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Talk but not walk?

Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


128x128michaelgreenaudio
prof
3,473 posts
 
glupson,
I typed a detailed reply to you, but my computer froze and lost it.Taking with it a bit of my soul.
I will have to regroup....and get back to you.;)
robelvick's avatar
robelvick
619 posts
 
Update:
 
I lost one of the rocks...

Instead of mourning my loss & having pity-party, I placed the remaining rock on top of my amp.  Immediate SQ improvement.  More to follow on that shortly.. 
drewster88
4 posts
 
Often we don't know what we don't know. Yes it's a cliche but that's because there's much truth in that statement. In my 30+ years as a self-defined audiophile and committed recorded music listener, my listening awareness has grown by listening to and hearing things that I didn't know existed or were possible. I've had many systems and listened critically to many different components and tweaks, controlling for other changes in those listening sessions. As I gained more listening experience, my preferences often changed as well. I enjoy knowing the theory behind a design, but I rely on my ears to tell me if it works for me.

About 30 years ago I purchased a set of Michael Green Audio RoomTunes corner tunes. They are the only piece of audio gear that I have held on to until the present and still use. From that purchase I experienced first hand the importance of room acoustics to the sound of my system, and learned that I had the ability to tune the sound of my room if I desired (which I did). I have engaged in the MGA forum and learned and tried recommended cost-free tweaks that had substantial valuable effects in my systems. I've used other RoomTune products as well with great success. Michael's overall approach is to have each part of the audio reproduction process from the source to the room be tunable if possible, just like the musical instruments that produce music. This certainly makes sense to me logically and intuitively, and has been shown effective many times over in my systems throughout my experience as an audiophile. Also, folks on that forum actually discuss and show what they did and how it works for them in their individual systems and if you want to you can get input on your system there too from Michael and other members.
uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
13,381 posts
 
Of course we don’t know what we don’t know and we never know what we are missing until we hear it.
I do not think many here dispute the fact that room acoustics play a huge part in our journey.
I do know that a fair number are also in the situation where due to location of the music system that alterations to said room just is not going to happen unless they like sleeping outside afterwards!

However I think the biggest problem was with how MG came across to various members, his attitude was very condescending to say the least, downright arrogant at times if truth be told.
There were some very good questions that were the most part ( unless they fit into his viewpoint) ignored or derided.
Not a particularly great way to "win" your audience over.
It may be on his own forum he is a little more open and free but I do not think many members who read this thread will bother to find out.
glupson
7,842 posts
 
prof,

Thanks in advance and no hurry. If and whenever you feel like rewriting, I will appreciate. I asked just because I saw it in one of your posts. I have lived without anything even similar to as much as a curtain for a few decades so I may make it without something new for a few more, I hope. As you may notice, I am not that big on tuning, tweaking, or even walking the walk. But I can talk with the best of them. If forced, I can even do poetry for stereo equipment chatroom, but do not like to be the second best so I will skip that.

I was serious about the looks of your equipment. It does look serious. In one of your threads you asked about importance of equipment looks. As much as sound. I have had 4 (four) amplifiers in my life and I belong to the group that knows what Hi-Fi means. My first one, during the teenage years was Rotel RA-414. My current one is....it is impossible not to guess. I bought it because of looks.
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