I see at the Spectron site that they have released a Mark 2 edition of the Musician III SE. But there isn't any discussion of what has actually changed in the amp besides the price, which is now $7195 up from $6495. If anyone knows what the new changes are, I would really love to know.
"I think it's weird if someone is buying a piece of audio just to let it modified first prior to listening. Or don't you agree with this?"
Dazzdax, I think "weird" is a little strong but I do see your point. That said, I think there are some component/modification pairings that are so widely hailed as exceptional that a pre-mod audition is unnecessary. I just cant imagine my Sony 9100ES performing at its current level without the Modwright Truth Mods.
Dazzdax--I agree. Though I did substantially improve a Marantz SA-8001 SACD player with mods from RAM. By and large though, The unit should be the engineering statement from the company as is. If they felt it needed improvement, it should be included.
Often audiophiles are getting to concerned witn modifications. It's as if without the modifications they can't live any longer with their unmodified gear. This is ridiculous: an audio unit, be it an amplifier, CD-player or speaker should sound good or not very good from the beginning and they should remain that way, with or without modifications. If you are only satisfied with the sound after the unit has been modified, what is the reason for buying it in the first place then? I think it's weird if someone is buying a piece of audio just to let it modified first prior to listening. Or don't you agree with this?
Yes, I have had my Musician III back from Spectron now for over a week, maybe going on two. I went from Musician III to M III SE Mk2.
Differences are: Bass is more controlled than before. I know this doesn't seem possible but as the amp is burning in I am finding the bass to be more extended, and articulate.
Speaking of articulate, voices, speaking and singing, are more clear by a magnitude. Easier to understand, even background singers and massed choral singers are not just understandable but clearly so.
I use a horn based speaker system to cover the mids to low treble. I never really gave the horns much thought. They were always clean and present, but now they are, like the bass, more controlled and faster sounding. Cymbals are shimmering in decay in a better way. Pianos are reverberating in a better, more focused way. Also the integration between my horns and ribbon super tweeter is better integrated. It is as if the horns have speed up to near the same speed as the ribbons. It is a pleasure.
Also, there are some physical differences. The two huge capacitors are replaced by banks of smaller, quicker ones. The output wiring is JPS Aluminata, and the binding posts are Cardas Patented ones. Now I use a bare wire connection and still these binding posts are better--better grip and easier to use. I also think they may sound better, but there is no way of distinguishing this with all the interior changes to the output section. Also, the fuses are different. Using upscale ceramic fuses have always made a change for the better, and I am sure in this case, too.
The SE Mk2 is in every way a better amp than the stock Musician III. I am damn happy I spent the money.
Has anyone done a Capacitor upgrade on their M3? I ordered mine with the upgrade, and I was wondering what the improvement was over the original version.
Isanchez; I am using giant StraightWire Spades into the posts under my Thiels. There is not a lot of room under there and Bananas would not make it. Also the spades were what I had when making the cables. I am able to make a very tight connection also which I like.
I used the same spades with the Canary cables and I used bare wire with the DNM's.
A warm hello to all my crazy audiophile buddies.I first listen to a Spectron Amp. driving a pair of Gallo's about 6 years ago and they made a huge impression. My problem lies in the fact that I've been burnt way to often in my pursuit for audio bliss.
What kind of connectors are you using? I've compared the regular connectors to Eichmann banana plugs. The Eichmann connectors were simply superior IMHO.
I used the Remote Sense cable when I had a single M III SE. It is a great cable. It's comparable with cables costing a lot more. There is simply more control (which is what this cable is supposed to do) and there is more detail and nuance with this cable. I have the Eichmann silver bananas and it was a great improvement over the regular termination.
Unfortunately as Bbro pointed out, I cannot use this cable now as I have two M III SE's in balanced configuration.
Ed, I have tried the remote sense with good results. Unfortunately if you plan to use two M III SE's or two SE MK 2s for monobloc balanced configuration then you can't use the remote sense cables.
I was wondering the same thing,I guess this one is just talked out.
On a related note,I tried posting a new topic regarding the use of the remote sense cables but it seems to have not made it through the moderator or something.Many posts seem to end that way ??????
Anyway,I have been experimenting on my own with Remote sense cables and I am wondering if anyone else is or if anyone else has even tried them?
30 days should yield about 720 hrs of activity for the amp. . . perhaps not a full break-in, but it should be enough to form an educated opinion of the Spectron Mk.2. . . . or of the monos.
30 days is better then 15,thats what Bel Canto switched to,and believe me 15 days isnt even close to enough days to make a decision.Not when it comes to digital.
Audiofeils' comment is probably the most succinct and accurate and I would have to count myself amongst the thin-skinned over-reactionaries. Fair and balanced summary, Bill. If you do hear the Spectron and are impressed - i.e. if it sounds vastly better than the other underwhelming D-class amps I've heard, be sure to let us know!
Hi Bill, I believe at least a while ago Spectron had a 30 days money back guarantee. . . that was used to enable audiophiles to try out Spectron amps without making a irrevocable commitment. You can give Spectron a buzz at 818-435-2090 and find out if the offer is still available.
Simon's post was smug and sarcastic. His poor attempt at humor was unfortunate and perhaps a ghostwriter at Spectron should "edit" his submissions.
However, if one looks at the product reviews and owner's comments, it would be disingenuous not to consider Spectron. I have never auditioned any of the products but would welcome the opportunity.
For a potential buyer to eliminate Spectron based solely on Simon's gaff, is an extremely thin skinned reaction IMO.
This whole thing has been blown out of proportion. Talk about a tempest in a teapot.
I don't own a Spectron, but I would like to try one. Simon's attempt at humor or sarcasm, whichever, wouldn't affect my decision to buy a Spectron one bit. From the many posts on audio forums all over the internet, it seems that Spectron's customer service is outstanding. And apparently the Musician III SE is incredible sounding.
I can think of numerous audio companies that truly deserve the scorn and condemnation that has been bandied about here, but I don't think Spectron is one of them.
I was not complaining.Clearly you tried to find this in my post and misinterpreted.
I am simply sharing my experience dealing with Spectron through Simon. He was eager to help if needed reasonable service but unable to comment on certain aspects of the amplifier and it ended there. I realize the II is before his time and I clearly said that already.
I agree that being able to contact the representative directly is nice,in fact Simon has repeatedly called me too about some other related matters.
Like I said,if the product were not so appealing this would not even have my interest.
This is the first I have heard of any product having "no fidelity to the true acoustic music" That is some endorsement.
Pass judgement on yourself if you need to pass it at all.
Audvidsvs, you been told by Simon that he joint company only after original Musician III was designed. (He designed, probably nearly 100% of the Signature and did a lot for Mk2 along with John and others in company). He DOES NOT KNOW Musician II - except design which when compared to Signature is indeed in stone age.
I am sure he told you, as he told me that Musician II has order of magnitude more distortions then Musician III and one of the reasons many lovers of this amplifier love it because its euphonic (due to very high degree of 2nd harmonics). Musician II has tremendous control, exceptional bass etc. Its "tube amp in steroids". While very pleasant for your ears it has no fidelity to the true acoustic music. He is professional musician (and so am I ) and he is right.
Instead of being thankful for his time and his willingness to answer phone even during weekends or late evenings and explaining all of these and surely your alternatives - you are ...complaining.
Musician II is fully supported and if you will have a problem it will be fixed in no time so this product is fully supported
Yet, Tvad's states, here in this thread, in writing that Spectron shows no support for older products!
Most interesting is that company looks after its customers and Musician II can be brought to 80% - 85% percent of Musician III SE Mk2 performance for very reasonable $1,295 (as of few minutes ago when I spoke with him). Considering that original Musician cost $3k - $3.5k and Musician III Mk2 $7.2k - its a BARGAIN !!! .
No, Rkmcv - these are not wolves, these are jackals, hyenas and vultures - they smell and see dying and decaying flesh and here they are with all these outrageous lies.
Regarding complain that they are busy with OEM - its preposterous: Let me quote from their web site:
"Spectron is one of very few companies that develop their own class D proprietary modules, digital and analog. John Ulrick has been awarded 6 patents in class D amplification, including a digital input/all digital implementation. Other team members have also multiple patents, awards and more then 300 peer-review publications.
...Spectron designs....a highly reliable continuous output 8000 watt power compact digital amplifier... The highly innovative design includes very high level power factor corrected switching power supplies using the latest PFC conversion technology and resonant mode DC:DC converters.
Spectron has found one its major strengths to be the cross-pollenization of audiophile and professional audio designs. The design under development will, potentially, revolutionize audiophile sound reproduction"
You don't like it? - buy amplifier with mass produced ICE modules and inferior switching power supplies, ask modifier to " to refresh colors" for a thousand dollars or more and enjoy!
A while ago, this country was.... you what it was. Today, only Spectron and NuForce do original R&D in digital amplification.
Maybe this is a ploy to draw more attention to the company and product. I mean if he hadnt have responded this way..how far would this thread have really gone? As I mentioned before, i dont think he meant any harm. He is a musician/engineer/audiophile. He is not the best customer service rep who speaks in a forum. But when i talked to him on the phone, he didnt seem to be short with his answers. I mean i don't think its right to burn someone at the stake over 1 reply in a forum even though it was kinda dry. We all have said something we should have responded differently about. Look at our politicians. They make verbal blunders all the time. It doesnt mean they arent good for the job or can or cant run our country. We are still going to vote for one of them.
I gues i can leave this that subject up for another thread. Eiether way, hopefully we all can learn something from this. Including Spectron.
Enough with these ruffeled feathers and rabid wolf attacks from all sides.
Is there really any side but what changed for the Mark 2? How does it sound? What is the upgrade path? Is the flippant remark really characteristic of customer service experience? Answers given.
More questions?
Do what works; e-mail Simon or call him regarding more questions or needs, if that is what you want, but let's return to the topic; if I may say so.
"I have no question that Spectron can handle the technical issues involved."
I agree completely. Virtually all comments from individuals who have dealt directly with Spectron are very positive. Quirky and puzzling forum posts do not equate to poor support and should not reflect on anything about the company other than perhaps their possible uncomfortable online personna. Did I raise my eyebrows and scratch my head a bit? Yeah, but I would not hesitate to purchase their product based upon any information contained in this thread.
I have spoken with Simon on several occasions about many issues. I have considered upgrading my MusicianII among other things.
His response has been uniform that he is not a technician nor a customer service person really and that he just must wear all of the hats in the company right now.
I find this to be somewhat hard to accept based upon his responses in this Forum and throughout our other conversations.
His general answer seems to be that the Amp I own is so old and "Over the hill" that it is not really even worth discussing with me. I realize they are one of only a few manufacturers who will provide an upgrade path in the first place but I look for a lot more detail before blindly going down that path.
When I have had other technical questions I have been told the amp is so before his time there with Spectron that he can not give any help whatsoever and that if I want to I can email a question to Mr Ulrick for a possible( but unlikely) answer but so far I have not ever received a reply to one of these.
I have even asked abbout certain features of my amp that are unknown to him and there is no attempt at all to get the information and no apology either.
Now I realize upon many telephone conversations with Simon that a certain amount is getting "lost in translation" but this is all the more reason to be careful with Spectron not an endorsement to send them business.
When I have asked about the marketing plans and whether they are considering adding to their staff to better serve customer inquiry it seems like an abstract notion that I am suggesting.
I also think that the OEM projects they are working on are taking a lot of company resources and the Consumer product side suffers.
Please don't get me wrong,I really like Simon and have learned to have a productive conversation with him,it has just taken some geting to know him first.
None of this would matter at all of course if the product were not so enticing and I have to say that I like it enough to remain interested despite any customer relations issues.
I also am amazed at how defensive some here can be when someone asks legitimate questons and is merely dismissed and wants more detail.
The attacks on Kabir as being anything less than sincere seem unfounded and childish here and who the heck decided that we are not engineers or concerned with the technical aspects of the hobby if we are audiophiles?
I beleive that it is reasonable to consider the customer relations history of a company that you are about to hand over 7K to for an amplifier.
This starts with the ability to provide basic information regarding amplifier/upgrades, etc. Spectron doesn't do a good job with this.
So, if they can't do a good job at providing the basic product information, how are they going to handle the more complex technical issues such as troubleshooting and matching with other components?
So, how many Spectron IIISE owners are seriously...seriously considering getting the MK2 upgrade? (If I lived in Chatsworth I'd be knocking at their front door tomorrow.)
What matters is how the amp sounds, its reliability and the quality of customer service. I can't yet answer to the above, but I did have one conversation with ST about auditioning his amp and found him helpful and generous with his time. He was also very funny, refreshingly unguarded and not afraid to be a little outrageous to make a point during a business call. Simon is a native of Russia. Perhaps in this case its best not to equate substance with a personal style that might simply be unfamiliar.
I agree TVAD, Spectron could benefit from a marketing professional to create a smoothly effective markcom machine for itself. Unfortunately such creatures do not come particularly cheap. . . a reasonable one well in the 6 figures. . . the salary can of course be readily absorbed by new Spectron customers. . . which is quite reasonable, Spectron amps probably yielding a sonic performance value in the $10K region.
Still chilling (in the sweltering Austin heat), G.
I am chilled. I think you are addressing your "chill out" comments to the wrong audience. I really don't think anyone who has commented in this thread is upset, losing any sleep, or least of all not enjoying music because of anything that was said. A few of us are maybe a little puzzled...that's all. If anyone should chill IMO it would first be Spectron who started this by dropping an awkward little bomb and then in a subsequent post offered an unsolicited lecture on what questions we should be asking and what topics we should be discussing. The second group who seem to be acting a little uptight are the posters who hold Spectron in such reverence and act as though we are in church being rude to the preacher rather than just a bunch of guys sitting around the room talking about amplifiers.
Very odd indeed gents. . . I for one did not deem Spectron's post offensive, condescending, defensive, or otherwise inimical. . . I do agree that it was remarkably light on content, to the extent of being almost tautological. . . yet I found it to be extremely funny. Spectron was experiencing a minor markcom resources challange at the time of the mishap. . . interesting thing is that any even temporary markcom challanges have the tendency to affect corporate communications and public perception. As Spectron is a no nonsense engineering-based manufacturer, rather than a company heavy on lofty marketing suavities, such occasional communications glitches may happen and will eventually recur. From our part we can either chill out. . .or deem ourselves amongst those who can not be happy unless they are unhappy. . . as for myself, I'd rather smile, chill out and enjoy my friends and my music.
Excellent post, Randyhat. I sure hope Spectron's musical aim hits the target better than his (their) public relations endeavors. I'm not sure why defensive, terse, petulant could not be replaced by humor, lightness, maybe even a little mea culpa? Doesn't really matter to me, as I will not be a Spectron owner now, but it seems a pity, since some rave about the sound. But to those who haven't heard it and who worry about service/attitude issues, perception is, sadly, reality. I'll stick with the Ralph Karstens, Paul Grzybeks, George Kayes and their ilk for my dealings.
As I stated in an earlier post, this one time flippant response appears to have been an aberration. We all occasionally respond to online questions or issues somewhat impulsively. Upon reflection we wish we had said things a little differently. Fairly or unfairly, I think the impact of these mini errors in judgment are magnified when they are made by persons representing a manufacturer.
It's clear from Spectron's most recent post that THEY want to control when and how this information is released. That's fine, nothing wrong with that except if your company has an online presence you have to expect the inevitable questions and respond to these questions in a manner that makes people MORE interested in your product rather than alienating them. Absent that, a briefly worded mea culpa goes a long way to make things right. However, to the bitter end Spectron has been intransigent in their seeming need to control the information and equally in denial that their original response was in any way off base. They stubbornly remain aloof and above the fray. As helpful and communicative as they are in one to one contacts, they seem somewhat staid and uncomfortable in this sometimes wild, unstructured and less controllable, off the cuff Internet environment.
A simple "I'm sorry" statement would have eliminated about 75% of this thread.
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