The Levinson 33h? Pros and cons?

tmbenn6 posts12-11-2018 9:16pmPrice points lol is that your thing just troll people and ask stupid questions 12,20,50  

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YES!  I'm pretty sure it's just a bot trying to get the post count record!

porschecab The 33H’s, though lack a bit of power for ’aggressive’ listening periods

Your taking the piss yes?? This amp can arc weld off it’s speaker terminals.

Stereophile measuered:

8ohm = 265W

4ohm = 500w

2ohm = 900w

"As we don’t have a dummy 1 ohm resistive load capable of sinking the almost 2kW!!!! that the Mark Levinson is presumably capable of putting out into this load, I wasn’t able to check its clipping power into 1 ohms. However, the fractional decibel drop in dBW each time the load is halved suggests that this amplifier behaves as an almost perfect voltage source."—John Atkinson

In this load graph of 8ohm 4ohm 2ohm and a simulated speaker load one, that is usually a wavy line that is not flat because the amp can't drive the simulated load without dropping power at certain impedance, in this instance it is dead flat and you can't see it.

  https://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/M33fig1.jpg

Unlike many others that can't stay flat and act like a tone control "grey trace".

https://www.stereophile.com/images/718BP21fig01.jpg

Cheers George

Glad to hear you like your 53’s are getting it done for you! They are beautiful looking amps!!

I upgraded to the ML-53's from the 33H and they are an improvement both in power delivery, resolution, and do not run as hot. But sound wise they are cut from the same cloth. You should have the 33H's serviced at some point since they were manufactured a very long time ago, and it will cost you $$$$.  But they are excellent and have a lot more current delivery than the 150W/CH rating. And they are heavy! Pick them up with a friend to help you. Madrigal hit their peak when these amps were made for audiophiles with demanding speakers (read-Wilson with low impedance curves). Of course the 33's are even better but were hard to manufacture due to high demand (by the super-power freaks). The 300W per channel and a 220V outlet was std. Good luck with that. Of course Boulder still insists that you do that even now... I like the 53's just fine, so no offense to Stereophile Magazine, but I have extensive experience with both amps. You can have your Dartzeel $150,000 amps. Nothing short of a hand-built tube amp with all silver wiring should cost half that much...

I was concerned about the caps as well but as good as these amps are I will be happy to replace them when they go. 

Price points lol is that your thing just troll people and ask stupid questions 12,20,50  
If you get a chance to grab a pair it is bar none the best amps I’ve heard to date. 

My concern with the 33H amps would be did they use the same problematic capacitors as used in the 300 series amplifiers.  

tmbenn
what are the price points of No. 33h, 53, 436 amps ?
Happy Listening!

Just bought a pair of 33’h amps. Replaced the 436. The 436 is not even in the same league as the 33h. I still like the 436’s they served me well for years with the exception of having to get the vg board replaced in one amp. These 33’hs are bar none the best amps I have ever heard in my life. I Haven’t had the pleasure of hearing the 33.  I have also auditioned the 53’s, they were very fast but too analytical and bright sounding for my taste. 

I own Studios, and have since 2001 or so (with a short break in 2003). I've spent a lot of time listening to Revels with various amps, and have heard them with a wide variety of Madrigal gear (Proceed AMP5, ML 336,33H,33,43x), Krell (from the integrated up to the latest FPB), Aragon, Music Reference, Linn, and most recently, Lamm. I use the Lamm M2.1s (200wpc hybrid monos) on my Studios now, and they are by far the best I've heard. As long as I'm using a non-SET friendly speaker, my amplifier of choice will be the hybrid Lamms.

You may have a bit more headroom if you are bi-amping with four 400 series amps, but the 33H (and 33) use power regeneration, and feature better parts quality than the roughly half the price 400 series (the 33H and 33 were designed and made at the zenith of the two-channel market in the mid/late 90's -- Madrigal, like most other manufacturers trying to survive and profit in a market that is now 90% home theater, moved to more affordable, more compact, home theater-friendly amps with the 400 series). If your system is primarily used for home theater, then there is no need for 33H's. On the other hand, if your system is primarily for music, the 33H should be better.

I run my Salons with 130 watt/channel triode tube amps (VAC 140/140 Mk. III's). The best sound I have ever heard from Salons is my friend's pair, which is powered by CAT JL-1 Limited Edition tube monoblocks. Of course, very few tube amps will drive Salons properly due to their low impedence in the bass -- solid-state is much safer with these speakers.

I use 33h amps (driving Nova Utopia Be’s) and find them to offer massive amounts of power (more than what I would ever need) over all types of music. They deliver incredible bass and/or volume if need be without stress. (I must add that my version runs at 230V/20A with filtered mains power). I am surprised at your need for so much power even though Revel’s have a lower sensitivity of 86db.

My previous amp was the 432 and have also listened to Halcro’s (not impressive and am in agreement with French_Fries assessment). The 432 is simply outclassed by the 33h.

Pros: musical, transparent…
Cons: brutal at revealing weakness in upstream components/cables

After looking at your system (btw – I also use SR cables), I suggest:
1. Swap 436s for a pair of 33h’s (and use filtered power as 33h current gain section doesn’t use regenerated AC)
2. Upgrade Revel’s to speakers that offer higher efficiency – Maxx 2 or Nova. These go low and would therefore not need additional subs and are mono-wired.
3. Use SR absolute reference interconnects between 32 and 33h.
My preference is for less components and cables…

Hope this helps.

Cons: Global warming.

i have 33h's and eggleston andra-2's. every time i listen i get chills- realistic yet musical- not analytical at all. incisive, dynamic, lifelike. i wonder how the 33's sound compared to the 33h's leaving aside the huge difference in power- i only heard the 33's once a long time ago. the dealer said they broke their hand truck trying to move them...! i think "most" people would agree the
33h's are a bit more practical, but when you get right up on top of them, even they are massive. i usually don't like to overstate things, but i really love these amps. reference?
yeah, okay. sure. i recently heard halcro's, but soundwise they were "clean and clear" but uninspiring; as for pass aleph amps, i could listen to them all day.

SGR -

The 33H's, though lack a bit of power for 'aggressive' listening periods, they still stomp the 436s in EVERY respect. The Salons will prefer their massive damp factor, huge current and you will enjoy their sound much over the 436s. Don't get me wrong, the 436s are nice, but they are not the 33H's.

I have heard the 33s, 33Hs, and 436s quite a bit. This would include the following:

B&W Signature 800s, 2 pair in a room.
Wilson Audio WP V's, 2 pair in a room.
Wilson Audio WP VIs, 2 pair in a room.
JBL K2S9800SE, 2 pair in a room.

Each set we experimented with the 4 33's, 4 33H's, and 4 436s.

We actually ran the ML40 with a 7 pack of 436s, biamping the front stage with all of the above.

Now, the funny part? We ended up with the JBL S800s running as monoblocks to the K2S9800SEs. That is a great match and magical amplification to that speaker. That amp to other speakers sucks, but to the K2, awesome.

The Revel and B&W need more current than the JBL amp can deliver and the 33H (or the Krell FPB-350MCx / FPB-450MCx) are probably the absolute best match for these speakers.
Now, I would be remiss to omit the LAMM amps, but with limited experience with LAMM, I can't comment much. Krell and Levinson are GREAT with the Revel and B&W.

Hope this helps.

Dan

if the 33's could not deliver.....then this is not their problem ! IMHO.