Supratek Tubes and Tube Swappin' for Everybody

Thanks JT, I'd love to read about your experience.

-L

I am now using TJ meshplate PX4s.These sound better than the EH 300bs.Maybe not as expressive as the TJ 300bs but tonally similar and probably tighter bass.

JT

In the Chenin, Can I disconnect the power supply from the rest of the preamp and just use the power supply to cook my new Bendix 6106 for a week? I will be away on vacation and was wondering if this was safe to do. I read this thread last night and I know someone did this with his Cortese but no one spoke to regarding the Chenin.

Has anyone tried the new Tung-sol "Reissue" tubes. I have just installed their new 6L6G big bottles along with a pair of brand new nos GE 6SN7GTBs in my Chardonnay and it is a match made in heaven. I am using a Mullard GZ33 in the power supply but like to try a Bendix 6101. If any of you guys have a spare one that you would like to sell then please let me know.

Syrah/Chenin tubes

I have a Syrah which is the same as the new Chenin (or Chardonnay plus phono). Most of the discussion here is about the Grange or Cortese or higher end models. So I'm not sure what applies to my Syrah. I'm currently using the following tubes from tube depot:

Regulators: Sovtek KT66 $49.95/pair
Line Stage: EH 6SN7 $11.95/pair + $2 to match
Rectifier: Bendix 6106 $39.95 ea

Are there better options for the Syrah? Can I even use the TJ 300B, TJ PX/4 or Sohpia 45 discussed here? Or does my unit not support the correct volates, etc? Other options I should look at?

I'm a big clueless here.

Thanks in advance!

Netexpress,

300B, PX/4 or 45 tubes are designated for various incarnations the Cabernet and Grange. These tubes are not to be used with the Syrah. Your instruction manual that was supplied with your syrah will outline the tubes that will work with the Syrah.

What is your budget for retubing?

6f6gt works quite well in the regulator position. NOS tube rolling in the line stage has been described this thread.

Hello,

First off, let's make sure we are only talking about the Syrah here.

You cannot use the 300B, PX4 or 45 tube replacing the 6SN7 tubes or any other tubes in the preamp without any modifications. The most obvious reason is that 300B and 45 have a different pin configuration, and number of pins, thus, different sockets required. The DHT (directly heated tubes) 300B, PX4 and 45 requires 4 pin sockets usually called UX4 sockets while the 6SN7 requires an octal socket (8 pins).

Let's leave the circuit characteristics of the Syrah for now.

regards,

Abe

Thanks for the clarification about which tubes may be used with the Syrah/Chenin. That's very helpful! I'm a tube novice :)

Powers - price isn't so much of a concern. I can spend as much as might be suggested if it will result in a corresponding increase in sonic results. I guess I'd put a cap on price only to the extent that the tube prices recommended are so expensive for my little Syrah but the resulting improvement is so small due to limitations of the Syrah that one could barely hear it than it might not be worth it. In that case maybe it would be worth looking at jumping up from the Syrah/Chenin to a higher end model preamp like a Grange or Cortese instead that can really take advantage of a better selection of tubes. Does that make sense? I guess it comes down to bang for the buck and living within the limitations of what can be reasonably expected out of a Syrah.

I was attracted to this preamp because of the extreme value it offers - best bang for the buck out there according to many and I haven't been disappointed in the least with its performance. But I lack knowledge in the whole world of tube selection so I'm a bit over my head in this department. If you have any suggestions that would really improve the sound of the Syrah I'll give it a shot. but if you think I may already be near it's limits and probably shouldn't toss too much into more expensive tubes for this model because it would be a better bang for the buck to upgrade the whole preamp I would take a look at that too. But honestly I'm pretty happy with what it has brought to my system so far. It is a huge improvement to the SS preamp I had before without any doubt. Right now its paired with a Pass Labs 250.5 and some older Watt Puppies. The tubes I have currently are the following from tube depot:

Regulators: Sovtek KT66 $49.95/pair
Line Stage: EH 6SN7 $11.95/pair
Rectifier: Bendix 6106 $39.95 ea

Thanks in advance for your help!

Hi there,
I got a Chenin just before Mick shut up shop and love it dearly.

If you can grab a pair of Kenrad VT231 black tube to replace the stock EH 6SN7. You are likely to get more body to the music and better bass. I've tried some Sylvania Brown base 6SN7, new russian made Tungsol 6SN7GT and RCA grey glass but still prefers the Ken Rad.

For the rectifier, i'm using the same Bendix 6106 and Russian Tungsol KT66 for the regulators.

I play vinyl quite a lot and thinks the Chenin phonostage is a star for a build in stage. But I did swap out the stock EH6922 with some NOS Russian Military 6H23N-EB from
http://www.thecableco.com/product.php?id=3887

Good tubes for not too much money but i couldn't help myself with a pair of NOS Siemens 6922 later on which were dearer but they paled against these Russian Millitary tubes, less sound stage depth, size and resolution. So not all expensive tubes are inherently better.

Incidentally, i've tried 2 solid state phono stages (still got the PS Audio GCPH) against the Chenin over the last year but i still prefer the Chenin by a large margin despite slightly higher noise floor.

Thanks for the clarification about which tubes may be used with the Syrah/Chenin. That's very helpful! I'm a tube novice :)

Powers - price isn't so much of a concern. I can spend as much as might be suggested if it will result in a corresponding increase in sonic results. I guess I'd put a cap on price only to the extent that the tube prices recommended are so expensive for my little Syrah but the resulting improvement is so small due to limitations of the Syrah that one could barely hear it than it might not be worth it. In that case maybe it would be worth looking at jumping up from the Syrah/Chenin to a higher end model preamp like a Grange or Cortese instead that can really take advantage of a better selection of tubes. Does that make sense? I guess it comes down to bang for the buck and living within the limitations of what can be reasonably expected out of a Syrah.

I was attracted to this preamp because of the extreme value it offers - best bang for the buck out there according to many and I haven't been disappointed in the least with its performance. But I lack knowledge in the whole world of tube selection so I'm a bit over my head in this department. If you have any suggestions that would really improve the sound of the Syrah I'll give it a shot. but if you think I may already be near it's limits and probably shouldn't toss too much into more expensive tubes for this model because it would be a better bang for the buck to upgrade the whole preamp I would take a look at that too. But honestly I'm pretty happy with what it has brought to my system so far. It is a huge improvement to the SS preamp I had before without any doubt. Right now its paired with a Pass Labs 250.5 and some older Watt Puppies. The tubes I have currently are the following from tube depot:

Regulators: Sovtek KT66 $49.95/pair
Line Stage: EH 6SN7 $11.95/pair
Rectifier: Bendix 6106 $39.95 ea

Thanks in advance for your help!

Just reviving this old thread as I have found what for me is the best regulator tube I have heard in my Supratek Chenin, that being the Valve Art 350B. I know there have been posts from others extolling the virtues of the WE 350B but that is SUPER Pricey! The Valve Art is $34.50 per matched pair from AES, and works great!

The sound is very open and spacious, with excellent bass (comparable to or even a bit better than the Sovtek KT66 I had been using) and an enormous soundstage. The difference was not subtle versus the Sovtek KT-66. So in my experimentation so far, I've found:

VA 350B > Sovtek KT-66 > NOS Tungsol 5881 > Sovtek 5881

Before I did the swap I did some reading about shunt regulators and found some articles stating that the higher the transconductance, the better the tube is as a shunt regulator. Although I could find no specs specifically for the Valve Art 350B, the WE version lists a transconductance of 8300 mho, versus 6300 for a KT-66, 5300 for a 5881, and 4700 for a 6l6GC. Based on that difference I gave it a try.

I did contact Mick to be sure the higher filament draw wasn't a problem and he said it was fine, so I don't think that's a worry - so far ~20 hours and no issues. I fine tuned the B+ voltage to remain at 300V after switching tubes (it was very close anyway) so the differences are not due to a change in operating point of the other tubes.

Just thought I'd share.

Thanks,I will have to try a pair soon!I always wanted to try a pair WE-350B,,,but the price,,,forget it!!!!The Valve Art s sound very interesting,thanks for posting!

Just for completeness, I'm running a Mullard GZ33 rectifier, and single triode 2C22 linestage tubes with the VA 350B. The VA took about 10 hours to mellow out - there was a little bit of brightness at first, but that smoothed out nicely.

Ait,Sounds good,I have a Mullard GZ-37 that works well in my stock Chardonnay,I tried the GZ-32,,and 33,but the 37 sounded better in my system,not by leaps and bounds ,,but noticeably better.I will try the VA 350Bs soon.And post my thoughts,thanks,Ray

Hey, can we dust off this old thread? I'm about a month into my ownership of a new Gen. 3 Cortese with LCR phono stage. I've read a lot on the Preamp Deal of the Century thread, plus this one, and tried to research the state of Supratek tube-rolling circa 2019. I have reached out to Mick and he's basically advised me to spend my money on more music, that tube rolling nowadays will produce "different" sound but not necessarily better sound. 

I've also read at least one post somewhere, in which a tube-rolling Supratek owner eventually came back around to preferring the stock tubes. Also, it should probably be noted that now, in 2019, there are fewer of the sought-after NOS tubes available, and they are much more expensive than they were 15 years ago, and there are multiple variants of new production 6SN7 tubes available, such as from Psvane, the Shuguang Black Treasure, the Northern Electrics, and so forth. I'll be purchasing a complete replacement set of "stock" tubes from Mick in the near future and that will help to set my mind at ease. But I can't help but be curious what the collective thinking is among the long-time Supratek owners who previously posted on this thread. Given the way things are in 2019, who is running what in their Supratek preamps?

It would seem that the Supratek owners have gone into hibernation. I previously owned the Syrah pre and loved it, especially the phono stage. I sold it when I had to downsize. Well I just placed a deposit on Micks Pinot stand alone phono stage and sold my Sutherland 20/20 phono stage. I am excited to get back to a Supratek tube phono stage. I am looking forward to tube rolling again, I only wish I hadn't sold off all of my W.E. 350B's. Those tubes are pure magic in my opinion in a Supratek, as well as the Tung-Sol 6SN7 GT. The Psvane, Shuguane, etc. are very good tubes but are not on par with the great NOS tubes. But there is absolutely no reason you cant be very happy with the stock tube set.

 any Supratek users out there feel like sharing their current tube compliment? I'm curious,  especially about comparing the new production tubes to NOS tubes that have been raved about for a long time. 

Cabernet Dual inbound! 

Hey guys, has anybody tried running KT-63 in place of 6F6G as regulators, or if it’s doable?

Have been a very satisfied owner of a Chenin preamp - acquired (used) in 2014. Primarily playing vinyl (60s-70s rock plus some jazz, classical).Tube lineup consists of: Gold Lion KT-66 Electro-Harmonix 6SN7Sovtek/Electro-Harmonix 6922Mullard 6688Mullardd GZ37

I know this thread hasn't been super active recently but thought I'd drop my experiments in here. I got my Cabernet about a month ago. Mine has a twist though. I had Mick put in a switch so that I could use wither 6sn7 or 12sn7 tubes. I have accumulated a large number of 12sn7 tubes over the years and now I'll finally be able to try them out!bes. 

I started out with the 12sx7 tubes Mick sent with the preamp, think they are labeled GE. It was a good baseline to start with but their limitations were obvious when I started to listen to other tubes. 

The next ones were some odd tubes. The 14n7 is a 12sn7 with a Loktal base. All you need is some adapters and they will work in the octal sockets. It's my understanding that just about all 7n7 (the 6v version) tubes were made by sylvania and are exactly the same as the equivalent 6sn7. The 14n7 tubes are interesting because they have the additional support rods like the super expensive 6sn7wgt metal base tubes. None of the Sylvania 12sn7 tubes had those supports as far as I can tell. In addition to that, these particular 14n7 tubes have grey glass. To my knowledge Sylvania never made a grey glass 6sn7 let alone 12sn7. I might believe that these were some of the suer rare NU round plate tubes except they are actually labeled Sylvania... Anyway, I had to hear them. In comparison to the 12sx7, the grey glass 14n7 tubes were smoother and more lush. The bass is warmer and looser, the whole presentation became more "tubey" I suppose. 

Next up was the Sylvania "Bad boys." These are the bottom getter, three hole tall 12sn7. Gotta say, these are really good. I had a NIB sleeve of these I bought 15 years ago or so. Everything tightened up and became more vivid. I get why people have been praising these. 

I am currently listening to the Tungsol round plate 12sn7. They are living up to the hype. Very well balanced, spacious, sweet, controlled. Man, why do these have to cost so much? The 6sn7 versions are quickly becoming extinct. The 12v version are merely very expensive as opposed to exorbitantly expensive.  I am going to continuing scouring tube sellers to see if I can get another set. 

Coming up I will try a variety of RCA, Sylvania, and more 14n7 tubes. I also have a large number of 6sn7 and 7n7 tubes, mostly Sylvania. I do have a pair of Ken Rad round plate 6f8g tubes I'm curious about. Just waiting for the adapters to arrive...

This is really cool. Pray tell, what "baseline" Supratek model did you have him start with, upon which to apply this customization?

Does it have a phono stage? LCR or "standard"?

Markus

Sorry, this is a Cabernet. Just a line preamp, no phono.