The reason I ask is because the Zanden pair and the Aesthetix pair are on my current shortlist. Of the four pieces in question I have only heard the Callisto in my system. From that and from what I've read, I am merely making assumptions about the Io.
As for the Zanden, I am going by how good their DAC sounds and by what I've read.
Since: the Callisto is the best linestage that I've heard so far within my system;
I can get the Aesthetix gear at an attractive price;
and I am not likely to hear either of the Zanden pieces in my system;
I'm probably going to end up with the Aesthetix. |
|
I went down this path awhile ago and came upon the EE Minimax Phono which I think is excellent and worth checking out. |
Exlibris - have you ever considered a CAT Legend with built in phono stage? |
I'd like a little more harmonic richness than what the CAT products offer. |
The Aesthetix IO, has wonderful richness, tone and great dynamic weight. I spoke at length with Albert Porter about his cables that replace the IO stock cables. Apparently these cables, along with NOS tubes, materially bring down the noise level. |
Exlibris, That is what I did. I had opportunity audition Zanden products at home. It started with the DAC signature, then the Transport w/ I2S i/f. The Combo was and is so good that I got the phonostage. It immediately surpassed the Vendetta (harmonic richness/realness, may be not dynamics). So i had to have Linestage try. It too lived beyond my expectations and bettered the MBL 6010D (Once again harmonic richness/realness) I could have gotten the IO for audition too, but Zanden synergy was a big plus in getting these components. Next up is the the 9600 monoblocks for audition. I am keeping my finger crossed. All the best to you with the I0. |
Just out of curiosity has anyone taken the EAR 834p to the top, or anyone heard one in a system?
I am still relatively new to analog and am exploring the potential of the Paravicini design. I just recently changed the tubes in the 834p phono stage and can cannot believe how good my system sounds!!!
I am wondering if batteries run through a step up transformer can be used to power the EAR 834p? Or at the very least take the power supply out and install in a separate chassis. |
I know it was mentioned before, but if you don't use a LOMC then a Hagerman Trumpet makes an awesome stage. Great dynamics, musical richness and the ability to pull all sorts of things out of the grooves that I didn't know were there before.
Enjoy,
Bob |
Kevin Carter has a new differential phono stage in prototype that is said to "blow-away" the current SE kit. It uses the new Lundahl input trannies, cascode CCSs, and a full differential topology. I can't wait to get my hands on one. The bad news is: the price will probably be in the 4-5K range. |
Nilthepill, now it is my tun to say that I am in 100% agreement with you. The 9600 on my Quads seems perfect synergy. For the phonostage I just had a go at a Wavac, although I thought of Zanden, but I got an offer which I couldn't refuse. Wonder how the Wavac will mate. UPS willling, I should have it tomorrow. I had an IO about 5 years ago, found it a bit noisy at the beginning, but after extensive tube rolling it was absolute bliss with excellent dynamics. A change of fortunes forced me to sell it with all the rest of my gear. I still miss it today.
Cheers,
Detlof |
Detlof, Let us know how Wavac works out with the 9600. I am eager to lay my hands on the 9600 before my 'fortune' changes;-) |
Well, the Wavac has arrived and put into the chain and as its sound is slowly evolving, it seems both fast, dynamic, absolutely quiet and throwing a wonderful soundstage. It is still opening up after about 6 hours of playing. A bit darkish at first, that was changed by careful placing of the Walker's point stuff under the gear and on top. We will see how it evolves, so far it looks more than just good. |
Anyone familiar with the phono section of the Kondo Audio note Japan M77 and their external step-up transformer? |
Kondo Audio Note Japan M7 phonostage?
Anyone?
Bueller? |
Wavestream Kinectics? I haven't owned or heard in my own system but was impressed with what I heard elsewhere. |
Agree with Exlibris...Kondo M7, now if only I can ever afford one I'd be in heaven! |
Busypk,
I haven't heard it myself, I was just looking for comments from those who had. You've obviously heard it; was it in a system with which you were familiar? |
Here is a list of phono stages mentioned above:
Thor Cantatus or 3000
Atma-Sphere MP-1
Audio Research PH7
Aesthetix IO
Conrad Johnson TEA-1
CAT SL-1
Manley Steelhead
BAT VK-P10SE
Walker Audio Reference
Aesthetix Io Signature
ASR Basis Exclusive
Einstein- The Turntable's Choice
Air Tight ATE-2
Boulder 2008
Lyra Connosuer
Wavestream Kinetics
Viva
Zanden 1200
Vendetta Research
Clear Audio Balance Reference
Boulder 2008
Shindo
Tron
Klyne
Wavac
Nagra PL-P
ASR Basis Exclusive
Zanden
Raul's Essential 3150 Phono line Preamp
Sentec EQ-10
Nick Doshi's Alaap
==================
Any others?
?? Fm Acoustics, Dartzeel, Tom Evan's, Lamm, Supratek, VAC Renaissance, Art Audio, Syrah, ZYX, Rowland,
For those on a budget the stand out phono stages for their price point could include these:
Hagerman Trumpet
Ear 834p Modified
Jlti
Graham slee era gold V
K&K Kit
Sutherland
Nova Phenomena
Simaudio LP 5.3
Audio research ph3 or 5
PS Audio GCPH
Eastern Electric
Tom Evans Groove
Acoustech
Sutherland PH.D
George Wright
Simaudio LP 5.3
Conrad Johnson Premier-15
Artemis Labs
Pass Labs Xono
Art audio
Herron VTPH-1
Cary ph302
WhestPS.20
Pass Aleph
H-Cat
============================
For those analog philes in it for a while it is well known that synergy plays a big role, e.g. cartridge to stage tonearm to cartridge, hence all the different responses. This list was compiled mainly to include the names of excellent players that may have otherwise been missed due to the rarity of the product or little advertisement since it is a niche market.
Feel free to contribute. |
Kondo Audio Note Japan M-7
Kondo Audio Note Japan M-1000 mkII |
Pedrillo, thanks for the thread and the compilation of phono stages. Did you seperate the categories above based on price alone? |
Mainiac,
Yes the groups were formed based on price.
There are a couple in the less expensive group that may belong in the top notch group though. |
I notice that Zanden, ASR and Boulder were mentioned twice. Is that a clue that they're better? ;-) |
Piedpiper,
Regarding the doubles strictly a typo.
Would like to hear from goners who had the pleasure of owning some of these great phono stages, what were the phono stages that stayed and which were let go. And associated gear? |
OK, I'm just starting to get a handle on the ZYX Artisan which on first listen is just outstanding. So far I think its better than my VAC Ren Mk2 (not sig) which was better than Aesthetix Rhea and almost as good as Doshi Alaaps in a head to head to head. Very strong and extended bass, and smooth top to bottom. Its only got about 15 hours on it, but it plays in the big leagues, IMO. Of course the synergy with ZYX Airy 2 SB cart may be a big factor ;~) |
I notice that Zanden, ASR and Boulder were mentioned twice. Is that a clue that they're better? ;-) As a matter of fact, the expensive Boulder is a very good phono. The asr is also OK -- but without the same level of performance (or I just don't like integrated circuits). Amazingly, a modded EAR is also good and much cheaper. |
Here is a list of phono stages mentioned above:
Aesthetix IO
Air Tight ATE-2
Nick Doshi's Alaap
Art Audio
ASR Basis Exclusive
Atma-Sphere MP-1
Audio Research PH7
BAT VK-P10SE
Boulder 2008
CAT SL-1
Clear Audio Balance Reference
Conrad Johnson TEA-1
Einstein- The Turntable's Choice
Raul's Essential 3150 Phono line Preamp
Klyne
kondo audio note m7 or m-1000 mkII
Lamm lp2
Lyra Connosuer
Manley Steelhead
Nagra PL-P
Sentec EQ-10
Shindo
Thor Cantatus or 3000
Tron
Vendetta Research
Viva
Walker Audio Reference
Wavac
Wavestream Kinetics
Zanden 1200
==================
Any others?
?? Fm Acoustics, Dartzeel, Supratek, Syrah, ZYX, Rowland,
For those on a budget the stand out phono stages for their price point could include these:
Acoustech
Art audio
Artemis Labs
Audio research ph3 or 5
Cary ph302
Conrad Johnson Premier-15
Ear 834p Modified
Eastern Electric mini max
Tom Evans Groove
Graham slee era gold V
Hagerman Trumpet
H-Cat
Heed
Herron VTPH-1
Herron VTPH-1
Jlti
K&K Kit
Nova Phenomena
Pass Labs Xono Pass Aleph
PS Audio GCPH
Simaudio LP 5.3
Sutherland
WhestPS.20
George Wright
VAC Ren Mk2
============================
For those analog philes in it for a while it is well known that synergy plays a big role, e.g. cartridge to stage tonearm to cartridge, hence all the different responses. This list was compiled mainly to include the names of excellent players that may have otherwise been missed due to the rarity of the product or little advertisement since it is a niche market.
Feel free to contribute. |
The Aqvox Phono2 should be added to budget list.
The ModWright SWP should also qualify, although I'm not sure how you determine if its in the first and 2nd list. |
Pedrillo, I assume you intended to refer to the Pass XOno, not the old Aleph Ono? In which case I'm a bit puzzled to find it in the budget list. I don't know what the XOno retails for in the US, in Germany you'd need to fork out EUR 5.5 or thereabouts. Whatever, if it's too expensive for the second then it certainly deserves to be in the first list.
Here are my other contenders (I'll quote the retail where known, you decide where to put it)
State-of-the-Art (imho):
MalValve Preamp Three Phono (EUR 6k); there is also a MalValve Preamp Four Phono that I haven't had the pleasure of hearing and don't know the price tag, but since it's more than likely to be even better than the Three...
http://www.malvalve.de/preamp1.html
Big Overachievers:
Quad Twenty Four P (EUR 1.5k): I had this in my rig for a while. With the little bit of experience in tube-rolling I gained meantime, I'm sure it could score even higher.
Tom Evans Microgroove Plus (EUR 1.5k): I chose the Quad at the time because of its far greater flexibility and the little bit of additional mellowness seemed to fit my cart better, but wow, this little guy knows how to sing and swing.
Clearaudio Basic Plus (EUR 0.5k): impeccable in its own right, together with the Accu Plus (battery unit for another EUR 0.5k) astonishingly good.
Also, as I see you mention Whest PS.20R, its successor the Whest PS.30R (EUR 2.2k) is supposed to be a spectacular improvement (hearsay, though, haven't heard it myself) |
The Modwright SWP really should be on both lists. |
Just to clarify things a bit.
In most cases if a phono stage has been around for a while and shows up frequently used on a-gon for $2k or around there it falls into the less expensive group, the new phono stages that retail for the same around $2k they also end up in the budget group.
Some phono stages must certainly stand out as much better than others, but I'll let the experienced chime in, and eventually create an "a+" list in both price groups.
Some reference was made towards the cole, a kit (from Japan?) stating it as an over achiever. Anyone with experience on the cole?
Also those who have owned several phono stages and haven't chimed in, any worthy notes on comparisons?
Here are some that have been mentioned on gon and will be add to the lists : Quicksilver, ZYX Artisan, Quad QC-24P, Jadis JPP-200, Joule, Audio Horizons, Modwright SWP-9.0Se, Whest PS.30R, EAR 88pb, Martinson(whatever happened to this phono?), Malvalve, Evans Microgroove, Clearaudio Basis Plus, Accu Plus, Aqvox 2.
Just want to reiterate, this is not the end all list. So many other parts of our systems influence the sound we get. We all have different setups and room acoustics too and taste.
The main purpose of this list is to include stages that can offer great value at their price points. We all can't afford the exotics, therefore I included lesser expensive stages that still stir our souls. Then there are those brands with small advertisement budgets or are too new to be well known. Face it we have so many companies some are a one man show that are producing excellent electronics for music enjoyment. Unfortunately I have not heard most of those listed here, though I am working on it, give me a few decades. Another reason for this compilation is to put the names of phono stages on the map, into one list to get an idea of the variety. Eventually there will be two tier list in each price catagory. |
My 2 cents worth. My favorites that I've owned in preferred order:
1. Wavestream (latest)
2. Aesthetix Io Sig. MK II
3. Mares Connoisseur 2.0
4. Vendetta 2C
|
With my ZYX Airy 3 going to a K & K step up transformer, I auditioned a few phono preamps. The funny thing is that I had the phono pre all along. I connected my step up xformer to my properly setup Spectral DMC 10 Gamma (which I just recently had refurbished and brought up to 2007 spec) and then connected the output of the Spectral to a line level input on my Tri Vista 300. WOW. I've yet to hear anything better.
Has anyone else had this experience? |
Counterpoint SA-9, upgraded by its designer, beat out the Steelhead with ease. Hard to find used because most wise music lovers hang on to it. My current phono corrector. |
Gerrym5 ,
how would you compare your choices, especially the Io and the Wavestream? I've heard both but not side by side. |
I can second Swampwalker's opinion that ZYX Artisan is very good. I have not compared it in the same system with all the great ones noted above, but I have heard some of them in systems I greatly respect and enjoy, and have no desire to 'upgrade' to one of those other megabuck phono stages. I think the Artisan swings above its weight (both figuratively and literally - the thing weighs almost nothing). I have also used it in mono and compared it against the Zanden mono stage reasonably extensively (got an offer I could not refuse on the Zanden). The ZYX is smooth and silky and does not sound 'solid-state-y' to my ears, but the Zanden does have a bit more lushness (euphonia).
Among those above which I have heard, if they were all the same price, the one I would choose would be the Connoisseur. I have heard one twice, and each time was wonderful. I also like the line stage. |
Pedrillo,
I believe the very best phono stages are indeed very expensive but then again, they do possess state of the art components and design technology. FM Acoustic does a very good phonostage called the FM 222. However, the best I have ever heard (and which I own now) is the bespoke Essential 3160. It is not cheap, but you get a MC, MM and a line stage in the same unit. Apart from the flexibility that this allows, it is simply miles ahead of alternatives in design logic and execution.
A lot will depend on your own audial priorities, however, if you want live events brought into your listening space: the Essential 3160 is simply the best. It will change your expectations of hifi. Very, very, highly recommended. |
The Essential is an exceptional phono/line stage. One of the best we've heard. But to say it's "simply the best" is an overstatement, since it could not match our Nick Doshi Alaap.
If the Essential 3150 we demoed had outplayed our Alaap Mk I we'd have bought one. But it didn't, so we didn't. ;-)
The Essential is now the 3160, apparently improved in areas where it fell short of the Alaap. The Alaap is now the Mk II, improved in areas where it couldn't quite match the Essential.
That these preamps easily outplay competitors costing several times as much is indeed expectation-busting. That the designers continue to find ways to improve them is even more amazing. Like yours, our preamp search is over, probably forever.
|
This may be premature, but I just got the K & K assembled, and it is incredible right off the bat. I can't believe how good it is!! I should probably have waited and done more listening but this is really floating my boat. |
I just came back from a demo of three superb phono stages,in a system consisting of three different mfgrs electronics.All running the JM Labs Nova Utopia Be speakers,in a huge room,with all Nordost Odin cabling.Imposing,and very expensive!!All digital comparisons were either the top DCS or in the case of Zanden's demo,the Zanden CD system.
I've heard this speaker,many times,and in the same room,aplenty,and I really like them.....Just some opinions...
Firstly,the price of "anything" not made in the USA is getting absurd!Of course the US dollar is big time "low",but someone with good experience can do well,financially,with local mfgrs.For the first time(for me) I can truly see why many folks look to the Far East mfgrs,in an effort to save money.This HUGE price chasm seems to be more than economy(or performance)to be honest(only my opinion).Highly polished chrome,and solid aluminum chasis(even in "some" areas not always needed,for sonics)add big time to price.
OK,my point....if you have a really good system,and have spent much time tweaking/modding/voicing it,be "thrilled",because the very exotic/expensive stuff does not be too far ahead of "well thought out" alternatives,like many experienced guys "here" have mentioned they own.
To the superb demo....First up VAC's 150 wpc stereo amp,with the NEW preamp with built in phonostage,we started out with the DCS and though it was OK(46,000 dollar digital front end)I simply cannot see the big difference between something like a 9,000 dollar Audio Research CD player(CD-7)and "these" mega buck two box units.Maybe I'm losing some hearing.
Swithching to vinyl,made the DCS stuff(to me,and only an opinion)sound "flat,lifeless,and thin".Sorry!....THIS using a top Brinkman Table(gorgeous table and arm,btw)with "only" a Lyra Helikon.Not close,to "me"!More realistic warmth,depth yadda,yadda,yadda.The VAC built in phonostage is absolutely superb,and Kevin Hayes stated it was NOT close to being broken in.Damn good,to me.Loved it!
Next up ZANDEN(all Zanden,incl CD system,the two boxer).CD play was warmer(in a good way)than the DCS.Still knowing what vinyl was about to do,I could NOT get excited,and I DO own a fine CD player,for music unavailable on LP.
We moved to LP,and heard the difference when the RIAA feature was used(on that phono stage),using a good Decca LP.It was not bad before,and I'm not going to run out and buy it,but there was definitely better stage,and depth,with more "thereness" utilizing the RIAA feature on that Phono Stage.The thig that I LOVED about the Zanden phono stage was an uncanny sense of tonal beauty(not coloration,Imo)in female vocals.The Cantate Domino LP really was amazingly "real".Of course the Zanden is about 25 to 30 grand(just for phono stage),but wonderful....BTW,the VAC,with a price of 18,500 dollars(linestage included)really held up well,and seemed a superb design,BUT the Zanden is everything my friends have told me it was.Fabulous!
BTW,the Zanden amps were only 60 wpc,but did the BIG speakers(in a big room) justice.
Finally,HP's latest rave...The HUGE VTL mono amps(800wpc),with the Full Monty of VTL stuff,incl seperate Phonostage,but back to the DCS demoing digital first,which sounded slightly cold compared to the Zanden CD player.BIG bass though(with those 800 wpc)and some guys loved "that" bass sound.
Then VTL phono stage,and I am sorry to say the two previous sets of electronics were more convincing to me.The VTL amps seemed to be voiced to give real JOLT,and I think the speaker,which is really quite efficient,did not need this magnitude of power.It just sounded OK,to me(I don't think the "tube" topology in the VTL stuff was to my tastes).....Whereas the VAC and Zanden demo BOTH had me "thinking real",with my eyes closed,especially on the Cantate Domino LP.STUNNING!!
Yet,and Yet...I really have to give credit to my various friends' systems,who have spent years voicing/toying/modding,and just being good/experienced hobbyists.The actual difference(I know this was a dealer demo,and a very well-done one,but I know the speaker well,and it WAS being driven superbly)between "this" 350-400 thousand dollar set-up,and the "mere" around high five figure(really high) set-ups of my pals was "not" all that big.Definitely "gorgeous" and wonderful stuff,but the moral of my experience was/is...if you have a good system,and have been at it for a while be VERY happy!You are most likely within "so what" distance from the dream stuff.
Best. |
If I'm understanding you correctly, the amps and the linestage were different in all three demos?
If this was the case, I wouldn't be able to say anything meaningful about the contribution of any of the phonostages. |
Great report, sirspeedy. I do wish you would use the space bar a bit more, though. :-) |
Sirspeedy,
I totally agree with you! My system is no where near 6 figures and I think it beats the pants off many of the city's demo setups.
And especailly now as I just got he oppo 980 and highly recommend it.
I also bought the K & K phono stage which so far I think is an excellent phono maybe better than the ear 834p and jlti.
Also thanks for the informative description on your experience. |
Pedrillo,I'm totally happy for you.You semed like a fine fellow,when we met(in elevator)at HE-2007.BTW,as stated all I was doing was post some hobbyspeak.Just my "opinions",which I think I mentioned,"like three times"!These were "just impressions" made(admittedly in a dealer demo...a very "well done" one,btw)about how three different sets of electronics affected me....That's it!!
Please, don't anyone take the fun out of my posting some potentially entertaining info(to some,maybe)by making this into some reason for my having to have been politically correct,about a specific electronic "box",and why I felt another design appealed to me,in a "given" set-up.
Best. |
BTW,Pedrillo,I was NOT referring to you in my last post. |
I also recently purchased the K&K unit just a few weeks ago and so far I really love it, but I have only been able to try it out on the MM carts that I have (Benz Glider HOMC and Clearaudio Maestro). The whole reason I bought it is for the flexibility with MC carts but I just haven't been able to grab one yet to try. I wish I had more experience with phono stages to be able to compare, but against the stock MM stage in my VAC Avatar Super it is certainly much better. |
Thank you all for your insightful responses.
I am starting to realize the K & K is in a higher league than my other phono stages. It is bringing about a sweet sound and also a beautiful clear effortless treble that I was always hoping to hear from my high end system. I just may be there! Also doesn't seem to incur listener fatigue. |
|
Clio09,
You don't have to rub it in;~)
You have my attention now! Any stock tips? |
Google, Wellpoint, and CIGNA. Seriously.
I'm glad you are enjoying the K&K. Now go find some nice Audio Note Tantalum resistors to set your custom load impedance. |
