nkonor my understanding, as far as 3.5s are concerned, is that Thiel service can only rebuild drivers. I understand the midrange can be rebuilt for $300 each, so not cheap, but I think well worth it to extend the life of these wonderful speakers. My mids are fine, but the design of the 3.5 means these are the most likely driver to fail.
Thiel Owners
Guys-
I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
13,723 responses Add your response
Nkonor... Wow - I've never blown a driver in any of the speakers I've ever owned. Below there's a post clarifying that legacy models can be repaired by Thiel. The pair of 3.5's I gave to my nephew a while back had a midrange repaired by them, cost around $400 all inclusive. (Shipping etc.) Were you listening at a loud level? Too much power/not enough? I drive mine with an amp capable of 300 watts into their 4ohm load although I've never driven them that hard. |
This thread has been great. I have always missed my 3.5s. I blew Many tweeter and midrange drivers. That's why I sold them. Has anyone else had this problem? I wonder if the new owners will be able to provide matching drivers to original specs for 3.5s that are long out of warranty and at what cost? Thiel 3.5s were truly Reference Speakers. |
Jafant... Based on my personal experience with Pass and CJ amps in a separates mode I have to say that I found the CJ to be "warmer" for lack of a better impression, while the Pass struck me as absolutely colorless - in a positive way. Some say Pass is too analytical, but with Thiels which also strike me as utterly colorless the match was quite good. Both amps had sufficient current to meet the demands of my 3.5's. To my ears the CJ also emphasized the low end to a noticeable extent, again not a negative impression, simply in comparison to the Pass. I've stopped monkeying around with my system now, realizing that I've gotten silly swapping out amps/preamps over the last couple of years. Thanks, Audiogon! The only thing I will change will be returning to a Pass amp if and when the opportunity arises. My Primare A34.2 is a very good amp indeed but for me Pass is the one for my 3.5's. You have some tough decisions to ponder, albeit enjoyable ones. Have at it! |
jafant, Reading the stereophile review of CS2.4 they listed : Preamplifiers: Ayre K-5xe, Conrad-Johnson ACT2, Viola Labs Cadenza. Power Amplifiers: Ayre V-5xe, Coda S5, Fisher 500-B, Cayin SA 50T, Moscode 401HR, Viola Labs Symphony. That might be a good place to start, but if wanting to stay with integrated instead of seperates, I noticed at shows, Bryston was used with Thiel at a lot of their displays. |
2nd Note; guys -upon completion, my system, will be reference level. Considering the dollar amounts involved, I do not want to make a mistake. Synergy and careful gear selection is paramount. I have never had any interest in a revolving-door system. Once in place it will be around for many, many years. |
Hello Jeff good to see you again. Believe me, I am chomping at the bit trying to put it all together. I really want to audition a few more pieces prior to any purchasing. These integrated amps are on my short-list; B.A.T. Bryston B-135 (squared or cubed) Conrad Johnson CA 150/150 SE Pass Labs INT models I want a frame of reference, as in the past, I have heard these companies separates. You guys will get it here in this thread, first. Happy Listening! |
Thanks! again- catalysis upon my 1st demo session w/ the CS 2.4, I was instantly struck by its very rich sound (timbre) and presentation. I was fortunate enough to listen to those speakers on a 3-month work assignment. I am became a believer and awaited until a pair of CS 2.4SE came along for purchase. Happy Listening! |
Previous speakers in my listening room had always benefited from quite fierce toe in, essentially with the tweeters pointing at my ears. With the Thiels it’s totally different. They don’t sound bad in that configuration, but it does compress their ultra impressive sound staging, plus the treble is far better integrated with the other drivers when in a more or less flat set up. I have about an inch of toe in just to channel the sound away from the side walls. Essentially I’m in heaven with how they sound. While led they do plunge Stygian depths of bass, the sound is still lean when it needs to sound lean. In other words there appears to be zero cabinet coloration. To my ears the 3.5s have the sound I was chasing with electrostatics, but with all the dynamism they lack. Just superb. |
"Thanks! for sharing your impressions and experiences- catalysis what gear, including cabling, are your using in your system?" Benchmark DAC2 HGC, Bridged Adcom GFA 555II’s, Benchmark star quad interconnects. Canare star quad speaker cable. I have the 3.5 equalizer permanently in circuit. All components connected via Adcom Ace Enhancer. Contrary to some people’s experience with Adcoms and Thiels, I don’t find the sound presentation sound harsh at all. I think that is helped by the very high quality dac which means the Adcoms are amplifying a very pure and accurate signal. I also agree with others that toe in should be absolutely minimal for best treble resolution. Despite Thiel’s comments that these speakers aren’t very critical to position, I find that they benefit enormously from experimentation. Even two inches less toe in can bring big contrasts in sound presentation. I do have to wonder how many owners dismissed them as harsh without playing around with them in their music rooms? My own take is that the tweeter has quite wide dispersion characteristics and any attempt to over focus treble direction, for example pointing directly at the listener position, essentially takes them out of Jim’s intended design window. |
robinbarbour, Close, but not quite: http://www.stereophile.com/content/thiel-cs72-loudspeaker-specifications#zxQKTPbzDr4CaVoc.97 Keep in mind that the 3.5's and the 5's did with it sealed boxes too. |
Of course, but: http://www.stereophile.com/content/thiel-cs35-loudspeaker-specifications#6mcsq3ICT5hzkUZZ.97 http://www.stereophile.com/content/thiel-cs5-loudspeaker-specifications-0#y99hwBpthoEYX6iw.97 Note the frequency response: CS 3.5's +/- 2 dB CS 5's +/- 1dB Most speakers are specified +/- 3 dB I'm confident that with that extra longitude :-), both would measure flat to 20 Hz. |
Have been watching this thread with huge interest and perhaps it’s time I waded in with a few initial thoughts, again on the 3.5s. I’m 100% with oblgny in his praise for these amazing speakers. Goodness knows I’ve owned a hell of a lot of speakers in the past 30 years, from three types of Quad electrostatic, to Kef 107/2s to Celestion Kingstons, to LS3/5As, to name but a few, and nothing comes even close to what the 3.5s do as a whole. I truly think my quest is at an end. They handle ANY genre of music utterly effortlessly and don’t need huge amounts of gain to sparkle either. As oblgny says, there’s something so right about them. And yet they aren’t exactly the most sought after speakers and go for prices that are punching way, way below their weight. I have no hesitation in calling Jim Thiel an utter genius of speaker design. Admittedly not the easiest speakers to drive, but who cares when the sound is so gloriously complete. Perhaps someone could answer if these were the only full range Thiel speakers? I can confirm that the Kentucky service dept is alive and well and I just bought new spikes from them a couple of weeks ago. They don’t do the rounded tip ones any more however. As a slightly negative footnote, while I'm pleased that the new regime at Thiel has allowed the service dept to stay alive, the new designs are not worthy of the brand. You'd at least think they'd retain the coherent source concept, wouldn't you. Presumably they purchased the IP too? |
proud owner of thiel 2.2 and 2.3 i . thiel have one of the best dynamic i heard so far (may be i heard too less). if your amp have enough current , the tweeter and woofer can push or stop in a super speedy focus way that i still trying to find other speaker may do as well . the only weakness they need warmer sound amp on the female vocal especially for the newer model like 2.3i but the 2.2 was fine . anyone can recommend any brand to upgrade for me? thanks |
jafant, I actually have these in 5.1 systems for both stereo and movies. I use a cj MF5600 in one and an NHT Power5 (B&O Icepower) in the other. Before anyone reading this scoffs at the NHT, they should listen - or read about it on the web. obligny - I thought some might say I was bonkers for liking my 2 2 just as much as the 2.7. There are differences, but liked equally by myself. The older Thiels are best buys found on the web...! I fully understand your love of the 3.5. |
robin... Hang you out to dry? Over what, pray tell? When and if timing and finances permit I may eventually move up from my 3.5's to another Thiel, but it's been proven that these are extraordinarily difficult to beat at any price. I've had Magnepan 1.7's, .7's and Von Schweikert VR4's pass through my hands all the while returning to the Thiels. I've been interested in the 3.6's out of curiousity but none have been geographically desirable enough as yet. I fancy myself a relatively rational sort, so this is not a case of my drinking the proverbial Kool-aid nor the rants of a Thiel zealot. Enjoy the music! Have a safe and fun Labor Day weekend folks! |
oblgny.....I totally agree with you about being nervous about any changes, because I have become very protective in preserving what I have and uneasy about potentially loosing it....like with normal wear from aging. As I test more speakers, I have become increasingly aware of just how musically engaging my Thiels are. I recently bought and sold some much more expensive Revel Ultima2 speakers after only having them for about 2 months. They were touted as having all the attributes that I like about the Thiels, but it was obvious from my first listening session that my Thiels would be back.The Thiels just seem to make the whole listening room come alive, while all the other speakers I've tried just seems to project sound from between the speakers. I'm currently using them with the Audio Research Ref 150 and Ref5 with a tube modified Modwright Oppo 105. I have been told numerous times that 150 watts of tube amplification is not enough juice for the Thiels, but for my listening volumes, it seems like plenty. jafant.....I'm glad that I found this thread and will "follow this discussion" with email notifications. Jon (Birmingham, AL) |
I have 2.2 model and now the 2.7. I can't bear to part with the 2.2's. I completely understand what oblgny sees in his 30 year old speakers. It is the same thing I see (hear) in the 2.2 version and why I will not let them go. The refinements over the years for each model line has been beneficial in the smoothness and musicality of the speaker, however the "old" sound was just as good - even better- in different ways. There - I've said it - you guys can hang me out to dry if you want and I spent quite a bit more on the new model. I like it just as much, but not more. i listen to the 2.7's and sometime want to listen to the 2.2's. I'll put the old models up against competition's new models any day of the week. |
jonandfamily... My 3.5's are about 30 years old and still perform as I imagine they did way back when. I suppose one could check the crossover components out to verify all is in order, but I am personally VERY hesitant about letting anyone attempt a repair or "upgrade" for a couple of reasons. 1.) I believe the design holds true to Jim Thiel's intent and seriously doubt that any alteration to them could or would improve anything. Makes me nervous thinking about the day that something could falter. I bought Thiel's because he designed them, and I should leave well enough alone. 2.) I'd sooner change another component over the speakers. They've sounded wonderful with everything I've put through them. For now at least it appears that Thiel is still willing to make repairs on their legacy products such as our's, but for how long who knows? |
Guys, I hate to switch gears but I bought some Thiel CS3.6s on Audiogon about 5 years and recently asked the manufacturer when mine were made based on their serial numbers. They say 1996....20 years old. They sound terrific, but is there something that could be updated or upgraded to bring these closer to "new" but "broken-in" sound? I'm very happy with what I have, but you never know what you're missing without hearing it. If there is a different discussion thread for this, please let me know. |
I'm using a Primare A34.2 class d amp which is rated at 150 into 8ohms and "almost double that" into 4ohms - that directly from Primare when I reached out to them inquiring about it. (Their owner's manual is spartan to say the least.) Virtually every amp I've used in the last few years put out 300 watts into 4 ohm loads. My listening level is fairly conservative to say the least so I've never stressed the amp nor the Thiels throughout, but I do stress the high current importance in making them perform. The Primare and my BAT pre are breaking in nicely - there is a noticeable difference in sonics after about an hour - for the better. When both are warmed up the same volume setting just blooms - everything simply has more presence and space. Unsound...I rep some pretty good burgs - where do you reside? I might be able to steer you to some values. But message me aside - this is forum is for Thiel! |