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Subwoofer Advice For Stereo Music System, Not HT

I recently purchased new the following:

Jolida JD302BRC Tube Integrated Amp
Jolida JD100 Tube CDP
APC H-10 Power Conditioner
Wireworld Cables and Interconnects

all added to my current Klipsch KG5.5 floorstanding speakers.

I absolutely love the mids and highs produced by this system, but the lowest frequencies, while nicely detailed, are just not quite balanced with the mids and highs. I have had the system for a month now, and have at least 40 or 50 hours on the system. I have tried numerous speaker placement options, and currently have the speakers placed almost against the back wall. This gives the best bass, but still not quite what I seek. I have decided I may have to add an active subwoofer. I can't help but believe that the proper sub would be the final piece to make this system really shine for my small 13x14 listening room. The system is used only for music, no home theater.

Given the above, what do you think I should I look for in a sub? I am currently looking at the Velodyne MiniVee or the Velodyne SPL-800R. I would think these models should give me the added bass while keeping distortion and boominess to a minimum. They are also sealed instead of ported, which I have read is better for stereo music. Am I on the right track here, or are there other models/brands I should consider? My budget is $1k or less.

Also, the Jolida int amp has two sets of pre-outs. One fixed and one variable. Which would be more beneficial to use for the sub, or should I just hook the sub to the speaker binding posts?

Thanks.
chap_cat
24 responses Add your response
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oddiofyl's avatar
oddiofyl
3,825 posts
 
Check out the REL T1 and R205, I have a R305 and like it a lot. While it doesn't have the output or go quite as low as my Velodyne HGS 10 it sounds much better with music and virtually disappears in my system. I almost bought a R205 but got such a good deal on the 305 I couldn't pass it up.
tgrisham
1,291 posts
 
Thanks, Bob! It's always a pleasure learning from you!
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oem
91 posts
 
Sub woofers are not as easy to integrate into a system as some of the posts would have you believe.Of course these subs have become easier to work with over the years but they are still not ideal.The more expensive subs offer more integrating options.The lower priced subs can and usually will degrade
the lower mids.You may receive enhanced bass but at a musical cost.
Good luck
stringreen's avatar
stringreen
6,468 posts
 
...just for the heck of it, try the system without the power conditioner - not for additional low end, but for clarity. You can always put it back in the system if you find that it does help. I never met a power conditioner that didn't screw up something in my system...and I tried many of them.
tgrisham
1,291 posts
 
Bob, Amazing test results for $600. My tiny REL is great for a small room. The bass is tight and crisp and goes to 30Hz. But I like the ported subs like my Hsu Research VTF for large rooms simply because of cost/performance ratios.
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halcro's avatar
halcro
2,664 posts
 
I second what Pacific_island and Samhar have said.
The Vandersteen 2wq Subs are sealed boxes (not ported) and so the bass is real and tight (not bloated and full like the ported designs).
Having 2 of them as a stereo pair not only will give you the bass you want, but will help fix any room resonant problems as it will 'pressurise' the acoustic space if positioned in 2 opposing corners. They also will help eliminate intermodulation distortion in your main speakers' woofers.
I had the REL Stadium II for 10 years and the Vandersteens are in a different league.
timrhu
2,779 posts
 
I owned the Velodyne SPL-800II and enjoyed it. The sub was easy to integrate with my system which is a plus. But for deeper, cleaner bass I purchased a James EMB-1000. Another sub which is easy to integrate. This thing can rattle the windows with no strain. It's a sealed unit also.
I haven't read all of the answers but IMO use the variable preamp outs instead of speaker outputs.
face
516 posts
 
The Velo SPL series subs sound fantastic, very musical.
chap_cat OP
28 posts
 
Folks, thanks for all of your advice, and don't hesitate to keep it coming. It is much appreciated and considered.
joelv's avatar
joelv
103 posts
 
My favorite sub (I've only owned two) is The Anthony Gallo MPS. It's the two-piece cylindrical one, not the sphere and not the cheaper "cannon."

All their promotional material mentioned the "texture" of deep bass, and I have to agree that it has an exceptionally textured and rich presentation. 240W amp, 11" diameter, HUGE bass, but refined, highly detailed, fast, and not boomy in the least. I even used it in rooms that were supposedly too big and never really ran out of steam.

They may be out of production, but you can get a used one for less than $500.00.
kjweisner's avatar
kjweisner
293 posts
 
I line up behind Samhar on the Vandy 2Wq. Have been using mine with Magneplanar 1.6QRs in a two channel only system for the last nine years and am completely happy with every aspect of it's performance. Make sure you understand what you're getting into with the 2Wq as it uses a somewhat unconventional but extremely effective hookup method.
veroman's avatar
veroman
299 posts
 
you have the right idea re sub addition. fwiw, i use the same spkr outs to run to my MK powered sub which has all the controls built into it. i run a thinner gauge wire from the binding posts from a different position on the 5 way posts to the sub. exlnt results. i have the jolida 502b and yes these 'smaller' tube amps do benefit from some s.s. muscle in the deep bass. the current sent to the sub is miniscule and heavy spkr cable hardly seems justified in this sense. jmo
samhar
1,048 posts
 
Used about $750 + shipping!
samhar
1,048 posts
 
What about Vandersteen 2Wq a very "musical" sub that lets you set the hi-pass filter value to blend with your speakers and also has db matching to your speakers and adjustable" Q" from tight (jazz) to bomb explosion, it's best at the jazz end though. The signal is coming from your amp so it takes on the Jolida's characteristics.
onemug
784 posts
 
I like the Velodyne for music. If the REL is in your budget, they are nice too.

DO NOT hook your sub up with the fixed pre-outs of the Jolida. You need to vary the output to the sub so its output goes up and down with the main speakers. Do what Garry said in his last paragraph. Good advice.
pacific_island_audio
49 posts
 
Definitely go with a sealed sub—better damping and hopefully a lower Q. Don't overlook kits. Sealed sub kits are available for well under $1k, very easy to assemble, and will give you higher performance for your dollar.

Powered subs have line level inputs. But to get the integration between the sub and mains correct you need to have the crossover set correctly. If your preamp has a subwoofer crossover and sub-out you can do it from there, but unless you're using an AV pre this probably isn't the case. So, you'll need to use the crossover in the sub (or a separate external x/o). Pre-out goes to the sub, crossover sends the mid/hi to the amp from the sub's high out. Crossover frequency should be set at about one octave above the -3 dB point of the mains. You need to have that much overlap for a linear response.

Be very careful in your selection of a sub. Too many are pseudo-subs that are barely flat to 30 Hz. To be useful, a sub needs to do 25 Hz (-3dB or better). This point can be debated, but the low A on a piano goes down to 27.5 Hz, the low C is 32.7 Hz, so flat to 30 seems reasonable.

Adding a sub will give other benefits besides low end extension. It takes a lot of stress off your mains (and amps) helping to reduce distortion and improve the lower midrange.
garryh
94 posts
 
Chap,

Yes, I believe you're on the right track. Third the REL R-series, they've worked great for me.

That said, the SPL 800R would be a nice pick as well; I've got their bigger brother, the SPL 1000R (x2), in my living room HT/2 channel system and am very pleased - fine for HT and Music. The room correction feature, remote, and music genre setting capabilities really give one a lot of versatility.

Re: using pre-outs or speaker tap, try both and see which one works best to your ears. For me, utilising the speaker level taps sounds slightly better.

Cheers,
Garry
tgrisham
1,291 posts
 
I second the REL. Mine has speaker level inputs. This way you can set the main speakers up for the best mid-range, and then set up the sub for the lower frequencies. It should just disappear.
lapierre
547 posts
 
Check out the REL R-205...

http://www.sumikoaudio.net/rel/prod_r205.htm
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