The Snob Appeal Premium


I have learned that speakers are a typical victim of "Designer Label Syndrome".  Supposedly an $8 billion a year market (hard to believe) speakers are fairly simple beasts with little substantive improvements over the last 50 years. Ever since Paul Klipsch ( a character in his own right) read the Bell Labs 1934 papers and revolutionized speaker technology there have been few similar revolutionary improvements to the speaker. So- if you are an enterprising manufacturer of speakers (which are relatively cheap to build) how do you extract more and more money from the consumer ?  Answer: Synthetic demand driven by cachet' !  Like a pair of Louis Vuitton sneakers @ $650 a pair vs. New Balance runners @ 60/pr. It's snobby bragging rights stuff I'm describing here- perceived vs. actual value in a product. 

Here's an anecdotal example: 

I recently set out to build a high end mid-fi system (ARC preamp, power amp, Dac 9) for a large room "main house" (not a listening room) system. The goal was big, full, rich sound in a room full of furniture, chow dogs, kids and untreatable other things like 20 foot ceilings, multiple openings such as a balcony to the upstairs bedrooms, etc. Basically an audiophile's nightmare. 

I auditioned a number of speakers- Perlistens supported by JL Fathom subs, B&W Signatures, Bryston Model Ts, Vienna Acoustics Mahlers and Bethovens. IMO all of these are somewhat similar towers (except the Perlistens). The price point was not as important as the sound- given the limitations of the application. 

In the shopping for new or used I found a number of odd prices. The most unusual finding was a brand new set of Model Ts here in Audiogon advertised for $4K with a 20 year factory warranty. The dealer had one slide around of his hand truck and it put white paint smears on a corner of the Boston Cherry cabinet. Hmmm- 4 grand vs. 12 grand for a small fixable cosmetic flaw? I bought them. They sound fantastic. Some elbow grease and a furniture marker pen made the flaw vanish. 

I asked the dealer (Paul Kraft in Easton PA- great guy BTW) why the Audiogon Blue Book for a Model T was so low. His answer was "snob appeal". Apparently there is a big bragging rights  premium paid for having the UFO looking B&W Signatures vs what the snobs call the Bryston Model Ts "Axioms in a fancy suit".  I later learned that there are some prominent reviewers who refuse to listen to A/B speaker comparisons behind a silk curtain unless they know what brand is being scrutinized. To me that means "payola". 

Do the Model Ts sound better to me than the Mahlers, Bethovens, B&Ws? No. But they don't sound worse either (in my application). Do the above sound $8,000-$14,000 better than the Brystons in the listening rooms of the dealers? IMO NO WAY. To be fair price/value does color my perception much like a bottle of $40 Rumbauer Zin tastes better to me than $200 Silver Oak expense account wine. 

I'm guessing this post will anger brand snobs and garner snarky comments because their taste in sound is different than mine. Although this missive is really about personal perceptions of value v. sound I found my education on pricing fascinating and I feel great about finding amazing value in the brand new Model T's that needed 30 minutes of TLC to be at home in my family room. 

Moral of the story: Try em before you buy em, and look for value. It's fun and rewarding with no buyers remorse. 

128x128Ag insider logo xs@2xyesiam_a_pirate

@mikelavigne congrats on being able to build an off-the-chain system. I'll be able to use your incredibly detailed virtual system to prove to my wife that I'm not crazy.

OP. The Louis Vuitton analogy is weak; they wear out (or rather, become soiled) just as fast as New Balance. A better luxury-goods analogy is a fine time piece. My watch tells the time, but it's 15 years old, looks brand new having been factory refurbished once, and will outlive me. The same could be said for high quality audio gear; R&D, quality materials, workmanship. These attributes don't come cheap.

The difference is bragging rights, or lack thereof.

As an example, this long weekend I'd had a few friends and work colleagues over for a cook out. None of them are into hi-fi (or mid-fi). 

They were intrigued by my new tube amp. Some had seen the prior one. One person asked if the tubes were functional or just for looks!

There was no discussion about brand or cost. No one asked and I didn't tell.

There was a discussion about the music I played though.   

"Don’t waste your money on a new set of speakers
You get more mileage from a cheap pair of sneakers”

B. Joel, in case you've forgot...

*wry sigh*G*

...still true, but in varying and varied degrees, as pointed out above by those who can afford the entry tickets..and I'm not in competition by any means...

,,,nor interested anymore, either.

I only have to impress myself at this time and place with the means 'n green I've for the pursuit.  And 'being happy' means more than impressing those who'll never hear where I've been and currently am....

"I took off in thе dead of night
But before I did, got my affairs in ordеr and my boots on
The Hallelujah choir needs a score
And they're knocking at my door, let them knock some more

They're saying I need a little, direction
But following the leader gonna turn me off the religion...."

Spoon, The Hardest Cut

Deal....but I do wear long sleeves...;)

Enjoy the music, not the method.

"Like a pair of Louis Vuitton sneakers @ $650 a pair vs. New Balance runners @ 60/pr. It's snobby bragging rights stuff I'm describing here- perceived vs. actual value in a product."

Perceived value is more complex than that.  If I can sell the LV sneakers on eBay for $550, surely their real value is $550?  And what is the real value of a fake pair of LVs that sells on eBay at $200?

 

@rudyb 

Are you sure that's real?

OK I don’t want to insult you, but you really did listen to a lot of cheaper mdf partial board or wooden speakers. These sound like boxes.

B&W is kind of bottom or the Barrel with Dynaudio and KEF and all that stuff and is lower tier. Good speakers tend to cost the same as a luxury BMW or Mercedes for a reason. My speakers were $58,750…So about 10%-15% goes to the distributor, 50% goes to the dealer…they cost about 10,000 to manufacture and 2000-3000 to ship on a pallet on a crate.
So now you understand how everybody’s getting paid, they need to make that kind of money to be able to sell you these things because at the higher end, there’s less and less volume. A BMW or Mercedes is only make about a 12-16% profit because they sell almost a million cars a year. A Lamborghini has about a 30% profit built in and they only sell a couple thousand cars a year.

The ultra high-end speakers is only a couple hundred a year and the crazy 100k speakers are a few dozen a year sold. As you go up the ladder, now you understand why the profit has to be high for it to make a business case.

When you spend over $10,000 in parts just to make a speaker you’re gonna get some great speakers….when it’s 1500-3000 your speakers are going to be over 10-15 grand and be made with midfi parts.

A reviewer for the absolute sound only makes about $500 for the review by the way! The industry is really full of people who love music. Most audio reviewers have other jobs.