suggestions for turntable set up around $6,000.

I believe the Schroder arms and Eurolab tables are both fine products.I would have preferred to buy them from someone who would directly deal with any problem that might occur.Instead of dealing with the problem,he was more interested in making sure that he wasn't blamed and didn't have to spend "his" money to correct it.Either you are part of the problem,or part of the solution.

I do not know any of the principals mentioned, but I do know that the Schroders are GREAT arms and worth a listen for possible inclusion in any discriminating system.

I have to weigh on this discussion first off Hart at Audio Advancements is a standup guy I have done business with him for years and I never had problems like the one's your describing also the man is one of the most respected men in High End audio I really feel you should recant your comments because it is hard to believe what your accusing him of!!!

Tom, My problem was with the Schroder arm.I believe something had gone amiss in shipping.I believe it was poorly packed and with my poor vision,I assumed it might be my fault.It was proven otherwise.Hart didn't want to be involved with setting things straight.I have, since that time,been in contact with Frank Schroder.He was kind enough to set things straight and has provided me with his contact information.I love the Eurolab Premier and I am glad there is another source for the table in the USA.I will contact you by phone on 7-22-03.There are others who prefer not to deal with Audio Advancements and his horse manure .

Would you be able to answer my e-mail and let me know what kind of trouble you are having with your Morche/Eurolab combo?I saw your recomendation retraction on Audiogon.I would like to solve your problems.I would also try to correct the negative publicity.Please call me at 201-768-6986.Regards, Tom Hills- Hudson Audio Technologies.

I would like to withdraw my recommendation for the Audio Advancements products.I ran into some problems with the products and Hart has been unresponsive and downright rude during phone conversations,not to mention ignoring e-mails.Nobody deserves to be treated this way after spending their money.I believe the way a company treats a customer after purchase, and should problems occur,speak volumes.TWO THUMBS DOWN.

I have a Redpoint Testa Rosa with the drilled aluminum/teflon platter and battery powered tape drive. A few months ago I moved up from a VPIHW19MKIV. I am using the same arm, Kuzma Stogi Reference, and the Shelter 901 cartridge. I have never done a comparison with a Teres. The background noise on this TT is totally silent. I really didn't think the background could get this quiet. The difference was so great that it makes standard pressings in comparison to before sound like audiophile pressings. All the audiophile things you look for improved, deeper tighter bass, extended highs, natural bloom etc. I lived with the table for a month with their basic PVC platter. This platter was good and much improved over the VPI setup but the aluminum/teflon platter really took this table to a whole different performance level. I am not sure the the setup parameters from the SF show but I do know that this table can sound amazing when set up properly and matched to the right equipment. Other parts of my system are the, Vibraplane isolation table, Hagerman Trumpet phono, Lamm LL2 line stage, Sonic Frontiers Power 3SE mono's, and Vienna Acoustic mahler speakers.

It is true that Thom and Peter have split into two companies. It is my understanding that the technology would be shared but that Peter would be making the Testa Rosa's(Redpoint) and Thom the Quatro's (Galibier Design). I did not know Peter but Thom is a great guy to work with and very knowledgeable.

Redpoint must have "split" in some poorly conceived way, in my opinion. When I heard the Redpoints at the recent HE show in SF, I was particularly unimpressed, especially when in the context of a comparison to some of the Teres models.

It was, however, only second time I had heard to Redpoints an I suppose it should have been a setup problem. Anyone with ACTUAL listening experience that can comment further?

This may be old news to some of you - I was looking for info on Redpoint to compare with Teres, and found that Redpoint has split, from what I can tell, they are both continuing to develop the same technology... Thom Mackris has created:
http://www.galibierdesign.com/about.html

michell ORBE SE + origin live silver taper + otofon Rohman cart.

I have this combo and I would strongly suggest it to anyone because this is vinyl lovers dream turntable/arm/cartridge. I had a Linn LP12/Valhalla/Cirkus/Expressimo RB-250/Glider II and the Teres 255 Lacquered Rosewood/ET2/Shelter just killed it. The Teres 255 is a beautiful table and breeze to setup. You would have to spend alot more to have anything better.

Steve...

You may also want to check out a Redpoint table. They are very well made and have several platter options. Their turntables run around $3-$4M without arm depending on platter and model. This as the Teres competes with tables costing much more.

Eralf 6k is right in the ballpark for a decent rig, most definetly look into a used VPI TNT the mkV is a upgrade from what I have. I have a TNT JR / SME 309 / Benz Ruby H , this combo is really a great setup, once you set the VPI up FORGET ABOUT IT . And with VPI I know say 10 or 15 years from now I will still be able to get parts if needed.Can you say that about some of the other smaller companies. I don`t disagree that some of these smaller companies make a great product, what I am saying is VPI makes a product that has a excellent reputation. Just my 2 cents,I know if I was spending 6K I would buy what I liked after reveiwing all the posts. Also consider a phono stage to mate with the cartridge you end up with. David

Eralf, reread my last post, as for the tonearm question.
The Origin Live Illustrious tone arm is a new design. Also a bargen at the price because of its design it will work beautifully with the shelter cartridges. Not all arms are as well suited to work with the 901,I would say probably none would be better. If you decide to change cartridges sometime in the future this arm will work GREAT with any pickup.
most guys reading this thread would love to be in your shoes and have the 6K to get this setup. As I stated in my first post you will not belive the information this rig well dig out of those old groves. The music will be a revelation. I hope you have a lot of lp's because once you hear how good this Monster is you will not be able to stop playing lp's

First, the 265 all-wood model is sold out because it was a limited production. There is another production run coming out soon. I recommended the 255 because of the price thing too. It leaves enough money left in your budget to afford a really good arm and cartridge.

If you can afford the 265 and get the tonearm and cartridge too, that would be great, but it would put you over your stated budget by a thousand bucks.

If you want to see the coolest of the cool, check out this link to the new Teres model that is not yet released. It will be around $6k, without arm or cartridge. Chris at Teres claims that this is a quantum leap ahead of all previous Teres models, so it should be a real stunner. It has a 4" thick Cocobolo platter with lead-shot loading, and the entire TT weighs in at about 130 pounds.

http://www.teresaudio.com/300-med.jpg

Pretty cool, huh?

I didn't read past the B rated tables, didn't think to look at the interesting tables. I am curious if you have any opinions of the tone arms he recommends. The A rated linear arms really blow the budget, unless I wanted to just look at a tone arm. Also all Audiogoners recommended the 255 vs the 265, is this just a price issue or is it hard to comprehend a completely wooden table, it is rather shocking at first. But the company's web site raves about the wood.

Eralff, the Teres 255 is mentioned on Arthur Salvatore's website. It is at the bottom under "other interesting turntables", because he has not yet auditioned it.

He states(from the website),

"TERES- This company sells 5 turntables direct to the public, and they can also be purchased as kits for further (modest) savings. So far, every owner's correspondence that I've seen has been very positive. Comparisons to commercially available turntables have almost always been in the Teres' favor, even when there was a large price differential against them.

If these writers are accurate, and some of them have had considerable experience with turntables, then the Teres line is simply a "steal" and the typical (and well-known) turntable manufacturers from the past are in potential trouble (just like most North American tube amplifier manufacturers).

None of us has heard any of the Teres models. One associate is seriously considering purchasing their (former) top of the line (Model 255-$ 2,600/$ 2,300 Kit). Their new "top of the line" is the Model 265. It has "a lead loaded platter constructed from solid hardwood". I have never seen anything like it. The retail price is $ 3,700. There is no mention of a kit.

My current advice is that I would seriously look at this line before making a new turntable purchase. In fact, with the highly positive, anecdotal evidence continually accumulating, it will not be long before I can properly and safely use the word "overwhelming" to describe it. This means I can then, consistent with the posted "Recommendation Policy", recommend it without any of us actually hearing it ourselves."

End of quote.

How's that for you?

I do respect the opinion of Arthur Salvatore, this is why I was alittle disapointed that the teres 255 was not mentioned.

Eurolab with Morch arm or used Graham 2.2=roughly +/- $4500.Add a Nottingham MM at $1250 or upgrade to Rose Petal/used Clearaudio Insider.{Can help on pricing-last two=$2200}.Happy hunting.

Twl and Rockinroni nailed it.

In your budget range, you must audition the VPI TNT Mk V, probably with a VPI JMW 10.5 or 12.5 arm. It is a superb turntable/tonearm combo that competes very well against models costing twice as much.

It seems you want a more detailed answer ok
The items Twl and I suggested will be the best value in analog and blow any cd, sacd, whatever digital, at any price no Competition. You will not find any used Teres tables. If you buy one you will keep it for life, as is everyone else that gets one.
This is from their site;
"Currently the 265 is sold out. More model 265 turntables are being produced for delivery in July. Due to high demand it is likely that the July production run of will sell out before delivery. Deposits are being accepted to reserve turntables. The model 265 is only available in Cocobolo."

This is for a, Price: $3700 Turntable WHY? because they will kick the crap out of anything in its price range.

THE 255 is a super bargen at is asking price.
I suggest you buy a new Turntable,A Turntable is something tricky to buy used,as is a cartridge.

about the Shelter
did you look at this;
some light reading
http://www.high-endaudio.com/rec.html#List

If you have 6k to spend on a Analog rig ,its a no brainier
ask TWL. Do some looking around this site and you will find out.

Good luck, The components TWL and I suggested, IS how to do it right the first time.
I know you will be happy whatever you decide to buy.
Analog rules
Ron

I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO FIND A USED TABLE AT A FAIR PRICE. THE 255 LOOKS GREAT SO DOES THE VPI TNT. THERE DOESN'T SEEM TO BE ANY FOR SALE ON AG EXCEPT NEW, I ALSO WANTED TO KNOW IF TH SHELTER 901 IS A GREAT CARTRIAGE TO REALLY PICK UP ALL DETAIL ON A ALBUM THAT MY CD PLAYER IS MISSING. MY MAIN LISTENING IS JAZZ.

I also suggest the Teres 255, and a OL Illustrious tonearm and a Shelter 501 or 901.

For reasons that have often been discussed on this forum in the past, I still don't think that a VPI tonearm is a good match for the Shelter cartridges. Others may argue, but I'm sticking to my guns on this one.

Check out the latest Absolute Sound for a review on the Well Tempered Labs Reference table. This is a great table that competes with much more expensive ones. It's a little tricky to set up but once that's done it's very easy to fine tune the table.

I'd go for:

Teres 255

Tri-Planar arm

Shelter, or Benz cartridge

This is what I would buy if I had the $ to burn... right now I dont' so I got something that is damn good for about half your budget... Wilson Benesch Circle table with 0.5 arm and Ply cartridge. Nicely made, easy to set up, and sounds good to me. Maybe someday I will step up to the above rig, but hard to imagine that there is much to be gained, probably on the order of 10-20% improvement over what I have now...

next step is upgraded phono stage... probably BAT VK-P10 for now, (using BAT vk-P3 right now) until the DHT-based tranny-coupled one is finished.

have fun
-Ed

SME 20 from Juki or VPI TNT locally

Trese model 255 http://www.teresaudio.com/t-255.html

Origin Live Illustrious
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?anlgtnrm&1060372521

Shelter 901

some light reading
http://www.high-endaudio.com/rec.html#List

Good luck,
With these components you will not belive how good it will sound. I don't know what your buddy had, but I will bet this will blow him away.