I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model? Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Yes! these are very fine CDs and SACDs. I love collecting these "test" or "demo" discs. Stockfisch, FIM, DMP, Linn, Naim...etc., all have something special to offer the listener.
I want those (3) Accuphase SACD titles from Japan, so far, I have not found an USA seller.
Are you listening to the selections on your Ayre or Sony ES?
as we both know, careful gear selection and proper cabling, can yield a spooky/realistic system. IME, this is what our wonderful hobby is all about.
My 1st taste of the prowess of Thiel loudspeakers was in a very simple, cheap in price, 2-channel set-up. NAD 565BEE cd player, an older Creek integrated (4 or 5 series) and Audioquest cabling throughout. Luckily I had on -hand very familiar music to demo this set. I was hooked after 1 or 2 songs. Such richness in the music unlike I had never experienced. Even though the Creek was light weight on both power and current, I can only imagine if that company built an amp close to Pass Labs (higher power + higher current). I can easily live w/ this particular system. It was that synergistic.
I hate the fact that newer NAD and so many other Audio companies choose to source china in the manufacturing. I do not subscribe nor buy gear (knowingly) made in china.
Thiel speakers are really very, very good and should have the best amplification ...I haven't heard Class D amps sound good enough for them...just sayin.
I have not heard the newest Primare amp like the one oblgny uses? I have heard an older Primare and it did sound pretty good in an all Primare system w/ Vienna Acoustics loudspeakers. That was way back in 2006 for reference.
So far as the Primare A34.2 amplifier goes, I've not found a reason yet to replace it right now. (Indeed I want to return to a Pass Labs but even used pricing has soared recently so...) The Primare is 150 watts into 8ohms and - according to a direct response via email from them - "almost double that" into 4ohms. I believe I paid $3k for it under a year ago which, given its modest power consumption and exemplary build quality is a very fair investment IMHO. Comparatively speaking it leans toward a warmer sonic presentation than my Pass X150.5 did, but that's pretty much true of anything compared to the Pass. (Including my CJ MF200 which I still have and use once in a while for kicks.). Pass, like Thiel, reveals - these speakers are an excellent litmus test for any amp/preamp.
I believe once you go above my model, Primare goes to A/B manufacture, and a helluva lot more power to boot. I also use a Primare A32 phono preamp in my system which has made my vinyl sonics immensely improved. Wow. I've mentioned that before and it's true.
On Friday I hooked up my "vintage" Pioneer SX1080 receiver (120 watts into 8 ohms, no info out there as to its 4ohm rating) to my CS3.5's and...damn if it didn't still sound great. Different? Yes, but impressive how good it sounded being 36 years old. And man does it still look good.
Basically, I'm willing to try any class of amp. I've had a First Watt M2 class A which led me to the Pass X150.5 class A/B, etc., etc., and so forth. I read here and rarely elsewhere about such things and then go about a real world listen. I bought my CS3.5's blind - based upon things I've read here and elsewhere - no audition, no friend had a pair... Curiousity and occasionally viable funds have allowed me to do this.
Besides, it's a helluva lot easier to swap out components than it is to move these damn things around. Sheesh!
Laughing... hang in there oblgny. You have to admit that this a fun hobby. You are a CJ fan like me- I want to demo their new integrated-CA150/ 150SE. My reference is the 350SS Premiere power amp.
Dave.... If Jim Thiel was still around today I'd trademark the term "Thiels Reveal" and give it to him for nuttin'. I coined that phrase after selling off a pair of Maggie MMG's - which at the time I was utterly pleased with - until I got the 3.5's, that is. I continue to like and even be impressed with Magnepan having within a year gone through their 1.7 and most recently their .7 and liking them but...they're just too imposing and far too finicky regarding placement.
Wow, I thought, the beautiful mids and highs of the Maggies but with more cowbell. (Bass.). The 3.5's delivered bass with that "bounce" that I look for. Not that colored emphasis one gets from smaller speakers or even similar/larger ones, just bass that sounds "instrumental" to me -to coin another phrase. (Or am I co-opting it?). I guess what I mean is texture, an acoustic bass has pluck and tension, an electric bass has presence. My 3.5's make me appreciate music, not just reproduction of it.
Wow. Quite a glowing appraisal.
So far as the Pioneer SX1080 goes with the Thiels, it is entirely possible for me to be happy with it and the 3.5's should, heaven forbid, anything untoward occur to my basket of remarkables in waiting.
Funny that you mentioned how good Zep sounded through your piece -I think the Pioneer recognizes the signal and just goes bananas for it.
I should mention that all my cables remain Transparent cables, although I had to "mod" a spare pair to fit those dinky little pressure connects on the 1080's back. Actually, I bought the spare pair to do so. My first-ever "mod" of any equipment!
Thanks folks, keep adding to this forum. Always an informative read.
I have an old pair of CS-3.5's that I bought used about 4 years ago. I decided to check out the drivers the other day and took off the grilles. When I bought the speakers the drivers looked perfect. Now the center domes of both mid ranges and one of the woofers are dented in. There is also a small, linear tear in one of the midrange surrounds. I have never had the grilles off since I first bought them so it doesn't seem possible that the drivers suffered some physical trauma. Is it possible to have the center domes of drivers collapse just from using the speakers? By the way, the speakers still sound great in spite of the minor damage.
I am shopping for a replacement mid range for the one with the torn surround. I'd like to hear from someone who may be parting out some CS-3.5's.
richardp01, It is highly (!!!) unlikely that the domes collapsed from use, more likely from careless cleaning or incidental contact. Small dimples on the speaker driver domes are often inconsequential. The midrange surround tear can be tricky, as it is made of paper. It might be best to have it professionally repaired. I'd suggest Thiel https://www.thielaudio.com/parts-services-department/ or Miller Sound http://millersound.net/. I recommend both highly, and if it were up to me, I'd let price decide. As for the collapsed domes, I suggest you try to find or make cardboard tubes/cones with one opening of the same size or just slightly larger than the speaker driver dome under consideration. Gently place the appropriately sized tube/cone opening over the offending opening, and your mouth over the other end, then gently suck. Don't use a vacuum cleaner as it might be too powerful and detach the voice coil. Should you need to remove the speaker drivers, I suggest that before starting you have a small adjustable height table or step stool, a small cup, appropriate equipment for desoldering/ soldering including high quality silver solder (Thiel used to provide a small length of this, but I'm not sure if they still do) , an appropriately sized non-magnetic screwdriver, writeable tape, a marker, appropriately sized boxes and packing material for the speaker drivers. First cut two pieces of tape into 2" lengths for each driver to be removed. Then mark one piece of tape with a "+" and the other with a "-" for each pair of tape pieces. If you don't have a non-magnetic screwdriver, proceed with care. Place the height adjustable table/step stool top right next to the height of the driver to be removed; warning the speaker driver leads might be quite short. Put the screwdriver, tape pieces and small cup on said table/stool.The speaker driver magnets are quite powerful and can attract and drag a typical screwdriver with such force that can cause speaker driver cone tears. When using a typical screwdriver, place the non-screwing hand over the speaker driver cone without pressing down, then carefully place the typical screwdriver between thumb and index finger of the non- screwing hand before removing the first screw. Remove screws from speaker drivers/ speaker baffle, then place screws in the small cup. Desolder one lead from the back of the speaker driver, then place speaker driver on table/stool. On the back of the speaker driver there will probably be a marking denoting "+" or "-"; place the previously appropriately marked "+" or "-" piece of tape on the speaker lead that has just been removed. Repeat with the other speaker lead and put the other appropriately and obviously differently marked piece of tape on the other lead. Repeat as necessary. This will be quite helpful when it comes time to reinstall the speaker drivers. The 3.5's midrange drivers have a reputation for requiring "maintenance". Though they would appear to be of generic origin, Jim Thiel had these otherwise off the shelf drivers customized for his use in this particular line of speakers. The 3.5's haven't been made in decades. Should you replace any of them, you might want to keep any them around, no matter how damaged they appear for potential "rebuilds" should the need arise. Though perhaps a bit more risky, yet perhaps better value laden; another approach might be to buy another 3.5(s), using the parts you need and either keeping the remaining parts for future use or parting out the remaining parts for resale. FWIW, I might be interested in some of those parts for future considerations. Good luck, let us know how it turns out.
A lot of the pre-owned Thiels one sees here and on eBay share the "dimpled driver" syndrome as do many other makes. The pair I purchased a year or so ago from a fellow member and the sole owner did not suffer from the malady - and they're perhaps thirty years old.
The advice of getting in contact with Thiel for a rebuild - if necessary - is well given. A previous pair of my 3.5's suffered a midrange tear in the surround that I found necessary to send off to them. I believe the total with shipping back an forth was around $400. That may strike many as a somewhat pricey repair, but it is actually a minor investment in a product that is worthy of it; the quality and sonics of this brand compare very well to competitive brands way up the food chain.
$400! Sure the speakers are worth it, but I sure miss the old days at Thiel. Thiel's service was nonpareil. Back then if the drivers weren't obviously abused Shari Graham would only ask that you pay for the shipping there, the rest would be gratis, even if the speakers were well out of warranty.
Excellent discussion and exchanges of info guys! Way to go. Always an informative read from the experts. it appears that Thiel does still offer parts/service for the older models via Rob in Kentucky as above.
Well, I'm waiting to hear from Thiel if they have either a replacement driver or if they can repair the driver. I found someone who has a new Thiel driver for $225 but even this seems a bit much for a speaker that only commands a $500 resale value. It's kind of like putting a $5,000 transmission in a twenty-eight year old Volkswagen. If I don't find something for $100 or so, I will just drive these babies into the ground. For now they still sound fine. I am mystified on how the drivers became damaged.
Mr. Unsound:
If I parted out my set of Thiels what would you be interested in, at what price?
hope Thiel is able to assist you. IMO, no price of service/repair may be placed onto a fine set of speakers. The key is to ask yourself "do I want to continue w/ this model or try a different loudspeaker?"
T hank You! Gentlemen, for keep this thread alive and well! I have learned so much from each and everyone of you. May the good times, discussions continue.
richardp01, Your points are not without merit, but when it comes to the 3.5's the cost to value considerations become a bit convoluted. At their current asking prices the 3.5's might be one of the greatest audio values of all time. It would cost several times the going rate of the 3.5's to find another brand with similar qualities. Unfortunately if one were to simply replace their existing 3.5's with another pair of 3.5's, one might find the replacements have the same issues. So despite the apparent cost to value discrepancies it might very well be a good investment to maintain them. From a performance perspective such an investment is a sound value. As I alluded to earlier despite looking like off the shelf outsourced drivers, the 3.5's drivers were unmarked customized units made to Jim Thiel's specifications. If the replacement drivers come from a one time Thiel dealer you might be in luck. Otherwise, buyer beware. Again, I highly recommend Bill LeGall of Miller sound for consideration as well: http://www.millersound.net/millersound-testimonials.html If may add to the somewhat obvious advice previously offered; may I suggest that when removing screws start at the bottom, and when reinstalling screws start at the top. If you don't have an appropriate table/step stool to place in close proximity to the speakers, another set of capable hands belonging to some one with patience and willingness to work closely (intimately?) will do. I'm not currently in need of any extra parts for my 3.5's (I already have a few), but depending on condition and price I might be interested in grills, tweeters, and/or midrange drivers ;-).
dcockrum, I agree, and am also grateful that Rob is still available to offer his appreciated service. Still, $400 seems a tad rich for a rebuilt driver that might have cost about that much new. What drives that cost; time, materials? I would have guessed that Thiel could afford to do it for about half that. Thiel didn't just have the best customer service in audio back when Shari, Lana and Gary were there, but the best customer service I've ever had from any company of any kind. I guess they just spoiled me.
I haven't received an estimate yet, but if it is $400, I would say it's a reasonable cost for the work, but it's a cost I won't be willing to pay for speakers that won't be worth more than $500 after the repair. If I part them out I would imagine I could get $3-400 for the three undamaged drivers, equalizer, crossover and boxes.
Richardp01, IMHO, the 2.4's and 2.7's will be even smoother on soprano voices and massed strings. But, those later 2 series will not be as coherent or have the same depth and overall quality of bass as the 3.5's, and require much more expensive amplification.
Another informative discussion- Dave, Unsound and Richardp01.
You guys are in for a treat, as the CS 2.4, 2.4SE and 2.7- are all outstanding loudspeakers. Certainly a step up and more refined over the 20-30 year older speakers via Thiel. I would say that if you guys are into a more "vinatge" approach with your systems, then, seek out an audition on these newer, modern models prior to any purchase.
I respect your point-of-view Dave. when did Thiel stop using the Vifa metal tweeter in hid designs? The Vifa is a very fine driver indeed. It is used in many higher-end designs, along with, Scanspeak. Happy Listening!
The day I made my ultimate buying descision on the 2.4SE was the same day I had the unique opportunity to audition the CS 2.4, 2.4SE and CS 3.7, same dealer/retailer, same room and same gear. All we (myself & the owner) did was simply swap out the speakers at will for an A,B,C shoot-out.
The CS 2.4SE is actually on-par w/ the CS 3.7 even w/ those newer designed drivers. The "special" edition of the 2.4 loudspeaker is a little sweeter from top to bottom in my listening test. My room will not accommodate the CS 3.7 , as this beast, is too large and demands an even larger space to sound its best. The CS 2.7 is simply a smaller version of the 3.7-no worries there. Fellow 'Goner dgarrettson actually represents the manufacturer of the cross-over components (see his posts/replies here in my thread) is familar w/ these specific components and adds that better options are avail now.
It is re-assuring to learn that our speakers are still supported and can be serviced as needed per Thiel. In my case, I am happy that if my cross-over(s) fail or fizzle, there are better replacements or OEM options to consider. Future proof is in effect! I like it.
My pleasure- Dave. hopefully all of the other contributors will join in our conversation here to offer additional points of view. I welcome all to participate.
A pair of CS7's on here for $2190??? Even with shipping cost additional from Florida...? Anyone here have any spare common sense for me??? Woe is me...
I really have to stop coming here...my wallet is fast becoming as thin as a leaf.
The analogy of putting a $5000 transmission into a 28 year old Volkswagen is accurately made, especially when considering the current market value of the model. From what I see on this interweb thing CS3.5's are selling for under $1,000, well under that in fact - with most suffering from dimpled driver syndrome and/or esthetically challenged cabinetry. Does one spend an amount of money almost equal to the cost of a used pair on a single driver? My high regard for this model warrants that even though it may not be fiscally sensible. Then again, my fiscal sensibilities have not ever applied to stereo equipment. It's a weakness. Gawd, I love stereo equipment!
My original pair of 3.5's cost me $800 and I spent the $400 for one midrange to be rebuilt by Thiel. (Thanks, unsound, for your previous direction regarding that.) That included shipping and everything. My expenditure was made with the mindset that they were worth keeping for the long haul even though I gifted them to my nephew not long after that. Sometime later I purchased another pair of 3.5's here from a fellow member, original owner, for a true pittance. Lucky me, indeed. Were a driver require a rebuild by Thiel, I would definitely justify the cost now.
Anyway...seeing this listed pair of 3.7's has my fiscally irresponsible sensibilities in a veritable tizzy.
Ah, never mind - the seller just replied it's a local pickup only. Anyone in Florida? Scarf 'em up!
Agreed- any repair is only worth keeping the product for the long haul. It is never a bad idea to have an extra speaker or pair on-hand regarding the older models. Enjoy the Music.
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