Thiel Owners

Hope you guys are having a fun and music filled Thiel week!

Happy Listening!

Until i got my 1st taste of the CS 2.4, later on the CS 2.4SE (my reference)
I did not think much of a passive Bass radiator? After hearing these outstanding speakers, I was "hooked" and  a believer!

I think the reason for active is to couple drivers directly to the amplifier and get rid of crossover components. Also a passive radiator shares same compartment with the woofer and is coupled together by the air pressure, so I don't think two active woofers of different designs would work. The SS3 amp is designed specifically for bass reproduction with specific Thiele/Small parameters in mind and proprietary to the drivers.
Though nut to crack, but good luck! 

Cool project- saffron!

if you decide to do it, keep me posted. Happy Listening!

Does anybody know whether Jim Thiel ever played around with the idea of an active loudspeaker?

I've wondered about frankensteining something in the CS6 form factor, consisting of the CS3.7's crossover, coax, and woofer; and the PX02, SS3's amp and 12" subwoofer replacing the passive radiator. 

Goofy i know, but was thinking that if Vandersteen was actively doing it (pardon the pun), whether it would work...

I need  a pair of the C's 2.4 as I bought a ss2.2 suggest has cs3.7 as a front and C's 2.4 as surrounds will be looking

TY- spenrock

I have spent some times w/ Classe' separates, but never their integrated amps. Same w/ Krell. There are so many good choices.

Most like the newer Krell Vanguard. I do not know if Classe' still builds an integrated or not?  Cabling is the most important and often forgotten facet, as it ties an excellent system, together.

It's been a long while, but I think the Krell amps were KSA-50, KAV-500 (bridegable multichannel). The Krell KAV-300i (integrated) was used with my friends 3.6s for many years, and he liked the setup. However, last time I saw them, he was using the Classe CAP-151, which he likes better.

Shorter auditions with Classe amps were the CA-100, CA-150 & CAP-2100 (int). 

Cabling, I don't know what my friend used. Myself Polk Cobra, Oyaide (sorry don't know the model. Very quick, but perhaps a little light in the bass), DIY twisted and braided kinda like Kimber.

Thanks! for sharing- spenrock

can you tell me and the guys here about the Krell and Classe' amps used by you guys?  Cabling is the most important factor as well. Happy Listening!

Just stumbled on to this discussion.

I have a pair of 2.3s, and my friend 3.6s.  As people have said, good clean power with the ability to effortlessly drive 4 ohm (2 ohm ideally) speakers will make a dramatic difference. When matched well, the Thiels are really special.

We had some success with older Krell amps and almost any age Classe (as others have noted). The Classe's really match well, being able to really grab hold of the lower frequencies, giving tight, articulate, but full bass. Even an older Classe CAP151 integrated was a great match with his 3.6s in a modest size room.

Someone mentioned that NAD doesn't match well. Hmmm... that reminds to try my NAD M2 (digital power dac) with my 2.3s that are in storage because my listening space is a little small at the moment. The NAD M2 completely blew away my Peachtree Nova 125 amp with the bookshelves currently in my system.

Agree, Thiels really perform way beyond their price point. Buying older models in good condition is value beyond belief.

Much Thanks! Jeff

the PL and Rogue Audio products are real "sleepers" and can compete w/ the big guys like ARC, CJ...etc.

IMO, Pass Labs is the best solid-state at the present.

Jfant;

I went to Chicago to listen to Pass Labs, a while ago,and also listened to a PrimaLuna Integrated with SonusFaber Olympics

The PrimaLuna was very, very smooth and velvety with nasty rock albums that I brought along as reference. 

If integrated is an option, I would highly recommend a look at PL.

i listened with ARC stuff, too
PL was much better to me, CJ like

jeff

Agreed unsound,

Thiel offers a 10-yr warranty and frequently honors another or 2 nd owner
on its loudspeakers.  This type of commitment really "seals" any deal for me.

Happy Listening!

Many Thanks! nkonor-

you raise an excellent point of view, in that, older power amps are still very much relevant. So long as some tech can replace caps and other critical parts as they die off, very relevant.  Happy Listening!

The 3.5 midranges with their paper surrounds occasionally need to be rebuilt. I've had both of my pair rebuilt by Thiel once gratis 10 years after the warranty ran out, only had to pay for shipping there. I sure miss Shari Graham and the non pareil  Thiel customer service. Not bad for  25 year old speakers.

Within their power range those Forte 7's were wonderful!

I used a pair of Forte model 7 monos to drive the Thiel 3.5s (75w - pure class A ( Still have them; wonderful sounding amps.) Then switched to a pair of Spectral DMA 90s run as bridged monos (200w)
Had more than a few conversations with Kathy; after 8yrs, Kathy sent a letter along with the midrange driver saying that my warranty was up and that I would have to pay for replacements. Sold them shortly after.

And ears!  Happy Listening!

$300 is nothing, if it means extending the life of your speakers.

This is the most important aspect of owning Thiel speakers.
As we see so many companies dumping customer service, it is good to read and know, that Thiel has our best interest at heart.

Welcome! nkonor-

what power amps were you using to blow so many drivers?

nkonor my understanding, as far as 3.5s are concerned, is that Thiel service can only rebuild drivers. I understand the midrange can be rebuilt for $300 each, so not cheap, but I think well worth it to extend the life of these wonderful speakers. My mids are fine, but the design of the 3.5 means these are the most likely driver to fail.

Nkonor...

Wow - I've never blown a driver in any of the speakers I've ever owned. Below there's a post clarifying that legacy models can be repaired by Thiel.  The pair of 3.5's I gave to my nephew a while back had a midrange repaired by them, cost around $400 all inclusive. (Shipping etc.)

Were you listening at a loud level?  Too much power/not enough?  I drive mine with an amp capable of 300 watts into their 4ohm load although I've never driven them that hard. 

This thread has been great. I have always missed my 3.5s. I blew Many tweeter and midrange drivers. That's why I sold them. Has anyone else had this problem? I wonder if the new owners will be able to provide matching drivers to original specs for 3.5s that are long out of warranty and at what cost? Thiel 3.5s were truly Reference Speakers.

^Pass Labs. Both Pass & c-j make nice stuff, but Pass really works best with balanced inputs, and alas c-j only comes single ended. 

Right On! oblgny

I rather enjoy both CJ and PL as separates. I want to demo their integrated amps for a comparison. I do get confused w/ the PL and First Watt models, as to, which ones have the most or highest current?

robinbarbour-

I have had an opportunity to demo the CJ Act2 pre-amp and it is excellent.
After audition, I had to wonder about the sound/presentation of the ART2/3 ?

unsound-

simply kicking the idea around...

Jafant...

Based on my personal experience with Pass and CJ amps in a separates mode I have to say that I found the CJ to be "warmer" for lack of a better impression, while the Pass struck me as absolutely colorless - in a positive way. Some say Pass is too analytical, but with Thiels which also strike me as utterly colorless the match was quite good. Both amps had sufficient current to meet the demands of my 3.5's. 

To my ears the CJ also emphasized the low end to a noticeable extent, again not a negative impression, simply in comparison to the Pass. 

I've stopped monkeying around with my system now, realizing that I've gotten silly swapping out amps/preamps over the last couple of years. Thanks, Audiogon!

The only thing I will change will be returning to a Pass amp if and when the opportunity arises. My Primare A34.2 is a very good amp indeed but for me Pass is the one for my 3.5's. 

You have some tough decisions to ponder, albeit enjoyable ones. Have at it!

jafant,
Reading the stereophile review of CS2.4 they listed :
Preamplifiers: Ayre K-5xe, Conrad-Johnson ACT2, Viola Labs Cadenza.
Power Amplifiers: Ayre V-5xe, Coda S5, Fisher 500-B, Cayin SA 50T, Moscode 401HR, Viola Labs Symphony.
That might be a good place to start, but if wanting to stay with integrated instead of seperates, I noticed at shows, Bryston was used with Thiel at a lot of their displays.

^Why so centered on integrateds rather seperates?

2nd Note;

guys -upon completion, my system, will be reference level. Considering the dollar amounts involved, I do not want to make a mistake. Synergy and careful gear selection is paramount.  I have never had any interest in a revolving-door system.  Once in place it will be around for many, many years. 

Hello Jeff

good to see you again. Believe me, I am chomping at the bit trying to put it all together.  I really want to audition a few more pieces prior to any purchasing.  These integrated amps are on my short-list;

B.A.T.
Bryston B-135 (squared or cubed)
Conrad Johnson CA 150/150 SE
Pass Labs INT models

I want a frame of reference, as in the past, I have heard these companies
separates.  You guys will get it here in this thread, first.

Happy Listening!

Jfant;

when are are you going to post pictures of the new CS2.4 system?

jeff

Thanks! again- catalysis

upon my 1st demo session w/ the CS 2.4, I was instantly struck by its very rich sound (timbre) and presentation. I was fortunate enough to listen to those speakers on a 3-month work assignment. I am became a believer and awaited until a pair of CS 2.4SE came along for purchase.

Happy Listening!

Previous speakers in my listening room had always benefited from quite fierce toe in, essentially with the tweeters pointing at my ears. With the Thiels it’s totally different. They don’t sound bad in that configuration, but it does compress their ultra impressive sound staging, plus the treble is far better integrated with the other drivers when in a more or less flat set up. I have about an inch of toe in just to channel the sound away from the side walls.

Essentially I’m in heaven with how they sound.

While led they do plunge Stygian depths of bass, the sound is still lean when it needs to sound lean. In other words there appears to be zero cabinet coloration. To my ears the 3.5s have the sound I was chasing with electrostatics, but with all the dynamism they lack. Just superb.

^ideally little to none, but if one has a difficult room with speakers close to the side walls it might be better to add more toe in.

Excellent! catalysis

yes, very minimal (read none) toe in, on these speakers.

"Thanks! for sharing your impressions and experiences- catalysis what gear, including cabling, are your using in your system?"

Benchmark DAC2 HGC, Bridged Adcom GFA 555II’s, Benchmark star quad interconnects. Canare star quad speaker cable. I have the 3.5 equalizer permanently in circuit. All components connected via Adcom Ace Enhancer.

Contrary to some people’s experience with Adcoms and Thiels, I don’t find the sound presentation sound harsh at all. I think that is helped by the very high quality dac which means the Adcoms are amplifying a very pure and accurate signal. I also agree with others that toe in should be absolutely minimal for best treble resolution.

Despite Thiel’s comments that these speakers aren’t very critical to position, I find that they benefit enormously from experimentation. Even two inches less toe in can bring big contrasts in sound presentation. I do have to wonder how many owners dismissed them as harsh without playing around with them in their music rooms?

My own take is that the tweeter has quite wide dispersion characteristics and any attempt to over focus treble direction, for example pointing directly at the listener position, essentially takes them out of Jim’s intended design window.

Thank You -guys for the excellent discussions in this thread.
Happy Labor Day!

robinbarbour, Close, but not quite:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/thiel-cs72-loudspeaker-specifications#zxQKTPbzDr4CaVoc.97

Keep in mind that the 3.5's and the 5's did with it sealed boxes too.

Of course, but:
http://www.stereophile.com/content/thiel-cs35-loudspeaker-specifications#6mcsq3ICT5hzkUZZ.97

http://www.stereophile.com/content/thiel-cs5-loudspeaker-specifications-0#y99hwBpthoEYX6iw.97

Note the frequency response:
CS 3.5's +/- 2 dB
CS 5's    +/- 1dB
Most speakers are specified +/- 3 dB
I'm confident that with that extra longitude :-), both would measure flat to 20 Hz.

Minuscule differences of course, but I think neither speaker went to 20Hz, something like 23Hz, but I appreciate that’s as near as dammit to full range.

How about CS7 and CS7.2? I would say full range...

Thiel CS 5's and 5i's were full range.

Thanks! for sharing your impressions and experiences- catalysis

what gear, including cabling, are your using in your system?

Have been watching this thread with huge interest and perhaps it’s time I waded in with a few initial thoughts, again on the 3.5s. I’m 100% with oblgny in his praise for these amazing speakers. Goodness knows I’ve owned a hell of a lot of speakers in the past 30 years, from three types of Quad electrostatic, to Kef 107/2s to Celestion Kingstons, to LS3/5As, to name but a few, and nothing comes even close to what the 3.5s do as a whole. I truly think my quest is at an end. They handle ANY genre of music utterly effortlessly and don’t need huge amounts of gain to sparkle either. As oblgny says, there’s something so right about them. And yet they aren’t exactly the most sought after speakers and go for prices that are punching way, way below their weight. I have no hesitation in calling Jim Thiel an utter genius of speaker design. Admittedly not the easiest speakers to drive, but who cares when the sound is so gloriously complete. Perhaps someone could answer if these were the only full range Thiel speakers? I can confirm that the Kentucky service dept is alive and well and I just bought new spikes from them a couple of weeks ago. They don’t do the rounded tip ones any more however.

As a slightly negative footnote, while I'm pleased that the new regime at Thiel has allowed the service dept to stay alive, the new designs are not worthy of the brand. You'd at least think they'd retain the coherent source concept, wouldn't you. Presumably they purchased the IP too?

Thank You- claero

tell me, which model is the 2.3i ?  What other gear, including cabling, are you using in your system?

proud owner of thiel 2.2 and 2.3 i . thiel have one of  the best dynamic i heard so far (may be i heard too less).

if your amp have enough current , the tweeter and woofer can push or stop in a super speedy focus way that i still trying to find other speaker may do as well .

the only weakness they need warmer sound amp on the female vocal especially for the newer model like 2.3i but the 2.2 was fine . 

anyone can recommend any brand to upgrade for me?

thanks

As we gear up for the holiday weekend guys, Happy Listening!