I tried the B&K reference 20 and the 200.2 amp WITH MY GRAND PIANO SPEAKERS. SOURCE IS APPLE TV.
I am sooooooooo happy. IT is great. Not very detailed but musical and non fatiguing at all, I listened for hours. The mids are outstanding. the highs are good, the bottom emd is ok too. Remember the source is my apple tv with most of the CD ripped at 192 , very few are lossless format which is equivillant to the CD quality. I am sooooooo happy. thanks to all of you.
THIS IS MY FIRST EXPERIENCE WITH SYSTEM SYNERGY THEY TALK ABOUT, IT APPEARS THAT THE GRAND PIANO HOME AND THE B&K WERE MADE FOR EACH OTHER , THE SPEAKER ACCEPTS AND HANDLES ALL WHAT THE AMPLIFIER DELIVERS AND THE AMPLIFIERS GIVE THE SPEAKER WHAT THEY WANT and what they can handle. the bass notes though not ver clear, espescially the deep bass, were very controlled , never boomy or extended, they started and ended when they should. It is not like my eggleston andra I, but that is a different story.
I ADDED MY TRIPHAZERS, LINE LEVEL X-500, AND SPEAKER X-80. THEY WILL TAKE A WHILE TO BREAK IN, BUT THEY ADDED MORE REALISM TO THE MUSIC , THE DEPTH INCREASED SIGNIFIACNTLY AND SOME SOUNDS LIKE SYMBALS AND HUMAN VOICE ARE ABOUT 90%CLOSE TO REAL.
THANKS AGAIN |
Ok. This what I will do
-I will seperate convinience and quality. I will keep my old system as is for the bathroom speaker and in ceiling speaker for casual lsitening.
-I am getting B&K reference 20 preamp and reference 200.2 amplifier for the sonus faber.
-I will get a new salamder cabinet to fir both.
NOW, WHAT SPEAKER CABLE AND POWER CABLE IS GOOD FOR THIS SET UP? |
Spend another 400.00 and pickup a slightly used Krell 400xi for 1700.00 with remaining warranty. 200wpc. works very well. I have the sonus grand piano home as well. I originally had a denon avr-3805 gun metal gray "made in Japan". I saw a nice review of Denon and Sonus sounding well together. You can pickup a used avr 3806 for 1000.00 Denon was very good for bass. Krell was more discrete and detailed etc. more watts too. Harman Kardon fell off the map in 1990s. In late 80s I had their gear and they were hi-end. |
I have a similar setup in my bedroom - SF Home Concerto in the bedroom and inwalls in the bathroom. I went a somewhat unusual route that you might want to consider, although it is takes a little effort to set up. I use a low end integrated as the conrol center and to drive the bathroom and a separate higher end tube integrated to drive the main speakers. I use a Yamaha for the control integrated/receiver but there are lot of options for < $200 used (although you may have to look to find out with a sleep function). I then use a hybrid tube integrated (Pathos Classic One mkiii) for the Concerto. The Pathos is driven by the Tape Output jacks on the Yamaha. The tubes are only in the pre-amp section, so will last at long time. The Pathos Classic One mk iii may be too expensive, but the mk ii can be found used in your price range.
I use a simple Radio Shack universal remote to control the Yamaha and the Pathos.
The Pathos does not have a 12 volt trigger, but I use a Russound ACT-1 to provide power to it. It is a 120 volt outlet that is turned on and off by a 12 volt trigger. I use the line out of the Yamaha with a 120 v wall wart that provides the appropriate 12 volt trigger output. Then, I just turn the receiver on and off to turn both units on and off. Sounds like you could use your power conditioner to turn the ACT-1 on and off.
One issue, is this limits you to analog signals, so the Blu Ray player would need to decode the sound track and provide it to stereo analog outputs. Players that do this are now available.
The general idea is to use a low end solid state integrated/receiver as the control center and to drive the bathroom. Then you can drive the GP with a better quality integrated that may not have all control features and second speaker options that you need. May not be a good option for you, but though you should consider it. |
At $1300 budget, you're within sniffin' distance of a couple of great switching integrateds--the PS Audio C-100 Trio at $1595 and the NuForce at $1695. If you want to stay well within budget, I can definitely vouch for the way the Onkyo A-9555 integrated amp brings vented floorstanding speakers (like the Grand Piano) alive. The Onkyo is fast, quiet, detailed, with lots of speed and "jump," but also smooth and musical once you break it in properly, match it with a good power cord, and leave it on or in standby all the time. It is leagues ahead of the Outlaw RR2150, which I owned and sent back. I marvel every day at how good the Onkyo is. With the Onkyo A-9555 and current crop of integrateds from NAD and Cambridge, I don't even consider the Outlaw good for the money. It is slow with a rolled off treble, something you don't want with the Grand Piano. |
It doesnt have a 12V trigger,but if you are in the Mpls/St Paul area,I have an older Sansui that is pretty good and you are welcome to audition it,good luck,Bob |
Doggg, there is a B & K reference 20 surround proccessor and a 200 w pc b&k power amplifier on audiogon now. is this a good combination?.
Thanks |
I wasn't suggesting that you use a onkyo receiver. I was just trying to say that onkyo seems to work well with them. What I was suggesting is that you look into b&k seperates(preamp and amp) because I've never heard the pianos sound as good with anything else. If your looking at preowned this should be in your budget. |
I have not A/B'd the Bel Canto and the Outlaw, but I have heard them both. When I heard the Outlaw, I remember thinking it was good _for the money_.
Honestly, however, I think the Bel Canto is in a whole 'nother league, but that is just this guy's opinion. Then again it should be, as it costs 4x as much.
I assume the Velodyne is a powered sub. If so, the Bel Canto can run it through a pair of RCA cables, which is how I run the sub I have. |
What about this set up, let me know what you all think.
Outlaw RR 2150 with velodyne spl 1000 sub. cross over at 80 HZ.
why? it is will be Ok for music and movies. I get all the convenience of the features of the outlaw. This way the 100 w of the outlaw will work on the high and mid range and mid bass of the SF grand piano while the demanding lower frequencies are handled by the 1000 rms of the velodyne. I think this is a good set up even for music.
I know i will not get the best of the sonus fabers, these are a liability to me because to get the best out them I have to loose an arm and a leg+give up a lot of features from a reciever, because most high end amps or sperates don't have all those features.
-I am considering the Bel Canto integrated, the onkyo integrated, but I think the above set up is the most reasonable FOR me as long there ARE NO SUPRISES. WHAT I MEAN BY SURPRISE, THAT AFTER DOING IT I FIND IT IS NOT BETTER THAN THE HARMAN KARDON I HAVE NOW!!!! I WANT SOME IMPROVEMENT OVER MY HK 3480 BUT NOT A GREAT IMPROVEMENT. WILL THIS SET UP WITH THE OUTLAW DO IT OR NOT?.
TO MAKE IT EASY, ASSUME THAT MY CURRENT HARMAN KARDON GIVES ME 4/10 IN PERFORMANCE(WHERE 10/10 IS PERFORMANCE OF SEPERATES COSTING $6000-$1000) AND 8/10 IN CONVENIENCE, WILL THIS OUTLAE SET UP GIVE ME 6-7/10 PERFORMANCE. FOR THE CONVIENCE I ALREADY KNOW IT IS A 10/10. I JUST NEED HELP JUDJING THE PERFROMANCE.MY BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH HK WAS THE BASS AND MID BASS.
so the question is not what is the best but how will the outlaw RR 2150, with the sub compare to my HK 3480.
SO LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU ALL THINK, PLEASE. THANKS IN ADVANCE |
For the price, the Onkyo A-9555 is very good. A friend uses one to drive a pair of Paradigm Studio 100s that are not an easy load. It does quite well I think.
As Johnnyb53 mentioned, class D amps offer efficient power for cheap. I use a Bel Canto S300i integrated in my bedroom that runs about $1,100 or so used (there are a few on Audiogon now).
Neutral sounding, lots of power and detail, excellent build quality too, and small. Probably worth considering for your needs.
Good luck. |
Ok. i see, you mention the 906. Sorry for that but this is an AVR and it is expesive. I think it is over my budget. Would an 955 intergrated be ok? |
Doggg
Thanks for you input, when you say Onkyo, which one you mean . is it the TX-8555?, it is the best stereo reciever they have. It is not expensive at all. Is this the one you tried?
Thanks again. |
I have sonus faber grand piano homes and have tried many different amps/preamps with them. From everything I've tried (including some very nice amps: classe, jolida, cinepro,levinson) they sounded best with a b&k amp preamp setup(ref20 and 200w matching amp). I have them hooked up to a onkyo 906 receiver now and I have to agree about onkyo matching very nicely with the pianos. Almost as good as the b&k. |
Sorry, I was confusing the KW 500 integrated with the MF kw550 monoblocks which are made to sit next to the speakers they're supercharging. I think the latest version of the NuForce integrated would give you just what you're looking for. If you have a decent line stage (and the RR2150 would not be that), the Outlaw 2200 M-blocks would be good. However, if you really want something that makes those SFs come alive and makes a minimal impact on your rack space, check out the 8.5" wide, 8.5 lb. NuForce 1A-7 V2 integrated amp. Yes, it's a bit over your budget, but I think it would give you exactly what you're looking for and satisfy you for years to come. If you want to keep it to $1K or below, try to find a recently discontinued PS Audio Trio integrated. I've seen those on closeout for around $1K awhile back, but not recently. |
I am selling the KW 500 because I am not using my old stereo system for critical listening a lot and it is a waste to keep it for 1-3 hours of listening a month. so I decided to sell it. It sounded great. but my bedroom project is another humble yet decent stereo project that should cost me half the price of KW 500 when I got it new.
KW 500 is an outstanding integrated. It may be too much for the SF grand piano speakers, it handled the Andra I speakers with ease and authority and musicality. I love the KW 500 but I am not happy with the HK on the Sonus faber speakers. |
Thanks for all this input. I can't keep the Kw 500 because there is no place for it in the bedroom cabinet it would break the cabinet. and it is wider than the cabinet. I purchased the salamander cabinet downstairs specifically for this beast. I wish it was smaller and lighter. I think it desrves my Anrda I speakers which it used to drive. The anrda I speakers are part of my hometheater now(I know it sounds crazy). but it the only piece left of my old system.
An integrated is fine. I have to look at all these models recommended and get back. I am very happy with the outlaw RR2150 except for the power rating. I can sqweeze the 200 WPC outlaw monblocks (i am not sure what are they called) they are less than 2 inches each. and use the RR 2150 as a preamp but use no sub. this may go over the budget by a $100 or so. I can live with that. I am looking for a perfect marriage between convience and good sound(not the absolute sound of halcro, BAT ...etc). My bedroom is so uneven with sitting area one one side and a wall on the other, so I am not sure I will get a superb sound but at least something I can enjoy. What I mean , I want to do the best I can but not go overboard, this is not a treated room or even ideal for music also, I don't have a dedicated 20 amp line like i have downstairs. So i am willing to accept some compromise but not to the level of the harman kardon I am using now.
Thanks to all of you. I will check those names over the week end.Mor input would be more help I am learning about brands I never heard of. Thanks |
Why don't you keep the MF kw500s and replace your receiver with a good integrated or preamp? My son has the HK 3380 (identical to the HK 3480 minus a few watts), and although it's pretty fast and transparent in the mid-band (at the expense of everything else), I can tell it would be a poor match for the SF Concerto Grand Pianos. Nor would it make a good front end for the MF kw500s. Get a nice little integrated or line stage for your KWs. May I suggest the Parasound Classic 2100? Although I haven't heard it, I've gotten a high recommendation on it from an experienced enthusiast with similar tastes to mine. It also has built-in phono preamp. Another possibility might be this Antique Sound line stage. If you're dumping the KW500s because they didn't sound good downstream of the HK 3480, you're barking up the wrong tree. The HK isn't a good enough front end for the MFs. |
Just to complicate things: If tuner is not important at all, why a receiver rather than a stereo integrated? Much more selection of higher quality gear.
Second, many of us leave our gear on all the time, is there reason why you would need a sleep function.....
Your speakers are of high quality and deserve and need amplification of better quality than usually found in receivers.... Sure you can´t keep your MF kw500? |
b & k avr 202 or 307 would fit your criteria--they sound great in stereo, have second zone function, bass management and fantastic learning remote. easily available used for $350-$650 or so; very reliable and supportive company. |
Get a used Carver Star fire yes that is correct Star fire. It has all the amperes you will require to get that cathedral rocking anda rollin. |
For that size listening area I think you're shooting 'way too low with the Outlaw. I have a similar-sized listening area, and I'm real familiar with the "voice" of the Concerto Grand Piano. I had an Outlaw RR2150 and sent it back. It was lacking compared to what it was supposed to replace--a 20-yr-old pawnshop stack of Amber electronics. It's possible that the early run of RR2150s had some issues that were later addressed, but I worked really hard at breaking it in and it simply didn't "cook" for me. Now I use the similarly-priced and powered Onkyo A-9555 integrated amp and I personally find it infinitely better at powering my small column Mirages. In fact, I've found that the Grand Pianos have a similar tonal balance to the Mirage and probably sing best with a similar amp. Both are narrow columns with small ported bass drivers. I recommend either a good switching amp--the Onkyo might do but a NuForce or PS Audio would be even better--or a good old-fashioned high current amp. The 150 wpc Vincent SP-331, but you'd also need a preamp. For an integrated, the 120 wpc Cambridge 840A might be a good match. Normally it's $1600 but this sale or closeout puts it within sniffing distance of the Outlaw and it's MUCH better. The NAD C 355BEE should be a contender as well. |
I recently bought the Outlaw and believe this is an exceptional piece. I'm listening and enjoying more music than I have in a long time. Really sorts the music out getting rid of the jumble which reduces listener fatigue. |
You need at least 100 watts & probably 200 would be better. Not many receivers can handle what you want. Find a Sunfire or maybe a B&K or Denon AV receiver. An older Denon 5000 series would work great. None of these will be $300 though. In vintage you could look at a really big Marantz but no 12v triggers. |
Wpines
Thanks you sooooo much. I looked at the specs. The outlaw has eveything I need, I mean everything, at a great, great price. Thanks again
My only concern would it drive the grand pianos with ease.my room os 25X 22 with cathedral ceiling. I think the SF grand piano speakers have a sensitivity of 87 db if I am not mistaken.
Any way, I can get a subwoofer and select the crossover freq, a feature i haven't found in any stereo reciever. |
Vintage - McIntosh MA5100
Current - Outlaw RR2150
Use an External trigger switch |
