surrounds, and unfortunately need on-walls. SHort of building boxes for another pair of Power Plane 1.2's, not sure what else would match.
ALSO - an FYI to all Thiel owners - I spoke to Rob Gillum of Thiel today who sold me 2 replacement grilles for the beat up ones I received from the prior owner... He runs service for all legacy products in Kentucky. Really nice guy, look him up if you need anything. Former operations manager when the factory was still located in Kentucky. Appears to know his stuff.
Anyway, suggestions as to tonally matching satellites or on-walls would be much appreciated
- Dan
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Nice of you to give a shout-out to your local dealer/retailer "Audio Den" oblgny. Consider yourself fortunate to have a local dealer/retailer. |
Good to read- oblgny
which Thiel speakers do you own? What other gear is in your system (including cabling)? Happy Listening! |
Jafant...
I stopped by the store yesterday and will be picking it up Thursday. Aaaaargh! Great folks at Audio Den here in Lake Grove but thankfully they really take care of me. I also checked out a pair of Maggie 1.7i's just for the hell of it. (I like Maggie's, too) Oddly I preferred the smaller and less expensive .7's. The owner said he had a pair of used Thiels downstairs and when I pick up the BAT I'm going to ask which models they are...of course! I almost had a pair of CS3.6 from this site but offered $1100...I think they went for $1200..
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Good Day robinbarbour-
I am a big fan of CJ gear as well. Did you check out the MET-1 ? This is CJ's attempt at surround sound- 5.1 to be exact. Yes, I have read excellent comments on Cary Cinema. Personally, I am a "stereo" guy, 2-channel only. Once one steps outside of this and goes into a more complicated configuration, 5.1 or 7.1, much thought/planning must be sorted out. I have auditioned both good and poor HT set-ups over the years. In a 5-channel system, it all starts with the room or listening space. |
Jafant,
I like you comment :
"Another attribute- very clean. Some will confuse this aspect w/ forward and/or bright. I suppose that if fed the wrong source or component the presentation could be bright. At any rate, this could be tamed w/ a tubed pre-amp or amp. My fave combo is a tubed pre-amp and solid state power amp. Most important of all, carefully selecting cables/power cords."
I have been experimenting with cables and getting some decent results, but difficult to try without purchase. My question is about tubes. I am operating a surround system with Thiels and the only tube prepro I saw was cj that doesn't do decoding. I was thinking of possibly Cary Cinema, but wanted to know if anyone had other suggestions? What are your thoughts on 5 channel. I still currently get good two channel with my set up and would like to stay multiple channeled. |
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UGH! Due to a pocket door, there isn't enough room to mount the Powerplane 1.2 on the right side of my TV!
So it's 1 of 3 options:
1. Build a nice looking box around them and hang them on the wall;
2. Install them all horizontally in a row below the TV (it's a 65" so they would be mostly spread out...)
3. Sell them.
I guess I could use them in my bedroom, but that's overkill on my budget, especially when I have 2 and a half extra HT speaker systems I can use in the bedroom...
What do you guys think? I can get new grills for $40 a piece, and there are 2 very tiny (undisclosed ) chips on the speakers edges that won't be visible when installed.
Time to research on-wall options?
- Dan
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Oblgny-
did you get your BAT back? |
Many Thanks! Dan for your contribution to this thread.
Thiel will image like no other. Detail and resolution are abundant as well.
Another attribute- very clean. Some will confuse this aspect w/ forward and/or bright. I suppose that if fed the wrong source or component the presentation could be bright. At any rate, this could be tamed w/ a tubed pre-amp or amp. My fave combo is a tubed pre-amp and solid state power amp. Most important of all, carefully selecting cables/power cords. |
So I received the speakers. They are a little beat up - not sure how to handle that, sent an email to the seller - but I hooked them up and I've got to say they sound fantastic with the Odyssey Stratos amp. My Odyssey is an HT-3 with a cap upgrade for reference.
Anyway, sound is extremely detailed. They are replacing Acoustic Energy Aegis speakers, Compacts for right and left and the Aegis Center.
Surrounds are Canton Plus X speakers.
Dialogue is is crystal clear for movies/TV. Playing Force Awakens right now and it's close to perfect dialogue. Had to turn down my sub, as the Thiels are slightly harder to drive than the Acoustic Energy speakers. No nasal dialogue, and the speakers are seriously dynamic. Easy to hear at low volume, no ability to crank them up due to sleeping family.
Music is also excellent. Used to prefer multi-channel music mode. But now all that does is reveal the deficiencies in the Cantons. Yes, the Thiels are that much cleaner. They make the Cantons sound dark. I wouldn't call the Thiels bright in any way - just clean. If they are normally bright the Stratos is keeping them musical.
Imaging is great. Can't tell where the speakers are even tho they are aimed slightly above my head (not installed in the wall, sitting on console table under the TV).
Anyway, very pleased with the sound just unhappy they are cosmetically banged up...
Overall, I'd say great match with the Odyssey Stratos. I'll try to hook them up to my parasound 1206 and compare them to the MK's hooked up in the basement.
- Dan |
Nice! Dan.
keep me posted and happy listening! |
Jafant - I will report on the marriage between Thiel and my Odyssey Stratos amp when I get home from vacation and hook these puppies up. They need to sound good before I cut holes in my walls. Cables are as follows : internconnects by The Music Cable, using the Yellow model, and my review from 2002 is available here. These have been stored sin sealed ziplock bags since 2007, brought back into action about 2 months ago when I hooked up the Stratos in my living room. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/review-the-music-cable-yellow-interconnect-interconnectSpeaker cable is 14 gauge, available at big box store brand cable that my contractor ran through the walls - no idea on the brand. Source connects are rocket fish HDMI a from blue ray player and X1 cable box, media server via wired Ethernet cable. Not much else to report until I can run some power though these speakers... Not likely until Tuesday. - Dan |
Hang in there- oblgny. It will be worth it.
I have always wanted to demo B.A.T. gear- whom has the best operation and showroom? |
Jafant...
Actually it's just having its toggle switch replaced. My dealer had to request one from BAT. The wait is killing me but... |
dklap-
I would be curious to learn about the synergy between Thiel & Odyssey amps. What other gear, including cabling, is in your system?
Happy Listening! |
Steve, I'm glad your happy with that sound. |
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I just created another discussion, but curious as to what you guys think about the synergy between an upgraded Odyssey Stratos amp and Thiel speakers. I just purchased 3 Powerplane 1.2's for my living room (wife is done with my rotating on-walls) and the Stratos 3 channel powers the three front speakers. Use is mostly TV and movies, and I'm the only one that listens to music in there...
I've always liked Thiels, never owned them (couldn't afford them!) but when I was looking for higher quality in-walls and saw how inexpensive the powerplanes could be found online, I just bought them. Expecting delivery on Monday.
Anyway, any thoughts would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
- Dan |
Nice Steve I knew we would dig out another Thiel fan. I'll bet they sound great with the Manleys! |
Steve,
the CS 2.4 is a killer speaker at its price-point!
Happy Listening!
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oblgny-
what kind of service are you doing on the BAT VK3i ?
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Unsound:
I have both CS6s and CS2.4s and run both pairs with tube amps; for the the 2.4s, a Manley Stingray II. Sounds great, and, in my room, I am not power limited in the least.
Cheers
Steve |
Had a great "Thiel weekend" with my current setup...
Primare amp, Classe pre, Sony HapZ1es server, Thiel CS 3.5 with Transparent Wave cables. (Transparent Link connects on everything in between) I'm still awaiting the return of my BAT VK3i preamp...
I'm seriously considering a pair of 3.6 currently listed that I can get for around $1200...comments? I will keep my 3.5's regardless.
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All-
hope you guys are having a fun Thiel weekend.
Eat a chocolate bunny on Easter Day! |
Warren,
oddly enough, I have only heard Thiel speakers w/ Audioquest speaker cables. They seem to mate very nicely. Others to consider, Kimber,
Nordost, Audience and Wireworld.
Older XLO gets an honorable mention from a friend whom used these cables for many years. |
Hi All,
I have been reading this thread and just have to tell you where I am at with my CS5's and amp search.
My system used to be Maggie 3.6's but I obtained an inexpensive pair of CS3.6's which I liked a lot and then saw an ad for some CS5's so I said why not.
l ran an Oppo 105 modified by Ric Schultz, Prima Luna Dialogue Premium preamp, Cullen Cables, and W4S ST1000 with the Maggies and was quite happy.
With the CS5's, I needed a new amp. So...I was able to in home audition various amps. In my system, my thoughts:
Proceed HPA2 - harsh treble
Hegel H20 - delicate but got congested with complicated music
Mark Levinson 535H - sterile
Krell 302 evolution - the bass was okay but the treble was a bit shrill - 140 pounds - ugh
Pass X350 - great definition and bass but a bit polite - 130 pounds - ugh
So I took a chance and talked with Doug Dale at Coda. He had a new old stock CS with their Thermal Trac mod. 300 watts into 4 ohms and doubles down. 75 amps of current with peaks to 125 amps.
Sounds very good to my ear in my system. Very musical with lots of detail. The bass is as good, if not better than anything I have tried. Class A to 5 or 10 watts so it weighs in at 50 pounds and I can play it all day and it is only warm to the touch.
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@jafant So what are your go-to cables with the Thiels, out of curiosity?
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Thanks.
The Kimber Hero is fine. The system ran with original Monster M1000 (the grey ones from 1989) throughout until i needed to buy more when I went to 7.1. Then i just switched it up. As long as the cables are well-insulated from interference, I'm cool with them. I don't get too caught up in the minutia unless something sounds "wrong". The last time that happened, was with the M1000 Mk. II. It did something different, and less convincing, so i bought up all the previous version I needed.
Cheers,
Warren |
Nice system Warren!
how do you like Kimber Kable w/ your Thiel speakers?
Other cable systems that you have owned?
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Like I said: lotto = new music room. The speakers are 181 and 182. So yours are the 89th pair (pretty much the end of the line).
If we must talk about the system details, here’s the analogue chain:
Ortofon Cadenza Red > SME Series IV > Oracle Delphi > Graham Slee Reflex C > Kimber Hero > Parasound P7 > Kimber Hero XLR > Mark Levinson No.27 > Monster Powerline 2 > Thiel CS 2.4SE
Oppo BDP-95 (7.1 analogue out)
Apple Mac Mini
Parasound A52 (5-ch.)
Parasound Zhd (HDMI switch)
Thiel MCS1 (centre)
PSB Imagine Mini (surrounds)
SVS SB12-NSD (subs)
Cheers,
Warren |
Another query-
Warren, what other gear, including cabling, is in your system? |
Nice! Warren.
which #'s do you own? I have #'s 177 and 178. I love these speakers!
My initial audition was w/ #'s 50 and 51 about 3 years ago.
So rich in sound and presentation. Only if you have a very large listening space (20x20, 25x25 or 30x30) should you seek out the CS 3.7 model.
Plus, the massive amp(s) to drive them properly. Happy Listening! |
Hi jafant,
I have a pair of Thiel CS2.4SE (the last pair made actually). This was my upgrade from a pair of Thiel CS2 I bought in 1988. I had been looking for a new pair of speakers for about 5 years, but nothing seemed to outperform (to my ears) the 2's until the 2.4's came along.
FYI, about the SE run: they only made 91 of the anticipated 150 pairs. I got this info from Lana Ruth directly. The run was cancelled during the time of flux in the company, due to the restructuring, and a lack of interest from their declining dealer network.
I'm very happy with the speakers. These will probably be the last pair I own, unless I win the lotto and seek out a pair of 3.7's (to complement the new music room)...
Cheers,
Warren
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Thanks! for the update oblgny.
Yes, big fan of Transparent cabling here as well. I am very fortunate to have heard almost every model in the MM2 catalog, including, the all-mighty OPUS series!
I feel that the best investment w/ this company lies in its trade-up program. Nothing else like it! The middle of the chain is very sweet and the best place to start your musical journey, IMO.
Happy Listening! |
oblgny good strategy starting at the entry level for transparent cables. That is the best way to find the sweet spot in the line, and being a long time Thiel owner I have proven to myself over and over you do not need reference wire to make your Thiels sing better than most.
Keep us updated on your journey. |
Damn...the store only had one pair of Transparent Link interconnects in stock. I ordered three more pairs, and I may have to purchase a few pair of balanced cables since the BAT has those as well.
Since Transparent offers a trade up program on their cables I'm starting with their least expensive models. I'm finding that the Wave speaker cables seem to be the best match with my Thiel CS3.5's. Where other cables such as Anti-Cables, Goertz delivered some pretty acceptable sonics, the Transparents seem to bring out the widest range without suffering from accentuating any particular frequency range.
Dare I say that I find the Thiels to be the most neutral sounding speaker I've owned, and as I've stated before, "Thiels reveal" - anything in the chain that colors the sonics is soon enough found out. Not that coloring sonics is a bad thing, all equipment does that no matter the manufacturer. I know that a few members here and elsewhere find Thiels to be on the bright side, and they can be for some, but I've tossed a good many amp/pre-amp combos into my system the last year and a half and the one constant is the Thiels. They just make almost anything sound good. Some sound different, but all sounded good.
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