You describe your amp as sounding "amazing" and the synergy between the amp and speaker is "marvelous", so why change anything? |
I thought part of the beauty of the Coincident line is that it's designed super high efficiency to use w/low power single ended amps, as you are using now. I'd guess that the Tenor would be overkill, and although it might sound nice, would really be "throwing money" at the issue. Have you compared to other top S/E amps? Less power could be best for you...
Not making a strong statement here, just tossing out some questions that others might be able to shed some light on...
Cheers, Spencer |
Onhwy61 and Sbank
Thank you for your responses.
You are both absolutely correct. How good can great get. If the Coincident amps where designed for those speakers, what am I looking for.
I think this describes my neurosis which is Audiophilia.
Case in point. When I heard the Tenor amps in Montreal, there was a calming effect that came over both me and my friend. I can not quantify this, but let me say I could have listened to them for hours with no desire to leave the room. This is what I am looking for in my own home. If upon hearing the new TV's, this feeling comes over me, than yes, there will be no need to change. I will try to keep an open mind. But, the only times I have felt this way while listening to music was with OTL designs. (Yes I know the 150 hp is not an OTL, but they say it is as good. Only listening will tell).
This being said. The better of the two sounds in Montreal was not in the Tenor room with the Parsifals, but in the other room using Lammhorns?? this with much less expensive corollary equipment.
Too much to think about. I will let you know how the sound is once the Coincident Total Victories are broken in.
Bill |
Welllll, I have had Total Victories for almost a year and I've run a bunch of amps on them. Here's my take.
First off, the speakers are a bit less efficient than Israel claims. I estimate 93 or 94 dB. This doesn't really represent a problem, but it's not a speaker you can run with 45's.
I have a pair of Coincident MP300Bs in boxes in my basement. While Israel designs great speakers, I'm not a fan of either his amps or his wire. I've tried the amps with a couple of different tubes, and never warmed up to the sound all that much.
I have a KR18 BSI integrated running KR 300BXLS tubes that sounds great in comparison - much better resolution, soundstaging and dynamics.
My main amps at this point are Wavelength Tritons - 16 wpc 300B's using the same KR tubes as I use in the KR amp. These amps are very smooth and easy to listen to, but a bit too mellow - not quite enough dynamics, and low gain which I think is causing problems.
I've heard Wyetech's new Sapphire 300B amps on my speakers, and it was a remarkable experience. They had the best bass, dynamics and clarity of any tube amp I've heard - by a country mile. They also have a band of brightness that made violins sound hard, and they don't have as much of the 300B magic as I was expecting. Others who have heard both say they sound much like the Topaz 572's. They were too solid state sounding for my taste.
My favoutite amp so far is the Audion Silver Night PX25. I've auditioned it for the last two weeks, and it has the mojo. No question, this is the best 6 watts I've ever heard - lifelike, relaxing, detailed and very colourful. I'm ordering a pair, with some upgrades that should turn them into teeny weeny little monsters on the Total Victories.
The other amp I'm getting is a pair of deHavilland Aries 845G amps, at 30 wpc. Everything I've read hints to me that they may well be a perfect match for the TVs, so I took a chance even though I haven't heard them.
So, before you decide on high power OTLs or hybrids, think hard about some of the great low power designs out there. I'm convinced you can find the calming effect you're looking for in SETs. |
Gliderguider
Wow!!!!.
That's what I was looking for. Someone else who has done the legwork. I do not want to say I am lazy, but this is why I love Audiogon. We can all share our experiences with one another.
I will await your follow up statements.
I too would like to look at other option. 845 tubes, 45's etc.. Thank you. |
I'm currently using an Atmasphere S30 with the TV's and its a wonderful combo. The S30 predates the TV's but I did get a chance to compare it to some of the cary set's on my previous speakers, Alon lotus. The S30 was much more transparent and faster and to my ears has a glorious neutral midrange that's as warm or cold as the source that's feeding it.
The S30 has plenty of power for the TV's but if I suspect the M60's would provide a bit more base slam and dynamic headroon and if I was starting with a blank slate that's the direction I would go. Regarding the Tenor,s IMHO, the M60's are their sonic equal and are much less expensive. If you wanted to spend Tenor-like money than the MA1's or even the Lamm M2 would be within you reach. |
I just purchased a quad of the new run of KR Audio 300b BXLS's.
This is a stunning tube upon first listen. As much bass as my ProAc Response 2 has ever put out, and highs that I didn't know I could hear. I have only listened to an Annie Lennox CD so this is a very preliminary observation. The Atma-Sphere M60's I heard a while ago with this speaker is still a bit better. Something about being more open and alive. I think this goes back to my observation that I am an OTL kind of guy. Having said that I am still hoping the Total Victory's mate well with the 300b's. This will allow me to keep my SET. I am going to try and keep an open mind. |
I have the Tenor 15 WI mono's with the TV's and they are a great combo. |
Here's another suggestion. Israel has the new Canary CA-339, and says it's one of the best amps he's heard on the Total Victories. Canary apparently agrees, because they've ordered 4 sets of TVs from him, and have told me this amp/speaker combo is a "perfect match". They're pricey ($13K), and they're push-pull, but they are 300B amps. You may never need their 50 wpc power, but according to Israel the dynamics re superb.
BTW - I agree with your assessment of the KR 300BXLS. My Wavelengths came with new WE's, and I prefer the KR tubes. Any 300B amp I get will eventually wind up tubed with KRs. |
Here's an update on my quest for amps to drive the TVs.
I took Israel's word for it and ordered a pair of the Canary CA-339 monos. They came with EH 300B's, and I've retubed with KR 300BXLS. All I can say is wow!. They have really kept all the 300B magic in a p-p topology. They're easily as musical as a good SET, and way more than some! The sound has a completeness in every respect that it utterly beguiling. They have effortless dynamics, very deep realistic bass (not tight, not loose, just fully resolved bass down to the limits of the speakers and room), black backgrounds, super low noise, a very smooth top end with the KR tubes, totally convincing image and staging, and superb unforced resolution right across the spectrum. They have the most realistic sound I've ever heard from an amp.
I've also been using the deHavilland Aries 845G monos, also retubed with KR power tubes. These are lovely amps for acoustic/vocal/small string ensembles. There's a warmth and completeness to the midrange that feels like wrapping up in a blanket with a hot buttered rum on a cold winter day. Just gorgeous. The high end is smooth and very sweet - solo violin is ravishing - but is a touch rolled off. They have higher electrical and mechanical noise levels than the Canaries. They can't match the Canaries' dynamics, transparency, resolution or imaging. The bass is noticeably rolled off, but this may have something to do with an impedance mismatch - the amps I got are wired for 4 ohms, and the speakers are nominally 10 (8 ohm wiring is a factory option). They're really nice amps, especially for that certain class of music, but fuill-range dynamic speakers like the TVs highlight some if their shortcomings.
The Canary CA-339 is the clear winner, easily outdistancing the other amps I've tried. It's the first amp I've found that satisfies both my Dr. Jekyll music-lover and my Mr. Hyde audiophool. People with total Victories should hear these if they can. They're pricey, but IMO they're worth it. |
FWIW, if I can chip in, the M-60 (and our other amps as well) have changed a bit over the last few months and years. You might try out a later set, or get the older set updated.
See also:http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/atmasphere_ma2ii3.htm
While these comments are regarding the MA-2, the changes that brought that to fruition apply to the smaller amps as well. Israel developed the concepts that fuel his speaker lineup on an older set of M-60s. |
The final nod went to the Atma Sphere M60 mk.ll.2 (with all three of their upgrades). We all have different needs as far as our listening priorities. This amp was my favorite of all I have listened to. The only other amp I would now like to bring into my listening room is the original Tenor 75.
I did hear the Canaries, and did like them. The M60's however appear to have more power in the bass, and by virtue of being an OTL, a little more open and transparant.
At this level, it is hard for me to describe the differences. There where pros and cons to all.
I did hear the new Tenor 300hp. It was paired with the new Kharma's? (the $60,000.00? pair), and the Audio Aero. It too was a great combo, just not my cup'o'tea. I like my music a little more jumpy and alive than this combo offered. |
Just got the Atma-Sphere MA1 Silver Edition. Wow, my M60's will soon be for sale.
With the Silver's, so far nothing else I have heard comes close. More base than I know what to do with, and I have a placette passive linestage. |
What kind of base did you put them on cousinbilly? It sounds like this base must have been made out of something real special for you to say you don't know what to do with the base Me, the only thing I ever do to the base is put the amp on it but you must have other ideas and I just wanted to find out what they were. How is the bass, by the way? |
I like it sauteed over a campfire with a little bit of butter and beer, thank you.
Bill
PS english as a second language, sorry about the base. |
I am expecting the TVIIs this week and was thinking about a Cary 805 SE (Special Edition/the predecessor to the Anniversary Edition...supposed better than the stock 805) I currentyl have CJ Premier 12s that were driving my MAggie 3.6s and wa going to try them but they are probably overkill at conservative 140WPC. Any thoughts or experience on either the Carys or the CJs woudl be appreciated. |
I am very happy with my Atma-Sphere MA1. They are also 140 wpc. They are a better match than my 60 wpc M60's. |
