Step Up Transformers….Are they Worth the Trouble?

@mijostyn 

Exactly! Musicality should be inherent in the music itself, rather than introduced or altered by our choice of gear. We may choose a different path but the end goal is to end up with a system that faithfully reproduces the original recording, allowing the music to speak for itself without any additional influence from the components. 

@mdalton 

Glad to hear hum is gone, It sounds like you're quite pleased with the improvements. Does lowering the ratio means sending the HM-7 back to Swissoner?

“May wait until it’s burned in a bit before I experiment.”
Good plan! 

I am also considering auditioning Whest Audio TWO.2 Discrete dual mono phono. I would love to hear your direct experience and what cart you’re using with Whest phono. 

@mdalton 

By Aug 31st. 

@kennyc

Depending on your budget, I would encourage you to try SUT. Reach out to Bob Sattin @Bob Devices, his SUT’s are reasonably priced. Personally, I wouldn’t get hung up on Copper vs Silver windings. I do not have a direct experience with SUT yet but my upcoming audition includes a EMIA SUT that was build for Fuuga cart, trans-impedance phono, tube phono with MC/MM options.

As others have reported, a customized SUT should sound better; @mdalton recently implemented Swissoner HM-7 SUT with Koetsu Urushi Tsugaru and reported, “Way more dynamic, without losing koetsu magic”.

There is no substitute for trying things in your system and make an informed decision based on your own findings.

@lewm 

That would be correct. My dealer is affording me the opportunity to choose the best option for Etsuro Bordeaux and Fuuga Carts. I will make a decision on Carts / Phono and SUT only after listening, 

Test 1 - Bordeaux/ Fuuga  ➡️  Allnic H-6500 MC Input 

Test 2 - Fuuga / Bordeaux  ➡️ EMIA ➡️ H-6500 MM Input 

Test 3 - Fuuga / Bordeaux ➡️ Konus Phono 

Test 4 - Fuuga / Bordeaux ➡️ Accuphase Phono Board, will A/B both MM and MC 

Cheers! 

“if copper cost over $1000 / oz, it would be the most desired audiophile wire metal BY FAR….We take for granted that it’s so good, and affordable.”

@mulveling

Agreed. I believe lot of our choices are driven by our personal preferences, budget and system constraints. When it comes to audio, there are so many ways to skin the cat.

Speaking of SUT’s, there is a brand from France called Sculpture. They are appear to be well built and reasonably priced. Don’t get much press in US but they are quite popular across the pond. I plan to try one once the dust settles on my choice of cart and phono.

@mdalton 

Thanks for the heads up. I may pick up the Sculpture copper version if I end up with Fuuga and Bordeaux carts 🤣 

@glennewdick 

What are some of the brands that are offering good head amp/phono stage. My Google search did not show any good results. Thank you! 

“their stuff competes with any other tube gear up to $10k, so potentially a great value”
@mdalton

I am inclined to agree on value proposition. There are plenty of good offerings coming out of Eastern Europe in last few years. Now if you consider Fezz Audio, they will need to add electric blue to their color palette….lol! My top picks would be Big Calm and EverGreen 😊

@mdalton 

LOL!  I figured it out by googling the SUT. It’s a very interesting brand. I love the uncluttered design throughout their product lineup. No idea how they sound but interesting nevertheless. Their 300B mono’s is definitely worth the audition if I had the higher efficiency speakers. 

@lewm ..thanks for the suggestions. 

“There are many of us here that not only won’t use a SUT but also shy away from tube phono stages.”
@mijostyn

And there are many who do use SUT and tube phono….to each their own, right! Your point well taken on not committing to spend before I vetting the components in the analog chain.

@mijostyn 

Thanks for your recommendation on Lino C which BTW is very similar to Konus Audio Vinyle phono. And I am auditioning / comparing this phono with Allnic in next week or so. As far as SUT’s goes, gotta get it out of my mind by inserting in the signal chain ahead the two phono’s (Allnic and Whest) with contrasting topologies. 

If I really like what I hear with EMIA SUT (loaner) then I will be ordering Etsuro Transformer to mate with Etsuro Bordeaux cartridge. 

@mdalton

Thank you for your sharing your experience. Did you end up lowering ratio or found factory setting to be more acceptable?

I am hoping to find a perfect setting for Bordeaux / Fuuga with Allnic H-6500 before I purchase Etsuro or Sculpture SUT’s. The EMIA/Fuuga pairing should be a good indicator if H-6500 is not quite all there. I have high expectations for H-6500….it all unfolds on Labor Day weekend.

On another note, I am going straight from 301 motor to power conditioner (bypassing the IEC). My dealer bought a very high quality Lithe Copper Power cable. I am going to terminate this cable with Furutech FI-28 (G) plug.

“The situation does not tilt towards high gain phono stages and MC cartridges until you are spending in the vicinity upwards of $15,000 and most of us are not spending that much.”

@mijostyn 

Your point well noted. I am beyond the $15K mark but still below my initial goal of staying under $30K. 

@mijostyn 

Sorry for not being clear earlier, I meant $30K for complete analog setup. This includes, TT, Tonearm, Cart and Phono. 

Your recommendation for cart and phono duly noted. 
 

@mijostyn 

Are you trying to be funny….why would I give up Garrard 301 and Reed 3P tonearm and consider getting “Sota Sapphire, Kuzma 4 point 9”. 

“Music is more than entertainment for some of us: it is nutritious, sustaining our spirit just as food sustains the body.”

@dogberry, well said! Regardless of how we choose to listen, music is an essential element of my daily routine. 

“In my own experience transimpedance mode should be reserved for cartridges with an impedance below 2 ohms”

@mijostyn

Based on your experience, I should rule out a transimpedance phono since both of my carts are spec’d over 2Ω. Right?

Update: Lot of listening yesterday with my new TT, cart and phono. I end up preferring Allnic H-6500 (tube) phono over Konus MC3000 (trans impedance) phono in my system. Allnic was more synergistic with rest of my system. For a tube phono (12 tubes), H-6500 is one hell of a phono pre; I am pleasantly surprised by it’s perfect balance being a tube phono (in direct contrast with Konus), it’s dead quiet, harmonics that are synonymous with valves but not overly tubey or syrupy yet incredibly detailed. Not to mention thoughtful features, exquisite build quality and tube rectification in external power supply.

Similarly, Etsuro Bordeaux bettered Fuuga in terms overall detail and depth. Bordeaux is a beautiful sounding cart, just like a fine vino; the passion and attention to detail of artisans at Excel Sound was evident from very first note. Bordeaux aptly renders clarity, balance, and the immersive quality of any well recorded album.

My modest but carefully chosen collection of recordings shined through the foursome of 301, 3P, Bordeaux and H-6500. They allowed music to simply breathe, quiet passages were intimate and louder sections just as impactful without any distortion. The tonal balance was also impeccable, ensuring that no frequency range dominates or feels lacking, bass was tight and controlled, revealing subtle details and nuances that enhances our emotional connection to the music.

I plan on getting Etsuro SUT once I cross the initial break-in threshold.

My next priority is to get a better TT isolation. Thinking about SRA Ohio Class platform and Scuttle 2 level extra-wide custom rack.

Back to cleaning records and more listening. Thank you all for your thoughtful input and advice.

@lewm

Thank you for your input. I hear you on extra connections but this is something I would like to explore down the road. I wouldn’t know if Allnic is doing full justice to Bordeaux unless I pair it with an external SUT. SUT is not a priority right now but more or less a wish list item that needs to be checked off :-)

@wrm57 

Thank you for your feedback. You’re spot on Allnic…I found 1:26 ~ 28dB gain as perfect setting. Whether external SUT  detracts or adds anything, time will tell. Right now, I am dealing with my TT not liking my REL subs….I need to break that feedback loop of sub > turntable > stylus > sub > turntable > stylus > sub. 

Update: Feedback issue resolved by placing IsoAcoustics Iso-Puck Series Acoustic Isolators (Iso-Puck Mini, 6 lbs max/Unit, 8-Pack) x 2.  These little ‘pucks’  absorbing all the energy being transmitted from TT to my rack and beyond and vice versa. 12 of these amazing pucks are strategically placed underneath my TT. 

“I’m guessing your feedback was well into audible spectrum”

@mulveling

Yes, it was to the point that I couldn’t listen through Allnic as it lacks subsonic filter. I went back to phono board in my Accuphase Integrated, which is pretty darn good and has a subsonic filter. Encouraged by its ability, I went ahead and ordered the latest version of phono board - AD60, thought what the heck, for $1275; it wouldn’t hurt to have the latest phono board if I opted to return the Allnic H-6500 phono.

I am now looking into upgrading couple of internal parts to further reduce / eliminate vibrations from Garrard’s motor and bearing. I am not completely satisfied with its performance in stock version. This thing reminds me of gearheads who are constantly working towards improving the performance of garage kept (mostly) classic automobiles…lol!

@lewm @mijostyn 

A strong choice or preference for a component in a system is only an indicator that component works well with rest of the components and to user liking.

A manufacturer design their components to be universally acceptable in an application it is intended for, yet we pick brand a, b or c driven by our preferences for certain sound characteristics and affordability.

When someone makes a recommendation, I always try to find out what kind of sound they gravitate towards and rest of the components. This approach has helped me tremendously with a my current setup..and i absolutely love the way my audio system connects me to music. 

“What do I prefer? Accuracy” Accuracy in tonal balance, timbre, detail and imaging along with the lack of distortion, accurate transient response and dynamic capability. 

@mijostyn 

I think most people would agree with this. I don’t want to misconstrue your statement but I firmly believe, it’s upto to a person to decide what degree of accuracy they want to hear or prefer. I have heard components that measured perfectly but sound like crap or should I say unable to connect end user to music. 

Of course we want to replicate small jazz club like experience..it’s very intimate, emotional and connects your soul to the music and artist. Couple of recordings comes to mind, Norah Jones’s Live at Ronnie Scott's, Scott Hamilton & Andrea Pozza- I Could Write A Book and Fausto Mesolella - Live at Ad Alcatraz. All different venues but you’re transported to each of these venues every time I cue up these recordings. Read up on I Could Write A Book recording background..quite an interesting story, I know I would love to be in one of those place. 

I completely agree with your statement below, I think that’s what makes our pursuit so much fun!

“That connection is a moving target and depends more on your mood just as much as the actual performance of the system”. 

@mdalton 

Thanks for sharing…that’s saying a lot about HM-7 cause Hana EH and Koetsu are two very different carts and in opposite extremes in terms of $$$ and performance. I guess your previous SUT was holding back Koetsu.

Strange things happen when we keep an open mind :-)