2. speakers
  3. 133971-104258

Swapping Wilson Watt Puppy 6’s for open baffle Pure Audio Project Trio15 Voxative's

I would appreciate any thoughts form forum members on the following.

I am considering selling some Wilson Watt Puppy 6’s and purchasing a pair of Pure Audio Projects Trio15 Voxative open baffles http://www.pureaudioproject.com/product/trio15-voxativ-open-baffle-speakers/

The price differential is not that great (the trios are £5,250 inc tax in the UK) and so I could make the speaker swap with a relatively small cash injection.  

I am in discussion with a UK retailer to loan me pair of Trio15's at the end of February but there is a cost (refundable if I purchase) and logistical fuss to the process.

I like the Wilsons a lot, however the lower bass can get out of control at higher volumes (my room has raised wooden floors). My rational is that the open baffle design will put less bass vibration into the floor because the energy is dissipated more widely and not contained within a cabinet.

The Trio15’s also allow future upgrades (for example swap in a horn tweeter) and they will also allow bi-amping via the DEQX, which means I have an upgrade path, as funds allow.

The downsides I can see would be:

  1. Buying new means there would be immediate depreciation.

  2. I may lose some slam, which I enjoy with the WWP's.

  3. I have read that that the imaging of open baffles is wider but may be less precise for individual performers?

I would be interested to hear from any other forum members who have made the move from traditional cabinet speakers to open baffle/Pure Audio Projects and any observations they may have.

Thanks very much.

soma70
18 responses Add your response
keithtexas
352 posts
 
From your description, it sounds like the only real issue you have with the Wilsons is occasional overpowering bass (as a result of your floor or your room). 1. I would try some of methods to couple or de-couple the speakers to/from your floor. There are many at all costs-here is one just as an example 
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SubDudeII--auralex-subdude-ii
 2. There are certainly many room treatments out there (from diy to expensive, which can make a big difference. 3. I would consider changing your speaker cable (don't know what you have, but I recently purchased some mid-range, older model (2012?) MIT cables that seem to control what I could describe as a loose-ness or modulation in frequencies and certainly 'cleaned up' any diffusion in the response on both frequency extremes).  But the fact that you mention the Pureaudio as something you would consider may indicate that you are looking for a different presentation.  Some people love Wilsons, or Magicos, etc. and others like panels or OB speakers, others couldn't live without the inner warmth of SET and the dynamics of horns. I would do a little self-inventory to determine "gotta have that magic midrange", and or "can't have boomy bass", or "must have wide open soundstage", etc. ... and go from there.
keithtexas
352 posts
 
Especially if you are in the UK, may want to see about a demo of these:

http://www.townshendaudio.com/hi-fi-home-cinema-equipment-vibration-isolation/hi-fi-home-cinema-vibr...
soma70 OP
153 posts
 
Thanks Keith. All really good suggestions and appreciated. I have thought about Townsend but they are really pricey for large and heavy speakers. I have used Herbies and DEQX DSP with some success but they are never going to control the levels of bass at higher volumes.

My system and cables are detailed on virtual systems.

My motivation here (apart from reducing the floor bass vibrations) is to try something new and also to create an upgrade path. 

I may may hear the Pure Audio Voxatives and find that they don’t compare with the Wilsons....it will be interesting to see if a 20 year old speaker can compete with a new one at similar (preowned/new) price points. 

statman's avatar
statman
285 posts
 
How far away from the rear wall are your WP/6's? I had a pair of WP/7's on a raised foundation and had a small issue with placement. I moved them out further in the room. Doing that smoothed the response for me. 
soma70 OP
153 posts
 
Statman. The rear wall is a max of 730mm (part of rear wall is closer -300mm) and side walls are 660mm. I have tried them further forward (about 850) with no noticeable difference. It’s not practical to bring them much further forward without bringing them closer together (which I have tried and this seriously affects the imaging). Thanks for the suggestion. 
soma70 OP
153 posts
 
Statman - just seen your system and v impressive. Congrats! 
keithtexas
352 posts
 

Maybe DIY some Townshend Podiums with these
https://www.ebay.com/itm/292100530301 , and a wood cutting board(s) or a piece of floor tile. ;-). The Townshend research seems to suggest that loudspeaker "suspension" is more effective than either coupling to or decoupling from - the speakers with the floor.  

soma70 OP
153 posts
 
Thanks Keith. Very creative! It would need some sort of damping as well.

I have tried putting the speakers on bamboo chopping board/sorbothane/slate base. It didn’t make any difference I could discern.

I’m sure you are right that suspension and the townshend principles would be more effective.

Really the bass is only an issue when I’m playing loud so it’s not a problem for most of the time. Listening to the wilsons right now and it will take an exceptional speaker to make me want to part with them!
douglas_schroeder
3,281 posts
 
Having reviewed the PAP I can assure you the experience will be holistically different. Prepare to be amazed at the variance potential between speaker technologies. Give time for your ears to adjust to the difference, and you will appreciate the nuances.
soma70 OP
153 posts
 
Douglas. Thanks for that intriguing advice above. I have also enjoyed reading your reviews on Dagogo, from which it is clear that theses are great sounding speakers, however it is also the fact that they allow for uprgrades and other opportunities for tinkering and tweaking with wiring and crossovers which is also very appealing.
soma70 OP
153 posts
 
Delete “however” above and replace with “and” !
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,841 posts
 
Having heard the PAPs, I can't say that they have any lack of punch! That seems to have a lot more to do with the amps driving them.
radiohead99
79 posts
 
I'm moved from a traditional box dynamic speaker to PAP Voxativ and then to PAP Horn1. 

@douglas_schroeder review had a lot to do with my decision. Given he also owned Daedalus speakers which I'm a fan of and moved from, I had a good idea what to expect. 

I think there will be people who would prefer Daedalus speaker over PAP. Daedalus is so inherently musical and sings with little/no effort. Tbh, I can happily live with either Daedalus and PAP.

However, when it comes to PAP - being open baffle, the details/soundstaging is better. No box speaker can compete with open baffle/ribbon in this regard.

The macrodynamics and bass is superb, thanks to 4x15" woofer. What I surprised with is that it doesn't overload my small room (15'x12') at all with bass. Not just that, I removed my corner bass traps and absorber from second reflection point. The sound improved more. They are very easy to sound good in a room. I thought open baffle needed more work to sound good due to more room interaction. That wasn't my experience with PAP.

Upgrade and tweakability of the PAP speaker could be a blessing or curse depending on your personality ;) I also should mention that support from the owner Ze'ev is truly fantastic. 
douglas_schroeder
3,281 posts
 
The flexibility of the Trio15 line is a blessing to inquisitive audiophiles. It scratches my incessant itch for variety. One of the very few high quality DIY-ish speakers around which does not require build skills.
Atmosphere, yes, it's very reactive to amps, wonderfully so. I have put from 25 to 1,000 watts on them. Pure fun, as not only the bass but entire speaker reacts differently. Power power more mellow, closer to Daedalus and with higher power more like a panel.

kalali's avatar
kalali
1,977 posts
 
The PAP speakers have piqued my interest since I heard them at the NYC Audio show. They showed the Voxative version and they sounded terrific. 
Regarding he upgrade path, it it just a matter of upgrading/replacing the main driver, for example from Tang Band to Horn, Voxative etc., or its more involved?
Also, what do folks think about the one with the Tang Band driver? That model is certainly more affordable for most of us but I wonder if one should just wait until they can afford the top line model.
soma70 OP
153 posts
 
Radio. Thanks for your input. Very intersting to note how they tend not to overload your room as much as the Daedalus could. Def something my current set up can suffers from. Also surprising that removal of some room treatments improved the sound. 
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,841 posts
 
With an open baffle, you want the room behind the speaker to do something. The reflections, if the speaker is properly set up in the room, are used by the ear to discern the source of the sounds it hears; IOW improves imaging and soundstage.
progrockfan
2 posts
 
Log in to respond
More to discover
80x80
B&W-OBX-805D4PR-BUR
80x80
TAD TAD Micro Evolution ME1
80x80
ATC SCM300PT