Ditto mi amigo.
Tim
Television technology - where are we?
A neighbor recently installed a 82" Samsung 4K tv. I was fairly impressed and thinking about doing the same. Is there other manufacturers, models and or sizes I should consider. I want to make this purchase and have it installed in time for 2019 college football season opener.
23 responses Add your response
Hello nonoise, Yes, that Samsung Micro-LED technology does look very promising. I think each pixel being emissive is a big deal that's really the core reason that OLED and plasma have such clearly superior picture quality along with the capacity to turn off each pixel which allows excellent black levels and contrast levels. Interesting you mention the new Pioneer 4K Bluray players, I was just looking at the Pioneer, Panasonic and Sony top 4K models and they all look promising, too. I was trying to buy an Oppo -205 just when they announced they'd be leaving the market and I wasn't able to get one. I've been looking for a comparable 4K player similar to the Oppo just out of curiosity right now. I'm currently using an Oppo-105 now with one of the last 65" Panasonic 1080P plasmas they made that I was fortunate to buy back in 2014. My Oppo and plasma are still functioning flawlessly but I realize they won't last forever and it's good to know there'll be some good technology available when the time comes. Maybe a Pioneer 128K player with an emissive 128K 100" HDTV? Later, Tim |
Hey noble100, As for now, I can't see any advantage of 8K over 4K. It's starting to sound like the old horsepower wars of old back in the days of muscle cars. What I see with basic upscaling of 2K to 4K looks wonderful and actual 4K wouldn't look any better unless viewed further back and on a bigger screen, like you say. What I may get in the future is one of the new Pioneer 4K Blu ray players with the better and current Hi Def features that my OPPO 103 player lacks. From what I've read, these new players made a huge impact on the image quality that even the last batch of OPPO players couldn't. Also, that link that @ajnackman provided looks very promising. Even online, and at the distance shown, those images are striking. Given time the prices will come down but I'll probably be too old to appreciate it. 😄 All the best, Nonoise |
Apparently MicroLED is going to be the new thing - individual self emissive LED's. Of course it will be expensive when it hits mass market. Apparently its better than the OLED panels (brightness, wide color gamut) and has no burn in risk. https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/6/18168793/samsungs-75-inch-microled-4k-tv-pitcure-quality-ces-2019 |
Hello nonoise, I'm wondering if the picture quality of 8K vs 4K is worth it, anyways. I've seen 4K but not 8K yet. My guess is any significant pq improvements would be dependent on viewing distance and screen size. I know OLED looks great even in 1080P and I need to view the 4K within about 6' from the screen to notice the quality improvement over 1080P. Tim |
A point to bear in mind during all of this “4K” insanity is that IPTV and streaming services like Netflix et al are restricted by the bottleneck that is your Internet connection. True uncompressed 4K uses 6gb/s of bandwidth for 2SI and square division. There is plenty of opportunity to employ compression methods like J2K, to reduce the necessary bandwidth for true compressed 4K to 800mb/s, but even this exceeds most homeowner Internet service available bandwidth by a factor of 8 to 32.Most assuredly, as I can see the awfulness of it all on my OLED TV. It is, however, entirely wonderful to see and appreciate 4K when playing Blu-Ray movies. Even the sound is heads and shoulders above streaming. That is why it's worth it. Util they improve streaming capabilities, one can always knock it if streaming is the only metric. All the best, Nonoise |
Hello dawgbyte, If you're looking for the best deal on an LG 65" OLED 4K hdtv, I'd be looking at the LG OLED65B8PUA model. It's a 2018 model and you'll need to look closely at the features to make sure it has everything you want/need but you can get one now for well under $2,000 if you shop around. That's about $1,000 less than the 2019 model will be when it comes out later this year. Just an FYI I just saw it at www.newegg.com for $1,599 which is a great price and will likely be out of stock soon. It looks to me like they're clearing out the 2018 model stock before bringing in the 2019 model. I'm thinking about buying one at that price. Tim |
dawgbyte:"Tim good suggestion! I plan to visit Best Buy to do some comparison shopping and then buy online for less." Hello dawgbyte, I went to Best Buy, too, to check out my Panasonic plasma before buying online. I think it was about $4,500 at BB but got it for about half that online. I felt a bit guilty but that's too big of a discount to ignore. Going from 55" to 65" is a bigger increase then you might think since they're measured diagonally. Measured in non-diagonal terms, the size difference is better understood: A 55" has 1,293.3 sq. inches of viewing area. A 65" has 1,808.7 sq. inches of viewing area, which is 39.9% larger. A 55" is 47.9" wide x 27" high. A 65" is 56.7" wide x 32" high. I highly suggest opting for the larger screen, even if you currently believe a 55" screen would be sufficient, to prevent future buyer's remorse. If you need to save some money and are considering a 2019 model LG 65" hdtv, you should carefully compare current 4K model year prices and features to previous model year 4K models that may be discounted by some sellers. Here's a link to start your research: https://www.cnet.com/news/lg-2019-oled-tvs-start-at-2500-just-like-last-year/ Have you made any decisions thus far? Tim |
Tim good suggestion! I plan to visit Best Buy to do some comparison shopping and then buy online for less. I'll be replacing my Hitachi 55"Plasma, which is a stellar tv. I was an early adopter of HDTV and was very impressed with Hitachi - every bit as good as the Pioneer Elite Plasma's. For me the real question is size vs resolution/quality. I have a large dedicated Home Theatre room, so going from 55" to 65" doesn't seem like it will be a significant leap forward, but we'll see. |
8k is already here. So you can upscale the native 4k sources. Where the native 4k souce is sometimes a lie, being scale up itself, from a 2k master. this is done so they can sell you an upgraded 4k copy later. Eg,...IIRC, all Marvel Universe 4k ultra HD discs are scanned from a 2k master and scaled. So you never get the 4k scan. You are not getting what the box label says. 4k scans tend to be releases of older films, like the recent 4k ’Alien' disc set and...er.. Die hard, Predator, etc. Bladerunner.. pretty sure that one is a 4k scan. Where they have to bring quality to the table to get you to buy. |
I bought a Panasonic VT60 series 65" plasma 1080P hdtv in 2014 knowing Panasonic was exiting the plasma hdtv market due to manufacturing costs of producing plasma 4K hdtvs likely causing them to be priced out of the market. I'm so glad I did and, knock on wood, this plasma has been awesome and is still going strong with no issues at all. Of course, I'm restricted from moving to 4K but, at my 12-14' viewing distance, I don't think I'm missing too much except possibly the HDR. However, I realize it won't last forever. Currently my plan is to purchase a 65" or larger OLED hdtv when my plasma kicks the bucket. I've seen the latest 65" LG 4K models and they're the first hdtv I've seen that beats my plasma, even brighter and with awesome black levels and contrast levels. They remind me a lot of what I imagine a 4K Panasonic plasma might have looked like. If I get real lucky, maybe my plasma will hold out until even better technology emerges and becomes affordable. But for dawgbyte, I'd suggest he take a look at someplace like BestBuy where he might be able to view the Samsung QLED and the LG or Sony OLEDs in close proximity and judge for himself. There's also the enjoyment factor that comes with shear size, especially with sports and given very good motion performance. I know a 70" plus OLED might be prohibitively expensive but I don't think a Samsung QLED would be. Actually, I find the whole experience of purchasing a new tv very exciting and pleasurable except, of course paying for it. It's an extended pleasure, too, since you get a thrill every day you turn it on for the first time and begin watching. Enjoy, Tim |
OLEDs (all the panels come from LG) are very nice looking--deep blacks, color that is superior to other types of panels, and wide viewing angles. I sometimes see blotchiness in what is suppose to be a wide expanse of solid surface, and there are some motion artifacts, but picture-wise, they look really good. The better LED/LCD sets with multiple locally dimming LEDs as light source are also quite good, although they don't have as wide a viewing angle and the colors are not quite as "right" as one can get with a properly adjusted OLED. I know someone who deals the top models of these kinds of sets and the thing that disturbs me a bit about the OLED sets is that he reports more dead pixel and other issues with OLED than with the other kinds of sets. I went with the top of the line Sony LED/LCD set, and so far, I am quite happy with it. Price wise, when you get up to the really big panels, the LED/LCD sets are cheaper than the top of the line OLED sets. |
A point to bear in mind during all of this “4K” insanity is that IPTV and streaming services like Netflix et al are restricted by the bottleneck that is your Internet connection. True uncompressed 4K uses 6gb/s of bandwidth for 2SI and square division. There is plenty of opportunity to employ compression methods like J2K, to reduce the necessary bandwidth for true compressed 4K to 800mb/s, but even this exceeds most homeowner Internet service available bandwidth by a factor of 8 to 32. |
dawgbyte, +1 for LG OLED. The Samsung QLED 4K hdtvs are very good but, when seen side by side with an LG OLED, it'll be obvious to you that the OLED is clearly superior. The Samsungs are Transmissive, meaning they use a backlight shining through a grid of tiny red, blue, yellow and red sections of Samsung patented crystals to represent the color in each of the 4K pixels. OLED (Organic Light Emitting Diode) technology is Emmissive, meaning that it uses no powerful back lighting or tiny crystals and light is emitted directly from each individual pixel. Each of the 4K pixels contains an organic carbon based material that emits its own light individually from each pixel in the color directed. Each individual OLED pixel can also be turned off for excellent black levels and contrast ratios. The Samsungs and other LED hdtvs do not have the capacity to turn off individual pixels and therefore cannot match OLED hdtvs black levels and contrast ratios. Prior to 4K, Panasonic and Samsung plasma 1080P hdtvs were considered the best hdtvs. They were considered superior to other LCD (Liquid Crystal Display) hdtvs because of similar differences in technology. The LCD hdtvs used a powerful backlight shining through a grid of 1,080 tiny red, blue, yellow and red liquid crystals to represent the color in each pixel. Plasma used no powerful backlighting or tiny liquid crystals. Instead, each of the 1,080 pixels contains neon and xenon gas that emits its own light individually from each pixel in the color directed. Each individual plasma pixel can also be turned off for excellent black levels and contrast ratios. The LCD hdtvs do not have the capacity to turn off individual pixels and therefore could not and cannot match plasma hdtvs black levels and contrast ratios. The main point is that QLED is closer to regular old LCD than it is to OLED, which most experts consider a distinctly different type of television, much like plasma was before it. Here's a CNET article that does a good job of explaining in more detail the differences between QLED and OLED. https://www.cnet.com/news/qled-vs-oled-samsung-tv-and-lg-tv-2019-comparison/ Tim |
Too bad Panasonic doesn't sell consumer TV's in the US - they make a really nice OLED. You wouldn't miss your Kuro at all. Sony are also very nice apparently and both buy their OLED panels from LG who also make a nice OLED screen. I find LED screens look phony in comparison lots of brightness and over saturated colour but not nearly as natural. As always go out and judge for yourself I've been running an OLED since they became somewhat affordable and I don't miss my plasma one bit. |
With the laser mentioned by dweller, check out Next Tech on YouTube for how they work, the latest, and how to save some money by buying direct from China for say, a 100" screen. He saved a bundle on that endeavor. As for what you can buy stateside, I'd go with an LG OLED TV. Mine is almost two years old and the tech has improved dramatically. They've managed to boost the brightness to almost what a LED TV can reach, which by the way, is way overstated. LED TVs have been tested and found wanting in their brightness specs. What I saw at a local Costco (the LG OLED TV) froze me in my tracks. The price gave me the shivers too. All the best, Nonoise |
I think it's safe to go with Samsung. I have 3, including a 75" I bought a few months ago. Great picture and reliability. Some say the OLED can't be beat, and they do look very good, but they also have a more limited dynamic range, and they aren't that much better to my eyes for the price difference. |
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