perhaps the question can be rephrased, for example:
"what speaker would you be willing to live with for a long time ?"
my answer would be : stacked quad esls and apogee duetta signature |
Mrtennis, Quad ESLs are good, but having owned them thirty years ago, I would not consider them the best I have heard. There is so much interaction between front end, amps, cables, and speakers that I think it is hard to say what the best speaker might be. |
The question is fine, it basically asks what the best speaker is that YOU have heard. That means nobody can argue against that, EVER. It just says a lot about that responders personal experience. If Mr Tennis feels that the Quads are his best ever speakers he heard, well that's a reflection of his personal experience and taste. Who can argue with that? :-)
It pays to keep listening to different speaker systems and setups though, just to validate ones experience and understanding of how it impacts sound ... you do have the right to change you mind and/or taste! Especially with ever improving sound reproducing technologies and products. And Tbg, don't forget the room impact... |
I don't know if it was the room, the source material, or the associated equipment, but I was once absolutely captivated by Meadowlark Blue Heron's and wished I could afford a pair at the time. I recall I was listening to Stevie Ray Vaughans / Tin Pan Alley via a Wilson Benesch Full Circle and VTL 5.5 Preamp. That cut is a classic if ever there was one.
I never did like Meadowlark's updated cabinet design. I wonder if that was part of their undoing. |
HQD, the hartley-quad decca set-up Mark Levinson put together, many years ago at Lyric in New York. |
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Yes,I heard the HQD at Lyric,and at a lucky friend's home,back then!Superb,BUT....
Though some may question my taste,or opinion,this weekend I had the GREAT pleasure of hearing a "highly modded" and tuned to the "N'th" degree set up which consisted of modded Infinity RS-1b's,CJ ART,Lyra Titan-i,etc componentry...
The subject of "BEST" must be in context of room/system/owner's skills.
This system was absolutely amazing,and we played incredible LP's ranging from string quartets to orchestral,to jazz.
You name it,"this" set-up did it,to the maxx!!
This system belongs to the GREAT SID MARKS,of TAS fame!!
A "classic gentleman",and connoseur of great music/sound,on the "best" lp's!!...
The guy IS a legend,and has proven it on countless times,but......I was unprepared for this level of improvement in his always superb/full range/dynamic set-up!!
AMAZING,and I was lucky to experience it!!!
Best to all! |
Definetly my own DIY`s ;P |
Mark...I agree with your assessment of Sid's system.
Rick (RWD) |
Hey Rick,how are you?
Actually Sid made some significant changes that NOW vault the system to a rediculous level!It truly has to be experienced to believe me!
Best. |
Sir Speedy,
Would you say that Sid's system is "tuned" or "tweaked" for particular types of vinyl? I only ask because I have found that I have inadvertently tuned my system for older RCA Shady Dogs and English Decca's. Other formats sound good but the system especially shines on the older classical records.
Also, would you discuss the significant changes that have elevated Sid's system lately?
Thanks |
I have not heard a speaker that is more accurate, better soundstaging, more lifelike and just a pleasure to listen too than the Alon 1's. If properly setup they are mesmerizing- too the point of disbelief that the music is coming from them. I have been to several CES shows and have yet to hear anything that compares |
Fcrowder,I realize that my comments "must" be taken with a grain of salt,but "this" set-up at Sid Marks' home has gone far beyond anything I have heard!And I have heard alot!Over a span of 40 years in the hobby.I've heard Sid's stuff for the last thirty years.NOT close to this past weekend!!
That being said(I also owned Sid's speaker at one time,but could not match his AMAZING transformation in allowing "music" to blossom in such a thrilling and realistic way.Amazing really,as I have been privy to the Huge Nola Grand Ref/ASR stuff,and though stunning,it did not get me as involved as this highly tweaked out set-up owned by the "absolute master" of LP reproduction!.......AND he has an LP collection to REALLY die for!!!!
NO,the system sounds absolutely amazing(you simply have to take my word on this,or not)on any LP!!We heard loads of Shaded Dogs/Deccas and you name it.
First off,the room is fabulous,even though not very large.
The table/arm/cartridge is extremely well set up.At first I was not pleased to see Sid get rid of the fabulous(under statement)Air Tangent arm.Yet,the new 12.6(soon to be a 12.7)VPI/Titan-i has "finally" been set up scrutinizingly...by Richard Foster(another vinyl maven).....
THAT alone made a big difference from my last session,but Sid got a new(not expensive)cable,from pre to phonostage which simply was the icing on the cake.It is not even on the market yet,but his neighbor is the designer,and uses Sid's set-up to develop product.Along with new tubes,and a new mod by CJ there is seldom this degree of change there,but who knew I'd be THAT impressed...
To make sure I was not nuts,we went over to another friend owning the new fabulous Magico Minis(I love his system too).Sid "still" ruled the day!!Actually "The decade"!!
Stuff STILL to come(at chez Marks)is new teflon caps in all front end stuff,along with new CJ big mono blocks.I HOPE this actually is an improvement,as I cannot see it getting much better than this!
What can I say,aside from warning him that he can easily lose "this" magic if he gets too carefree with new additions.
Sometimes when you hit it BIG,you should know it,and maybe stop fotzing around!!
Best |
Sirspeedy,
You are correct in warning him that the magic could be lost with further experimentation/upgrades. After ONLY 24 years in this hobby, I have come to the conclusion that in the way audiophiles approach their system building, component synergy is not only paramount but also quiet elusive. I have listen to many high-priced systems that were not worth the price of the crates they were delivered in, while other more modest systems have had that magic that you speak of. I for one have abandoned the "audiophile" approach and have gone down a more scientific and knowledge driven path, in which I control the parameters either electronically or acoustically via processors as opposed to the endless component swapping and tone-control via cable selection. Getting back to the point, yes that window for that "magic" is quiet narrow and elusive; Sid sounds like he has the recipe and I would take your advice if I were him and not mess with it but (to use the cliche) just enjoy the music. |
Sirspeedy,
You really are a lucky guy....
I would love to read more about Sids system.
Maybe you could start a new subject on this.
You mention above, room ,system and owners skill. I totally agree.
Over the years I have heard a couple of modest systems that had no right to sound so good!
I credit the room and the skill of the owner.
Keep up the good work. |
Stilty,actually you seem to be pretty lucky too.I've seen your system thread!!
Best. |
my choice is VMPS RM40 :) |
I believe by far the best speaker ever are the Sonus Faber Amati Homage...of course on my price range. I prefer not to discuss the extra premium models |
ESP Grand Concert SI's driven by Wavestream Kinetics V-8 monoblocks, Messenger preamp, Brinkman table w/ Breuer arm.
Awesome setup at The Show in LA |
The best HiFi I’ve heard in a long time
Author: BrettG [19-05-2008 13:10]
http://www.tone.co.nz/Members/BrettG/my-blogs/two-channels/the-best-hifi-i2019ve-heard-in-a-long-time
http://www.tone.co.nz/articles/cracking-a-fat-parameter-sound-58
The best HiFi I’ve heard in a long time? No doubt about it. I know that audio memory is notoriously erratic but I’d be tempted to say that I may well have encountered the best HiFi system I’ve ever heard. A lofty claim indeed, especially since I’ve been fortunate to listen to a number of incredible systems in the last two years but this system is really special.
It’s definitely not the most expensive system around but it makes music like nothing I’ve ever heard this side of a band of musicians.
This is the third time I’ve been out to Jason Parmenter’s place in Muriwai to take in his handmade Fatboy speakers and the third time is the charm because the system is sounding better than ever. The 200Kg+ Fatboys are a genuine labour of love and of hard work. With 16” TAD drivers replacing the 15” JBLs that were previously installed and a new passive external crossover taking the place of the active electronic unit, the Fatboys are singing with a new lease on life.
The EMMLabs CDSA SACD player plus the full chain of LAMM amplification including the L2 Reference two box pre amp and M1.2 Reference power amps don’t hurt at all and it all comes together in a system that had me spellbound.
I’ve had a few occasions with small stand mount speakers where I’ve wondered how the designers get them to sound so big but this is the first time I’ve seriously wondered how a set of monster floorstanders can imitate the most delicate of mini monitors. I obviously expect massive bass and skull crushing dynamics from giant speakers like the Fatboys but the levels of detail and subtlety in that room are so improbable that it all seems quite surreal.
The combination of small speaker detail, electrostatic speed plus bass that wouldn’t be out of place at a live gig is a bit of a HiFi holy grail and Jason’s nailed it.
There’s not a single solitary aspect of the sound that I would like to improve or that I could even imagine could be improved. The music is absolutely effortless to the extent that I don’t really need to delve into a dictionary of audiophile terminology to describe it – it simply sounds right. More right and more natural than you could believe.
If I inherited a sizable sum of cash and had a room that could do justice to this type of system, I would have it installed and never think twice about it.
Of course being a HiFi nutcase, I’d have another room for tinkering, reviewing and auditioning other bits of kit but I reckon I know where I’d end up when I just wanted to listen to some music and enjoy myself rather than analyzing tonal balance or low frequency extension etc.
Tags: Parmenter Fatboys | EMMLabs | LAMM
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1 Comments
FijiGlen [27-05-2008 16:46]
I've read and heard many say there is nothing like the sound from a big full range speaker. After I audition Jason Parmenter's Fatboy speakers I'm a believer too. In fact Jason's Fatboy's are the best sounding speakers I've ever heard as well. Sure the EMMlabs CD player and Lamm amps helped, but there was something unexplainably realistic in the way these speakers radiated the music. We played a lot of different CDs and although you could detect the quality of the different recordings, the essence of the music came through and made the listening session more about the choice of music rather than the technical attributes of the components.
Interestingly Jason's room isn't that large (for a dedicated music room) and even though the speakers were positioned fairly close to the back and side walls it didn't affect the speaker's ability to project a wide and deep soundstage.
I originally came to Jason's home to audition a pair of Harbeth HL5 speakers. Although these speakers sounded mighty impressive through the Leben CS600 integrated amp there was something unique about the big sound from the Fatboys/Emmlabs/Lamm combo. Perhaps its the sound of unrestrained dynamics that's projected into the room in a effortless manner?
Like BrettG I'm convinced of the big speaker sound. If I could afford this combo I would. |
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Darkmoebius, I heard that system with ESP speakers at the LA show too and it was fantastic - one of my favorite 3 rooms of the show. My other two favorites were the MBL room and the room with the Rockport Mira speakers and Gryphon electronics. |
Without any doubt Quadral Titan Transmission Line 130KG each 15inch bass 4 or 5in mid and ribbon tweeter FLAT down TO 19Hz. I run Tannoy Canterbury SE 15s and I was jealous after hearing these! Superb on classical as they are on techno or trance. I will not forget them in a hurry. Have listened to Acoustat, Quad ESL, Apogee ribbons Ambiance ribbons, Klipschorns, Linn Isobariks Vaf ETC these Quadrals top them all |
The new Von Schweikert Unifield Three speakers are simply mind-blowing. I was lucky enough to get one of the first few pairs made, and they are stunning in their musicality, transparency, holographic imaging and expansive multilayered soundstaging. And they are hardly even broken in. I have been listening to a lot of piano music, and I have never heard a baby grand sound more 'right'. These speakers are special. I recently auditioned the Usher Be10 and Wilson MAXX2 speakers and while they can probably play at louder levels and dig deeper into the low 20Hz, they did not have the coherence, transparency, mid-range warmth and delicacy, and non-fatiguing high treble of the Unifields. Not that these cannot do pure bass, since I could hear the organ pedals in Saint-Saens piano concerto go far lower than the 32Hz specs on these beauties. Highly recommend an audition, and if you are in the Seattle WA area, you are more than welcome to listen at my home. |
This is an absolutely impossible question to answer without also mentioning what amp the speakers were powered with, or even the room dimensions the speakers were situated in.
I'm usually partial to my own personal systems, but that is only because I have each of them personally tuned to what I enjoy, and the type of music I typically listen too.
I have never heard a single speaker that can excel with all types of music.
My personal favorite system consists of Bottlehead Strait 8's, with a low powered all tube front end. I typically like to listen to acoustic music (female vocals), and have a rather odd shaped room with a 13 foot high sloped ceiling. The floor plan is 18x25, and I have the speakers about 7 feet out from the rear wall. The adjacent wall is all windows, that can completely open in sort of a rotational manner. I find the the sound quality is much improved with all the windows open.
With the type of music I enjoy, I tent to mainly gravitate towards speaker designs that use full range 4" to 6" drivers.
My primary system has a very small sweet spot, but when you sit centered. The sound is near heavenly for me.
It does have it's draw backs though. It's not very good with any music other than acoustic. And It has one very small sweet spot, If your anywhere else in the room, you tend to loose the soundstage, and much of the enjoyment the system can potentially offer.
When seated in the right spot though, I have never heard a system I enjoy more than the one I described above. In my house, it just works magic for my ear's.
I really believe nearly any competent speaker could sound fantastic, when properly placed in the right room, with the right front end electronics.
On the other side of the spectrum, I believe a great speaker could also sound terrible when powered, or placed incorrectly.
I believe the only way to find audio nirvana, is to experiment, and flip lots, and lots of equipment. If you move to a new house, you have to start the process all over.
This is where being relatively young, single, and without kids can offer an advantage, or at least even the playing field with the big time money earners / spenders. |
My new 3 way front loaded corner horn with 8 -15in drivers, 2 compression mid horns and 2 fostex amk2 tweeters. I havent heard anything else thats close except goto or Ale systems. And I could use these drivers if I had the cash. |
Skull:
www.rockporttechnologies.com |
FOCAL (JM Lab) has a new speaker due August 1st 2008, that I had the honor of listening to this past weekend in France. I was brought to tears many times listening and enjoying music that I had never been so involving to my ears and consuming to my heart up to this point. I wish I could say more, being privileged to have a few hours to really get to know the product over a couple of days in the factory. But, keep checking out the website to find out more. Yes, it's the best speaker I've ever heard, coming from someone who can hook up a variety of brands at my disposal I feel as thought I can comfortably say I've experienced it and know it. |
Hansonaudio, can you share what kind of music you were auditioning that brought you to tears? Thx. |
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Years ago I heard a Fulton J Monitor.....I always thought it was a great speaker....had everything. |
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My Klipsch Lascala's:)
in my sound room:) i have owned many speakers in the past 20 years.. just bought these a few months ago.. and i am the most satisfied i have ever been .Never thought I would say that about a speaker that looks like a washing machine....But I am:) |
I would go with the paradigm s8. Oh my goodness what a sound. |
no question, the MBL 101s once on display in phoenix. i thot before i entered the room that a woman was singing via a mic or maybe very loudly a capella. then i saw it was speakers, i walked all around the room and the sound field was so realistic i wanted them on the spot, then i saw they were $30K so you see that was way back in 1993!!
i settled for some Apogees then Acoustat then wilsons Watts and now i still own all but the wilsons but i have NHT T6s too - too many speakers man!!! i want the 101s - too bad i will NEVER afford them!! they are like what - $50K new now?? |
Mostly used in recording studios. Very rare -- almost impossible to find. |
N7369p,
I totally agree with you, those mbl's beat everything I ever heard. I have a hard time understanding how some don't hear what they do!!!
I hope some day if china copies any speaker it'll be the mbl's. |
i thot before i entered the room that a woman was singing via a mic or maybe very loudly a capella. then i saw it was speakers, i walked all around the room and the sound field was so realistic i wanted them on the spot Other speakers will do this. ATC for sure, but also many other speakers designed with as much care for the off axis response as for the typical flat on axis only designs. It is a shame but most people ignore off-axis response even if it is well proven to be a cornerstone to natural sounding speakers. Manufacturers know this and respond by concentrating on designs that have more extension (great highs and lows) - after all that is what sells. The stuff coming out of Dr. Floyd Toole's work in the 70's => Energy Vertias 1.8, PSB, and Mirage are worth checking out. On the whole during the 80's, there was a lot more attention to off axis response as opposed to the modern emphasis, which has migrated to bass extension and super-tweeters flat on axis to bat-only audibile frequencies...stuff that is only important on paper or in "my speaker freq response beats your speaker" threads. The midrange has been sadly forgotten in the battle of highs and extreme lows. Check out 80's designs - some are still made today - much the same as they were back then... |
Coincident Pure Reference |
Montejay, surely the redhead at the CES 2008 show inviting you into the Coincident room made the biggest impression on you ... :-) |
I guess the best speaker I ever heard was way back in the 1970's; a pair of Crown ES-224's at an audio show in Dallas. Two cabinets, the lower housing two 10" woofers, the upper 24 electrostatic elements. They were so impressive. |
I'd match my Watson-Labs Mk 10 speakers with anything. 17-22k and spacious, easy to drive - I love them.
Alec |
Alec124c41, you're the first person I've run into also with Watson Labs Model 10s. Excellent in their day but no match for more modern speakers. The Dayton Wright XW-10 subwoofers for the XG-10 ESLs (also own this combo) are virtually identical to the WL Model 10 bass modules, incidentally. One of these days it might be interesting to fire up both sets of speakers and make comparisons. |
with the diversity of opinions so far expressed, it is obvious that there is no best speaker.
i am surprised that anyone would assert that a particular speaker is better than any other speaker, at a given price point, when such a determination is so subjective.
we all have our favorite speaker, but none is the best. |
Alec, long ago I owned the Watson Labs. I sold them to a guy in Dallas. Much before that I had the Dayton Wrights mentioned by Essentialaudio. I thought the Watsons were better but then again the Dayton Wrights were very hard to drive and solid state amps had improved by the time I got the Watsons.
I don't remember why I sold the Watsons, but I have not been very happy with any speakers I have owned. |
Mr Tennis, obviously you didn't read the title of this thread, or maybe you forgot, after all this thread has been going on for a long time. The title is, just to remind you: "The best speakers you ever heard". That means Mr Tennis by definition that ALL the answers by the posters are correct, and are indeed the best speakers that the poster has heard PERIOD. So everyone is right, as opposed to everyone is wrong as you are trying to assert.
The best speakers I HAVE EVER HEARD are my Evolution Acoustic MM3's, I am not saying its the best speaker ever, nor better than speaker XYZ, but IT IS THE BEST I HAVE EVER HEARD. And that Mr Tennis is a CORRECT answer to the title of this thread! |
but I have not been very happy with any speakers I have owned. Norm, that is a crying shame. i suppose we all have our own particular definition of 'happy'. i don't want to put words in your mouth.....so i would appreciate you expanding on your above comment. you have tried every tweak out there; and more different pieces of gear than anyone else i know. why do you think you have not found speakers that make you happy? too high of expectations? room acoustics? are you more interested in investigating performance of other areas? i am not busting your chops here but your comment was concerning to me as i have lots of respect for your listening opinions. btw, staying 'on-topic' i would say that who knows what speaker is 'best'. since best infers 'best in all contexts'....which is a silly idea. OTOH the best performance from a speaker i have heard is the Evolution Acoustics MM3's in my room over the last month or so. possibly lots of speakers might thrive in this environment too.....but that's another question. right now...this is amazing. they are completely coherent and holographic, flat to 10hz in my room, dynamically alive, nuanced and involving, supremely detailed, and effortless in their presentation. a window into the music. and Norm....i am happy with my speakers. |
Mtkhl567, don't worry about MrT. He has the compulsion to place what I call his mantra, whenever he thinks that the opportunity arises. Best to ignore it.
Me, I'm still happy with my big Sound Labs. (:
For me they are "best".
All the same, I have to agree with Norm. If my ears are still full of the sound of real live music, a cloud of unhappiness settles around selfsame, should I fire up my rig. It is best to wait a while to regain happiness and this has been the same with all the speakers I have or shall still own. And I doubt that even Mike's room and a 10hz reproduction, (which would scare the living daylights out of me by the way, 16hz are already quite scary), would heal my of that occasional affliction. The fate of an audiophile who loves going to concerts. |
Detlof, I'm totally with you that there is no speaker system that can reproduce an original event 100% despite some claims to the contrary. Anyone who doesn't think that is the case I would advice to go to a live concert of any kind, but large stadium rock concerts really drives home the point. Some of my favorites live events are:
Pink Floyd at Wembley Stadium, The Nelson Mandela concerts in same stadium, Guns n Roses at Feynoord Stadium Rotterdam. I think the difference was probably the amount of adrenaline rushing through my blood helped by a healthy dose of expectation, weed and/or alcohol. Irreproducible.
But since I don't have that expectation from my system, I am quite happy with what it can do. And occasionally, when the wife and kids are away, the volume ... ahum the pleasure control ... can go up and brighten those amp eyes to the max. That can get my adrenaline going a bit, but its a long way off from real live. I'm already happy when music played through my speakers gives me goosbumps ... that's all I expect of my system to do very very well. And it does, very often!
To all audiophiles out there, the goosbump test is the only real "objective" one out there IMHO. You need to be in the right state of mind, but if you are, and there are no goosbumps, then continue your search... |
Detlof, i agree that 'live' music can humble reproduced music.....but not always. in fact; the odds are dramatically against 'live' music sounding very good at all in most venues. either too loud, or lacking focus, or not in balance, or bad listening position, or outdoors and lots of issues. 75% of live music have at least some of those issues in my experience. our brains can compensate for sound problems and we can still be swept along with the live performance.
OTOH the 'live music experience' cannot be duplicated in our homes.
there are a few local Jazz clubs and smaller recital halls which do offer consistently excellent live music performance.
regarding 10hz; my experience is that 10hz which has distortion is lethal and a bit scary; but 10hz which is controlled and effortless is really wonderful. it's more a feeling than something you hear. recently i made some adjustments to speaker placement and my bass settings which made subtle but significant improvements to my bass accuracy. it made a huge difference in the coherence of deep bass.....which allowed my body to stop tensing up when i knew that very deep bass was coming.
aaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh.......music. |
