Supratek Owners Thread

@jslateiv thanks for the clarification. Bet the hammertone copper was incredible looking. I'm fine with powder coat black.

Thanks,

Doug A

The Chrome is plated over a copper chassis.   He used to offer a straight copper that was polished (pics on his website) but did away with it.  There is a ‘antique copper’ finish that is more a copper/hammertone type finish over a copper chassis. It looks really good.   The powder coat finishes are all on steel chassis.  Both will give some level of shielding as they are grounded but the copper gets the edge there.  I think you’d be hard to tell a diff. in SQ between the 2 honestly.   Get what looks best to you or works with your budget.  

@aldnorab 

If you own or plan on owning an amp whose input sensitivity is a good match for the current Sachs preamps 18db gain then it is a fine preamp.  If you like to swap amps around or don't know what you may be drawn to in the future then the Supratek's adjustable gain gives it the edge on that front plus the balance control.  To my ears though in both of my systems there is just something different about the Supratek sound that just draws me into the music differently.  Though their character may be slightly different it applies to both models I own.  The greater flexibility with the increasingly more expensive 6SN7 tubes is just a bonus.  

@jackd this gives me a good idea how the D. Sachs compares with the Supratek models. Your comparison Helps a lot. Buying a second Supratek also speaks highly of their sound quality.

@jslateiv  appreciate your explanation of the circuitry differences between the Chardonnay and Cabernet. I agree that hand built items are works of art and can be passed down thru the ages. 

I didn't realize the chrome and copper were different cosmetic choices. Thought it was chrome plated copper, possibly used as chassis shielding. I'm fine with black powder coat. 

Thanks everyone,

aldnorab 

@aldnorab 

I only had a chance to listen to the Cabernet for about 10 days in the SC system before I had to leave town so no where near broken in at less than 75 hours.  But based on that brief listen to it in the same system the Sachs was in and almost three years of the Chardonnay if nothing else changed the Cabernet would be closer in "sonic signature".  That as you know can be varied a bit with tubes but not but so much.  I could easily live with either one but my curiosity got the best of me. 

Btw,..  the difference between the 2 is pre circuit.  Chard. hey s a traditional resistor loaded circuit, 2stage, direct coupled.   Cab uses some CCS load,  direct coupled as well.  Both are parafeed output as all Suprateks are.   

Nah,.. you dont understand the PS, and how its built.  There is very little difference if any between the  chardonnay / cab PS.   The main PS feeds the tube regs which make it what it is and do the major cleaning/stabilization of the V feeding the circuit.  The main difference people see in the 2 models is between the regs either being on the pre or located on the PS.  It is purely cosmetic and he actually makes the cab a lot of times with the regs on the pre chassis.   The PS circuit for both is the same.  Adding in a boutique cap in the PS before the the regs is honestly a waste of money as well.  My opinion on (and his) on using fancy parts in areas that they wont make a difference.  I’ve been lucky to hear a ton of his amps in just as many configs including ‘tricked out’ PS’s etc,..  it aint worth it and the reliability drops. 

Agreed.

 I asked for an upgraded power supply....which I believe is the main difference between the Chardonnay and Cabernet.....

Another way of saying "please change my order to Cabernet"

LOL!

I think it’s fair to say that Mick considers those more tweaks than anything else. I also understand his reasoning behind not wanting to change the sound of his product. He knows and understands how his products sound. When you make things sound different he doesn’t know what the end result will be. And to be fair, you don’t either! Lol. Once you get a feel for the sound you can always tweak it later on  

When I talk about customizing I’m talking about functional differences as opposed to circuit or design changes. Appearance, tube voltages, outputs, inputs, etc.

 "When you order remember you can customize the preamp"

Yes and no lol....

last week I tried to upgrade the power supply on a Chardonnay order and Mick basically talked me out of it.

Between his saying the boutique caps, resistors and inductors can "feel good"

they really don't do that much to improve the sound, only "change it"....

also stressing the real magic in the design is in the "tube shunt regulator".

After this and more I gathered he may not have wanted to make the PS upgrade,

Im sure I could have insisted, but I decided to leave things alone.

When I asked about a copper Cabernet last year Mick said he wasn’t offering those anymore because the scratch too easily. 

When you order remember that you can customize the preamp. It’s one of the advantages of a made to order item. I opted for a 6v/12v switch and an extra set of balanced outputs. I see someone else had theirs made to accept 8sn7 tubes. Others have decided to use 6j5 tubes instead. 6sn7 tubes have gotten so expensive it might be worthwhile to explore other options. 

Thanks for the extra info @gryphongryph, ​​@jackd , and @jslateiv . I thought the copper might add shielding. High-end Japanese components often use copper lined chassis for this reason.

@jackd which Supratek do you find the D. Sachs closer to tonal balance wise?

Thanks,

Doug A

Perfect. Thanks.

Yes, exactly.  I unplugged everything and started as if it came from the box in case I missed something.  I was trying to eliminate any variables.

@firstgrowth can you please explain a little bit about what you mean by you "rewired everything"? It sounds like you had to rebuild the preamp. I'm guessing that what you meant was that you simply reconnected everything in your system and re-seated the tubes. And sorted out the switch. Is this correct?

@aldnorab 

As to the different finishes the only differences are the cost and the fact that in the current supply chain environment the copper/chrome finishes will result in what could be a much longer wait time.  I prefer the black chassis finish anyway so I have one with a black case and one with the Jarrah wood case. They don't sound any different.  The Supratek's will be my last preamp and all the others will eventually be for sale. Would love to hear Aric's take on the 6SN7 preamp but not going to buy one just for an audition. 

Jack summed it up nicely.  Smooth/classic vs. more dynamic/lively.   Its subtle but instantly noticeable and interestingly both still very much retain that ‘Supratek’ house sound.  Mostly likely due to the regulators.  A feature very few other builders incorporate.  Couple that with the ease of repairs due to P-P wiring and you have sonic pieces of art that can literally be handed down for decades to come and will sound as good if not better 50 years from now with only some very minor maintenance. 

@aldnorab 

I've owned a Chardonnay for going on three years, the latest Sachs for almost two years and a Cabernet 8SN7 for just a couple of months.  The Cabernet and Chardonnay at this time are in different house in different systems in different states so haven't had a chance to do a side by side comparison yet.  Going off of my experience with the Chardonnay versus the small time I've spent with the Cabernet my take on the differences between the two are that the Chardonnay is a smoother more comfortable classic tube sound while the Cabernet is a more lively sound more to the neutral side. I guess some people would say that equals more dynamic but it's just different.  They are different circuit designs and as the Cabernet gets more hours on it some of it's characteristics may change slightly but don't think it will ever be as "warm" sounding as the Chardonnay.  It will come down to what you are looking for and how you think it will fit with your current or future equipment.  One clear advantage I have found though with both Supratek's over the Sachs is with the tubes.  Tubes that are unacceptable to me in the Sachs in terms of noise play fine in the Supratek units.  Also the options of either balanced or SE outputs and adjustable gain are an important factor to me as I tend to swap amps around. 

When I asked Mick that question, he replied a little bit more of everything 😜

The chrome looks very nice especially in the evening when other lights in the room reflects of the 2 big domes, but I think there will be many that think it is too much bling, I did not get the domes until later and it took a while for me to get used to the new look! But they have grown on me, so now I kind of like the look.

If there is a sonic difference? I really can’t say, probably a question better suited for Mick to answer.

What are the sonic differences between a Chardonnay and Cabernet? Does the copper/chrome have any sonic advantage over the powder coat finish? Still thinking about getting one of these for a birthday present.

Thanks,

aldnorab

Would be interesting if you will hear any improvement with a new umbilical.

The EML 45's are great,  running a pair of the 45 Mesh on my Grange.  Wonderful tube!

It sounds amazing.  I'm ordering a set of EML 45s and a new umbilical.

Yes those little toggle switches!Glad you got it working.Now enjoy the 3D ,dynamics and vibrancy they bring.

🙄

@jtgofish 

I rewired everything and reseated the tubes just to see if there was something I did during setup that could have been incorrect.  It turned out that the switches that select 2.5v vs 5v on the DHT tubes were set incorrectly.  I'm running 300b and once I made the change it started working.  

Good news.  Enjoy!

Firstgrowth,What was the problem?

Success!  I started from scratch and with Johhny's help It's making music.  Thank you everyone for the input.  This has never happened to me before.

Sound is really good right out of the gate.  Piano music in particular has amazing depth.

Have you talked to Mick about this? What does he say?

Ok, swapped out the source and same result.  I may switch back to the Don Sachs preamp and see what happens.

@gryphongryph 

I did.  I'm going to take them all out and re seat them as well just to be sure.

Yes. Trying different sources. CD player. DAC. phono. Cassette. All of them. Get a cassette playing, a CD playing, stream something through your DAC. All at the same time. Keep the volume at 9 o'clock while you switch between the sources. Read the owners manual. Tweak the gain control. Try the switches. I concur it's *probably* something simple. 

Please keep us informed. We're all on your side.

Good luck,   Let us know how you make out.  

Have you checked the tubes ?

There's something going on.  I got it to sound a little better and then it reverted back to a thin/faint sound.  I'm going to try a different source tomorrow and eliminate one possible issue.  It's gotta be something simple and I'm optimistic I'll get this working.  Can't wait to hear it.  

"Sounds like the input switch was in the wrong position of faint sound was coming through."

This is exactly what I was thinking. 

Note: be patient as you test the various input pairs and the selector switch. It can be a little confusing - at least it was for me. For instance, viewed from the front, my LCR phono stage is at the 10 o'clock setting, even though the input is the furthest one to the left (looking from the back). And so on.

Sounds like the input switch was in the wrong position of faint sound was coming through.

How did you make out?

PM sent..

@jslateiv 

Enormously helpful.  I flipped the gain switch the opposite way as well as the mute. There's some sound but I'm not there yet.  At least I know the cabling is correct.  

The sound is faint and thin.  I tried the 45/300b switches and no change.  I don't have my multimeter at this house so I'm flying a little blind.  Is there a chance I installed the output tubes incorrectly?  I can shut it down and reseat them.

Make sure the center/rear toggle in front of the gain knob is positioned towards the front of the pre (or make sure the knob is fully clockwise),..  Other posibility is that the V switch for the DHT is incorrect.   If you are in fact using a 300B (NOT 45),  try the switch in the other position,..  no harm as the 45 only gets 2.5v (not 5v)..    this can also be (very) carefully measured with a dmm by lifting on the DHT out of the socket just enough to probe both of the 'large' pins.  DMM set to DCV.   Should see 5v. make sure the probes DO NOT touch other pins or chassis.    Also make sure your input selector is correct.  if using the first rca /input   selector should be in the 2nd position.

Ok.  Idiot alert.  I received my pre amp yesterday.  It's a spectacular looking piece.  I followed Mick's instructions and I'm getting zero sound.  Has anyone run into an issue and found a solution?  I have the switches set for 300b and SE input.  Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for input, I ordered a pair of Genalex - Gold Lion PX-300B

Looking forward to try them out.

Get a pair of EML 300b’s and be done with it.   Superbly built,  very rugged, sound amazing, have a 5 yr warrenty and are on par with Elrog and WE at a better price.   

TJ Fullmusic 300B/n meshplates are excellent.Beautiful airy treble,lots of image depth and a lovely midrange.Not cheap any more though!

Here's a review of 300b you might find useful.

Hi guys, one of my Electro Harmonix 300B tubes stopped working on my Cabernet 

and I was wondering getting some other brand,

as I was not so impressed with the Electro Harmonix,

they did not have enough detail for me.

What tubes would you guys recommend?

Thanks.

I didn't have any "upgrades" done to my Cabernet but I did have a few mods. I have two balanced sets of outputs. The bigger one is that I can run either 6sn7 or 12sn7 in my amp. That cost me $500 but considering what the better 6sn7 tubes cost and how much less the identical 12sn7 I think I made the right decision. 

Others have decided to use a pair of 6j5 per side instead of 6sn7. That would also be an effective way of getting great tubes at a much lower cost. I prefer getting the 6sn7 sockets though. I can use a 6sn7 to 2x6j5 adapter if I wanted to. 

Skypop 

Thanks, we appreciate your thoughts and well wishes.