I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model? Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
as we start a new year, I wanted to express my gratitude to each and every one of you for making this thread such a success in 2016.
It started off w/ post #1. Then reply #1 and completely took off on its own as others joined in to share their thoughts, impressions, even counterpoints and experiences w/ all things Thiel! Outstanding work- All.
Here's to even more success in 2017. -JA Fant Esq.
Happy new year to all of you Thiel audiogoners! If you want good bass with the CS 3.7 medium size room with good room treatment and a solid amp is the way to go. I personally wouldn't use them with a sub.
^A lot of Class D amps might find the Thiel's impedance challenging. Jim Thiel thought Class D amps were best left to sub woofer use, of course a lot of Class D development has happened since then.
Thanks Robin and unsound, for clearing up that it is only the deepest octaves that are lacking. In that regard I unconditionally like subwoofers anyway and will always have a couple.
I have shied away from Thiels in the past because there was always their reputation (deserved or not) that they were hot on top and because of the massive clean power needed to drive them. But now that Jim is not around it seems that their is a renewed interest in the speaker, a reverence being paid t the genius.
I have never seen the 3.7 in person, but it looks great in my opinion, if not a bit stunning. And I am thinking of trying it with a mega watt ice or ncore amp and tube pre.
jetter, I can only hazard guesses as to what Jim Thiel had in mind. But, first of all let's clear up the idea that the 3.7's lack bass, they have good clean bass until all but the deepest 1st octave. Perhaps, Jim Thiel thought that since most music (about 80%) is in the midrange, that there is limited musical content in that first octave, that many don't have the rooms to accommodate true full range bass, and if they did have the room, that deep bass might be better managed by his dedicated sub woofers. The only question I would have for him is why he didn't use the superior time and phase attributes of a sealed box design in the 3.7's, especially if he was willing to sacrifice actual deep bass response? Sealed boxes might have made the transition to his sealed boxed sub woofers smoother as well. A speaker capable of full range bass response would probably need to be considerably larger, and more expensive. As such perhaps more people and a correspondingly larger market share would see greater value and WAF in the 3 series with somewhat(!) limited bass response. Those who wanted deeper bass response could augment the 3.7's when space and funds availed themselves. Jim Thiel has hinted that the 3 series had for some time become the sweet spot as the value to performance leader in the Thiel line up. I don't think it would be unfair to suggest that the original CS 3's were the ones that really put Thiel on the map. I can only speculate that if Jim Thiel wasn't so abruptly taken, that he would have went on to develop more, even higher end projects that went beyond the 3 series.
The 3.7 does not lack bass. It is very difficult to achieve the bottom octave with medium sized cabinet designs, especially when using 1st order crossover networks. (Woofer must be expected to perform equally well several octaves above the crossover point.) Typically designers have used much larger cabinets or electronic equalization, but that becomes taxing on the amplifier. I was impressed with the bass output of the 2.7 and I'm sure if you audition the 3.7 you will not be disappointed in the bass output. I must add also that I agree with unsound as far as room size. Treatment for room interactions can make a huge difference in the mid and upper octaves. Bass, deep bass, would then be the limiting factor due to wavelength and the 3.7 doesn't quite get there.
unsound, why is it that the 3.7 has a 10" woofer and a 10" passive and still lacks bass? Seems almost like you would have to have designed the bass out of the speaker. I am interested in the 3.7.
Jafant, as the 3.7's are missing the first octave; they are not full range. For that sub woofer augmentation is necessary. The 3.7's have their own different qualities, attributes. All of the Thiel CS models have the same placement recommendations. Many of Thiel's earlier models (pre-Thiel sub woofers?) had deeper bass, including all of the previous CS 3 series. BTW, a 20 X 20 room would not be desirable.
The real beauty w/ the CS 3.7 is to place it into a listening space of 20x20 (at least) and experience its inherent soundstaging, imaging, overall unrivaled dynamics. I suspect a smaller space might work, it would have to be something "special" though? Custom built and tuned room perhaps?
You are very smart for not passing on an excellent deal for the CS 2.7- We all have to take those once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to purchase gear for our systems. Remember, the CS 3.7 does require a large to very large listening room to really experience its full potential.
This is a great deal - There will be no more made! Chances will now be few to own Jim's crowning achievement. I have the 2.7 since I could not pass up the deal I got on them and I already had the Smartsub. The 3.7 is still world class in my view and you would need to spend multiple times the cost to better them - IF you consider something else to be better.
Santa suffers from the same misconception that my entire family shares when it comes to buying wine or any electronic gadget for me at gifting time - they think I won't like it because I already have enough of either to satisfy my curiousity.
However, I found a bunch of vinyl under the tree with my name on it this year. The new Stones, the new Jack White, and a few others. My soon to be twelve year old niece took no small delight in being instructed how to operate my gear, how to handle an LP, and how to appreciate the difference between digital and analogue. She's rather adept at cleaning the vinyl, too.
Of course almost everyone else appreciated the sound from my Thiels and a few expressed interest in becoming Thielistas themselves.
Janfant, my system is quite modest compared to all of those here. A Prima Luna preamp and amp to drive the study speakers which are PSB Imagine Bs and a Phase Linear 700 Series II rebuilt with White Oak innards and speaker protection. Sources my rebuilt B & O 8002 turntable with Jolida tube phone stage and a McIntosh MCD7008 changer or an Exemplar modded Oppo for SACD. The Mac plays through a Schiit Multibit Gundnir DAC. i have nothing fancier than low oxygen gold plated interconnects and financial focus is now on final upgrades to house before I retire later this year. i do enjoy a record collection of rock albums dating back to the late 60s and have always had the best turntable I could afford so most are in better condition than I've found recent purchases rated mint or near mint to be. my tastes of late have been more to jazz and I swear the Thiels were designed for reproducing saxophone music. 'My biggest drawback is that out house layout and my work habits dictate the the stereo rack be in the study (14 x 16) that the Imagines serve well) while my cables to the Thiels require a 30+ foot run. The Thiels fill an open living/dining are with high ceiling to open 2nd floor hallway while barely stressing the amp. Even with the White Oak rebuild, I'm conscious of the Flame Linear history and have a cooling fan directed at the heatsink with a thermal sensor hanging above it set for 78 degrees and it only kicks in if the room becomes warm from the living room fireplace. It's capable of almost 500 wpc but I wouldn't trust it to double down twice to power something like the Thiel 5s without over heating. Almost all has been put together used. I'm more than happy with the 2.4s but might ask Robb's advice on upgrading the crossovers. Most likely I'll do nothing except in the unlikely event Mike decides to sell the 6s or another pair of 6s or 7s comes available. im curious about how the 7 series compares as former top of the line to the CS6.
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