speaker capacitors-----leave alone or does it open pandora's box ?

Gang,

Just FYI, I have measured capacitance, and ESR (equivalent series resistance) as I have modded speakers.

I have been fortunate enough to speak with capacitor manufacturers about this particular subject, and their experience mirrors my own: neither ESR nor absolute capacitance explains perceived sound quality.

For a while, there was a belief ESR mattered, probably because film caps were universally better than bi-polar electrolytic. From my experience it does not make a difference so long as you properly compensate for loss in ESR with additional resistance. Some high ESR films sound better than low ESR film caps. The original Clarity MR come to mind as relatively high ESR film caps(but my memory is now foggy).

@Kosst - See, your recommendation for Solen’s seems much more reasonable. I will say I’ve only tried Audyn’s top end, the TrueCopper, and these at the suggestion of SpeakerDoctor (RIP). At Solen's low end I have not been very impressed. I think if the OP wanted to experiment with top end Solen bypass caps, and maybe some Mundorf Supreme’s he’d learn a great deal.

If you look back at my first suggestions, I keep trying to suggest the OP spend moderate amounts and experiment for himself. I think that was the last paragraph in your previous post, right? How much is a pair of Solen top-end 0.1uF caps? Probably pretty easy to try out. 

Best,

Erik

Thanks @grannyring !

I will say, Mundorf top end caps are weird. Magico is a big fan of them. Now, as I often say, BUY WHAT YOU LIKE!

To my ears, the Mundorf supreme’s scintillate. They aren’t bright so much as they sparkle. Like they saturate the top end with color.

Again, BUY WHAT YOU LIKE, but that’s what I hear, and many, many love that. I prefer the calmer and translucent waters of the Clarity line myself, but that doesn’t prevent me from hearing the differences and understanding some are really going to want to bring that sound home.

Best,

Erik

It is amazing the level on sonic improvement that can be realized with smart cap, inductor and resistor upgrades in speakers. Most builders use run of the mill and “cheap” crossover parts in their $20,000 speakers. They do it to save money. That simple. 

This is something I’ve never quite accepted about high end audio. If the sonic improvement is “amazing” by flipping $1 caps for $40 caps, why wouldn’t the builder do that themselves? To fetch $20k for your speakers you gotta sound amazing; and the return on cost for being able to sell them in another tier should be huge. So why don’t they do it? The only answer I can come up with is that it doesn’t make a difference; or the difference it does make doesn’t fit the sound the builder is going for. 

If I can make my $10k speakers sound like $15k with $300 worth of parts... why didn’t the guy do that and sell them to me for $15k?

It’s more like flipping $12 caps for $150 caps. Jupiter copper foils etc... Flipping $.35 Resistors for $30 resistors. It adds up and after dealer mark up the end price of the speaker is increased substantially. I have performed $2000 crossover upgrades that would increase the price of a $15,000 speaker to $25,000 after dealer mark up etc... The mark-up can be immense on high end gear.

Also, not all designers buy into more expensive parts sound better. They miss opportunities for SQ improvement. Many designers and builders spend time designing and building and have little time or inclination to obcess over how various caps and resistors sound in their design. This tedious task of part rolling and carefully listening is a different body of study and knowledge.

Until and unless you try it for yourself and learn, I’m afraid you will always scratch your head and wonder. Knowledge in this area of audio tweaking takes a great deal of time and effort. No way around it. You have to educate yourself through hours of trial and error with much work and careful listening. It is different from pure design only interested in a part that adheres to spec. Many builders laugh at the notion of “boutique” parts as I have had those conversations. I don’t blame them because these parts can be expensive and they don’t have the time or personality for such tedious and “questionable” endeavors.

At the same time there are plenty of builders that do offer these boutique parts and simply charge for them. They buy into and understand parts make a difference beyond just meeting spec. So it is happening and being offered by builders who know Duelund and Juputer film/paper and foil caps, as well as others, sound better than Poly caps.

Lastly, it is possible to replace a $10 Solen Fast Cap with say a $60 Film & foil cap from Jantzen (Alumen Z) and improve the sound of a given HEA speaker. The speaker set may have 4-8 total caps to replace. Also, you can also improve SQ with $4 Mills MRA resistors over sandcast. The total cost of this moderately priced upgrade is say $400. Some builders after all the mark-ups would sell this upgraded speaker for $2000-$2500 more! This is a very competitive business and one that is hard for the manufacturers to make enough money to stay in business. Every dollar matters and they do watch costs.

I replaced the bottom of the line Solen caps and sandcast resistors in my $14,000 Dali Epicon 6 speakers with $600 worth of part upgrades in the crossover. The result was very pleasing to myself and family. The improvement in sound quality before and after burn in was easily discerned and appreciated. It made a very good set of speakers even more to our liking. The Solen caps sound more closed in and rough compared to the Jupiter film and foils I used. The sandcast resistors also sounded more ragged compared to the more nuanced and refined Path Audio resistors. Dali has a long standing relationship with Solen and they spec their parts. I seriously doubt Dali has listened to their Epicon speakers with the parts I used. They simply used the same approved vendor they have always used. They needed to hit a certain price point and therefore spec’d the part used for these reasons.

Us DIY guys know that nice SQ improvements can be realized with our skills and effort.

^^^^^ You ask a question I've also been wondering about. The tube preamp that I modified cost under $1K new and the cost of the capacitor upgrade was under $70 and took me under an hour to do. It would have probably been cheaper for the original builder buying them bulk. The sound improvement was significant. I don't get it either...