Sound quality differences in streamers


Can there be sonic differences between moderate and high priced streamers when used for streaming only. I will not use or engage an onboard DAC or any other feature, just stream from Tidal or Amazon to DAC. If the unit is just transferring zeros and ones to a DAC can there be differences in say a $300 WiiM and a $3000 dSC streamer? Thanks

kckrs

I’m not going to disagree with any of the above, and I certainly agree that everything can make a difference. I have several rigs, several DACs, several streamers, amps, SS and tube, and way too many pairs of speakers, and with exception of a Cambridge Audio CXN V2, my WiiM mini, WiiM Pro, Bluesound Node 2i, Lumin Mini and audio built PC all run through outboard DACs.  Various Toppings, Denafrips, and Musical Paradise tube output stage DACs.  

I think this is where the law of diminishing returns and room setup comes into play.  In my lower cost, yet resolving systems in terrible room setups due to furniture, room size/shape, where the speakers can’t be ideally set up, I can’t really tell a great deal of difference in the streamer/DAC combos.  So it doesn’t matter, the WiiM mini with a Topping E30 sounds as good as good as any other combo due to room and speaker placement.  In fact swapping out various amps has more of an impact on SQ with same speakers than streamer/DAC.  
 

Now, when it comes to my “main” rig where every component costs thousands more, there is a tall ceiling, equilateral triangle listening position, decent room acoustics, a dead quiet tube amp and highly sensitive horn and French “audiophile” speakers, yes I can tell a difference.  But I also have several other tweaks in this set up, separate power line from box with true earth ground. hospital grade outlets, fiber optic internet router, Ethernet switch, LPS on everything I can, power conditioner, ceramic fuses, a DDC, R2R DAC, better cables, way too many NOS tubes, etc., etc..  So would I put the WiiM Mini in as my streamer? Heck no! 

So, moderately priced system, decent room acoustics, moderately priced streamer/DAC.  High-end system ($100K plus), high-end room set up, and no WAF, definitely high-end streamer/DAC.  OK system in office or bedroom, terrible room set up, inexpensive streamer/DAC ok, you’d be hard pressed to tell the difference.  Like I said, everything matters, up to a point, pocket book dependent.

Before getting there there is lots of noise on the line digital not being grounded 

put a ZPS on your router I use Linear Tube Audio which comes with a great DC cable to the router this makes a nice improvement , Ethernet cables too especially at the end point on your Ethernet hub something of quality with a LPS power supply and good quality clock , then your streamer ,innuos makes a good variety of streamers ,and sense app is very good .everything counts.

  1. There are differences between all price points for streamers.  More expensive streamers sound better.  There is the axiom of limiting returns.  The benefit/cost ratio decreases as price increases.  Brand and price point are personal choices because perceived improvements in SQ and benefit/cost ratio are subjective.  
  2. Everything in a system matters, including room and attention to set-up detail as well as components.  My perception of a hierarchy of importance, from most important to least important is speakers, front end (DAC/Streamer or turntable/arm/cartridge/phono stage), amplification (amp/preamp), electrical conditioning, cabling, room treatment, vibration control.  Others have different preferences. 

    My recommendation is a used Aurender N10 which are selling approximately at you $3000 cap.  Wonderful sounding streamer.  Audition and make your own judgement.  You may find something you like more.  

Very noticeable differences using as a streamer only.  I have a McIntosh C49 Preamp into a McIntosh MA462 so they resolve very well and has a good McIntosh DAC.  Using a Wiim Ultra ($350) to stream only sounds ok/good, is better than Bluetooth and the unit works very, very well, punching way above weight for $.

Next I tried an ELECTROCOMPANIET ECM 1 MKII - High End DAC and Streamer ($6,000)... The DAC is not as good as the McIntosh, but getting close.  As a streamer only, it sounds better than the Wiim, but the user interface and user experience isn't as good as the $350 Wiim, LOL.  But yes, sounds better.  Wiim 85% of way there, Electrocompaniet 93ish% there.

Next I tried an EverSolo DMP A-6 Master Edition ($1,200).  As a streamer only this is the ticket - sounds BETTER than Electrocompaniet 96ish% there - has a good user interface/experience too.  The DAC is ok, not great... not as good as the Electrocompaniet, but better than the Wiim by a lot.

Next I tried an EverSolo DMP A-8 ($1,880).  This is a terrific streamer and DAC.  All around better than the Electrocompaniet in every aspect.  The DAC is nearly as good as McIntosh, but the streamer is outstanding - very detailed and clean.

I'm using the DMP A-8 to stream via its DAC analog into a McIntosh MA-352 integrated for my office.  Super setup for the money.

So, to me, sometimes spending more is not better - The Chinese and Koreans are surpassing streamer tech of Europe in my opinion, especially when considering the money.

 

I have no trouble believing there are qualitative differences between streamers. My own experience with a Wiim Pro Plus (as streamer only) and a decent quality R-core linear power supply has shown me that the Pro Plus can be seriously improved with the use of such a power supply.

That's the beauty of some of these inexpensive 5V streamers-they can be improved upon pretty substantially with a high quality but low price power supply. The question then becomes at what kind of a price point do the laws of diminishing returns kick in. 

Here's a link to a review suggesting that a Wiim Mini with quality LPS came very close to a $2500 Lumin: 

https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/a-tale-of-two-streamers-r1159/

 

Not bad!

 

The Aurender stuff looks extremely well put together to me once you get up into the $2K to $4k range. I'd be curious to hear one of those, but all in all, I am pretty happy with the results I'm getting in the cheap end of the gene pool, and that's compared to a $10K+ (not that I paid that for it) analog front end. 

My analog is definitely better, but with the right mastering/recording the results here represent a very high value for dollar proposition with pretty inexpensive streaming/digital within a relatively good system.