I have already seen some good advice, if you are looking are at an MC cartridge I would suggest a Soundsmith Phono stage, the best bang for your buck which allows you to dial in any loading for your cartridge. When you get down to table selection you need to look at tonearm comparability along with whatever cartridge you plan to use. As I saw in another comment it is important that you get a system that works together as well as keeping within your budget. If you post everything you are planning to do including the room you will use as your listening I am sure you will get lots of good feedback, the more information the better.
Substantial Upgrade
Longtime lurker, first-time poster: My wife and I got into vinyl about five years ago and have been steadily collecting records ever since. We love spinning records, and listen to a lot of jazz, pop, and classical music. We started modestly with an AT LP120, and are lucky to have a friend who just happened to have a pair of Totem Rainmakers sitting in his garage collecting dust, which he gave to us, along with a TSC sub and all cables. We have decided it is time to invest in our own system.
I've done a lot of research and read numerous threads on this topic here and elsewhere, and we've narrowed our choices down to two tables: the Rega P6 (in the $1500 price range) or the Feickert Volare (in the $3500 bracket). Either table I'll be getting the Hana ML. For phonostage, we've narrowed down to the MoFi UltraPhono or the Sutherland KC Vibe mk ii. I'm hoping I can solicit opinions here on these choices and, in particular, whether the Feickert is going to make a difference for our use case. Finally, I recognize that the speakers might be outclassed by these upgrades, but we are separately planning to move in the next year and I want to wait and see where our new listening room is going to be before investing in new speakers.
Thanks in advance.
I've done a lot of research and read numerous threads on this topic here and elsewhere, and we've narrowed our choices down to two tables: the Rega P6 (in the $1500 price range) or the Feickert Volare (in the $3500 bracket). Either table I'll be getting the Hana ML. For phonostage, we've narrowed down to the MoFi UltraPhono or the Sutherland KC Vibe mk ii. I'm hoping I can solicit opinions here on these choices and, in particular, whether the Feickert is going to make a difference for our use case. Finally, I recognize that the speakers might be outclassed by these upgrades, but we are separately planning to move in the next year and I want to wait and see where our new listening room is going to be before investing in new speakers.
Thanks in advance.
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bruinuclafan I’m really happy and proud of that TT, it was bit by bit with lots of help here. Sneaking the compact arm on the left side was the icing on the cake. I started out asking here about using a long tonearm. The vintage JVC Victor arm came up. That got me into the vintage JVC Victor Plinth and TT81, Direct Drive, quartz locked. I eventually took a chance on a 12.5" arm, from Russia, that’s on the right side. Next, a very cool and unique vintage 9" arm with removable headshell in the back. The left side is a compact arm chosen to fit within the dust cover when on, for a Mono cartridge. .................... My AT120 is downstairs, waiting to give to a friend, but I’m not going there till after covid. My AT120 never made any noise even when close. ........................................................ I like vintage, and I like wood, so I was drawn to the TT’s made by Pioneer, Denon, and my choice JVC Victor. Those TT’s are from the end of the LP era, the peak of very skilled engineer’s with big budgets competing with each other. ....... WOOD. Be careful with vintage wood, know what you are looking at/buying. There is hardwood, wood veneer, and wraps of artificial wood plastic coated paper, some look darn good, some well taken care of, some delaminating, chipped, PLINTHS. Denon and JVC Victor made 7 layer decks, I think Pioneer did not go that far. Sony made a unique metal sandwich, never saw one, but it is interesting. |
Elliot makes a lot of sense. I think the Feikert, OL combination costs more than it is worth. I would consider the Rega P8 and use a Moving Magnet Cartridge such as the AT Elliot mentioned or the Goldring 1042. If you want to spend more the the Clearaudio Maestro V2 is an excellent cartridge which will run with $2-3000 MC cartridges. If you really want a jump up in turntables then put your OL arm on a Sota Sapphire. This turntable has a completely isolated sub chassis. Nothing in the environment bothers it. Jump up and down, hit it with a hammer (not kidding), call up a worm, whatever. This turntable runs with $30,000 turntables like the SME 30/2. If you decide you would like one https://sotaturntables.com/product-category/heritage-series/ Call Donna and put your order in now. They are buried and new orders are 4 months out. I know because I just put my name in for a Cosmos Vacuum. 4 darn months, misery for an instant gratification guy. The Sapphire is easily a destination turntable. You will most likely never feel the need to buy another. Don't forget to order the dust cover with it! |
Dear @bruinuclafan : I think that a better option for the TT is this one today design: https://www.technics.com/us/products/grand-class/direct-drive-turntable-system-sl-1200g.html https://hifiheaven.net/shop/Technics-SL-1200GR-Grand-Class-Direct-Drive-Turntable-System It’s really hard to beat and will performs very good with any cartridge of your choice ( including the Hanna. ) due that comes with a very good removable headshell tonearm ( builded by magnesium, same material as the SME V. ) design. So you always can mate it with the needs that cartridge weigth/compliance ask for just changing the headshell weigth when need it and the removable headshell designs gives you several alternatives of headshell builded materials ( magnesium, aluminum, wood, blended materials. ) that makes that with the same cartridge you can " flavored " the cartridge performance as you like the more as more neutral and better balance. You can improve too the headshell wires for better quality and this " move " you can hear it as a better quality sounds. Latter on you can do the same with the Technics internal wiring changing it for a top one. I think that you can’t go wrong in any way with this first class Technics TT/tonearm. In the other side: " I recognize that the speakers might be outclassed by these upgrades." I’m not to sure could be that way, those " humble " speakers are better that what you could think and you will attest this when the Totem’s tells you every single improvement coming from your up-date new units in your room/system. As you said next year you can stay with the Totem’s adding a pair of self powered subwoofers and you will be surprised of the outstanding quality sounds that today can’t even imagine how achieve it. Along those subs you need to think of your room treatment that always is a necessity due that the room overall response is one of the main links in your system chain and in any system chain. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
elliottbnewcombjr, what an awesome post! |
@mijostyn - I was looking at the OL MK3A tonearm if I went with the Feickert. @jjss49 - I'm leaning heavily toward the Rega if I go this route. I will take a look at the black cube. Thanks for the suggestion! Are there other plug and play competitors to the Rega P6 you would suggest I look at? Elliot - Thanks very much for the detailed response. I've seen those reviews on the Feickert and they are certainly concerning. For those reasons and the price differential I am leaning toward the Rega. As far as sticking with the LP120, one reason I want to upgrade i that the 120 is loud. I often listen at low volume and the motor sometimes overpowers the music. Since you prefer direct drive, are there any you would recommend? @Glupson - Thank you. @ millercarbon - I'm in the U.S. I'm not looking to avoid import duties as I am likely getting an import. The point I was trying to make is that using budget as a guide seems highly flawed given the many and variable inputs that comprise a given table's market price. |
op my 2 cents i would choose the rega and save the $, pass on the feickert with your sprout and totems the rega will be just fine and the extra $ on the feikert has dubious benefit... rega’s are plug and play, sound great... just set up the cart once properly and no more worries re phono stages, those you have identifed are fine but i would suggest a lehmann audio black cube, stunningly neutral quiet dynamic sound at a very modest price |
I used AT120 Direct Drive happily for many years (see comments below). I am going to suggest you upgrade it’s cartridge first, allowing you to take your time, research more, consider other TT’s now, you will use your new TT for several years, then likely move up. You are considering two Belt Drives, I prefer Direct Drive (quartz locked) , but many love/buy belt or idler wheel drives. My earlier TD124 was idler drive, it was wonderful, however I had to wait for several minutes for speed stability, then make small adjustments during listening sessions. Perhaps modern ones have less/no problems unlike the old Thorens. Of the two, I would go with the Rega, as neither are likely to be your ’final’ TT, and I don’t see any true advantages of the Feickert. The Feickert has two negatives noted in this review https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/dr-feickert-analogue-volare-record-player 1. Adjusting arm height (VTA) is done underneath the deck, a true PITA. I would never go for that, you are likely to try different cartridges in the future, requiring arm height adjustment for proper VTA. 2. The bearing, like the Thorens TD 124 I had, is susceptible to vertical vibration. My house has springy wood floors, the Thorens, wonderful, was a problem. The AT120 has no problem dealing with vertical vibrations. If your floors are solid, less of a problem, but, tap the plinth .... I would ask about that specifically of the REGA. from the link above: "Does Volare have any weaknesses? In its price segment, few. Top-tier ’tables, however, are more stable in imaging; their silences are darker, their dynamic and tonal contrasts wider and better resolved. Critically, they are also much more resistant to acoustic or mechanical feedback. This was an area that was a disappointment. During playback it only took a tap on the Volare plinth or my old Polycrystal platform to elicit an ugly thump through the system. A good isolation base along the lines of my reference Critical Mass Sotto Voce turned out to be the solution." ........................... AT120. Are you using it’s provided cartridge? If so, if you first change the cartridge on it, an easily discerned improvement, you will be very pleased, and you can move that cartridge to your new TT when you get it. To use AT120’s preamp now, you need a MM cartridge, I think this one an excellent choice https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/cartridges/type/moving-magnet/vm740ml An MC might/probably will beat it, but slightly, not much. I agree with you, AT120’s built in Phono preamp is better than most might think. I had McIntosh SS Preamp C28. I preferred the AT120 phono to the C28’s. When I changed to my current McIntosh mx110z Tube preamp, I much prefer the McIntosh phono. So much so, that when I chose a MC cartridge, I chose to use a SUT (step up transformer), to continue to use the McIntosh’s phono. ............................. Cartridge/Phono Stage: I think a careful selection of cartridge and phono stage is more important than a ’better’ TT within the affordable realm. Therefore, don’t rush into the Hana ML. You may eventually choose it, but consider phono stage and cartridge together. I recommend a phono stage with optional settings to accommodate your next cartridge as well as what you choose now. MC. It’s a whole different world than MM, which is why I suggest the excellent MM I suggested above to move up, then upgrade TT, then consider MC and external phono stage. ............................. Buying the Rega, or something in it’s price range will leave you more money to spend on cartridge, phono stage (especially phono stage with options). good luck happy listening .................................. BTW, changable headshell can be a real asset for a single arm TT. You could use: 1. current elliptical for certain LP grooves; fun but ’not great engineering/sound’ (avoiding wear on your more expensive MC cartridge with fixed Stylus) 2. new MM for AT120 now and use on new TT/Phono Stage later 3. new MC when you choose new Phono Stage 4. MONO cartridge for Mono LP’s, the Mono cartridges do not reproduce vertical movement, the sound is better or far better than Stereo Cartridge used in Mono Mode. I’m old, turned 70, decided to upgrade system, and TT, with a lot of help here. I ended up with a TT with 3 arms, and a SUT with 3 inputs, and the SUT has pass for MM, and 4 optional loads for MC, vintage Fidelity Research FRT-4. btw, none of it’s optional loading is best for the Hana ML. see TT in last photo of this LP listing https://www.ebay.com/itm/133613364198 Elliott |
Forgot to add, the Totems are driven by a PS Audio Sprout100. I don't have a separate preamp because there is one built into the LP120. Those tables and phono stages were recommended to me by my local dealer based on my budget and listening style and preferences. Especially on the phonostage, I wanted a good SS, since I have never dabled in tubes and want to start at this time. In particular the P6 is compelling because it seems to have the reputation for plug-and-play. I'm leaning toward the P6 just because I'm not sure the extra money is worth it for the Feickert, but I wanted to consider my options if I wanted to spend more. In general, I dislike thinking of these things in terms of budget. It's hard to compare $1500 turntables when price is determined by so many variables, including import taxes. So I was looking for tables that represented a good "value" in various price brackets and these two stuck out to me. |
