Richard, normally, I am not an early adapter to new stuff like the HAPZ1. Your plan to wait is a reasonable one. For me, this was a bit of a retirement present to myself. There were some hooks that got me. The DSD engine was huge. The value proposition, what you get for 2K, is just insane. Some have said the HAPZ1 is a loss leader for Sony. Dan Wright's endorsement of the sound quality of the stock unit, and his enthusiasm for developing a mod, was the final straw. As good as the stock unit is, for him to say that his mod takes the HAPZ1 to reference quality, was something I just could not say no to. For me, the sound quality itself is sufficient to warrant this purchase.
As for retirement, I recommend it highly. I loved my job, loved the people I worked with, and the money was great. I expected to work another 2-3 years, but I got an offer for a voluntary exit plan that was too good to ignore. That extra time is worth a lot. My wife and I will relocate to eastern TN so that I can hike in the smokies on a daily basis. My passion for hiking is on a par with my passion for music, so this move is a dream of long standing about to come to fruition. This is a happy time for me. |
First of all, I liked the trade down with Buffalo to pick up the CB. This guy paired with Joe Hayden (keep wanting to type Haydn) is going to look pretty good. On Manziel, it is pretty tough for a 5'11" QB to see the field. I am dubious about this pick. There is a reason he slid to 22. What I'm hearing is that the Browns wanted the WR the Saints got.
Hoyer looked pretty good for 3 games last year until he tore his ACL. I might have preferred the Browns pass on QB until next year. |
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Browsfan...you guys selected Manziel. What do you think about that?
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A short follow up on last nights listening session. Tonight I gave a quick 2nd listen to the Shostakovich 10 with both the HAPZ1 and the MW 5400. The fairly consistent preference I have had for reproduction of strings via the MW 5400 is primarily due to the presence of a very small amount of grain in the HAPZ1 compared to the MW 5400. I first noted that in my first comparison session above, where I much preferred the MW 5400 on the Brahms cello sonatas. I also heard fairly consistently better depth in the image tonight through the HAPZ1. I had had some clues on this earlier, but I've now been through the Shostakovich 10 enough times it was pretty easy to pick out tonight.
After another listen to the Shostakovich 10 with both sources, I rotated in the Magnapan 3.7Rs. This did not fundamentally change my take on the two sources, but this was already hard to call with the more revealing Coincident Triumph Extremes. I'm done listening for tonight, since I must shortly again suffer through another Browns draft.
Tomorrow I hope to visit music from the 1st and 2nd listening sessions through the Maggies. |
I like your perspective about being reitred and having the time to play with this, Bf. I am about 10 years from that Happy Day myself, and frankly Computer Audio drives me up a wall because of the time investment required. I am trying to downsize, however, and this is why I keep trying.
I think I will stick to my imperfect computer set up for now and give Sony a few years to perfect this and add a bigger HD. Hopefully they don't get bored with the format and ditch it completely, as they have in SACD, Beta VHS, Mini Disc, ... |
Installment 3 of the stock HAPZ1 vs MW5400 comparison.
Tonight's music selection:
1) Shostakovich 10 Kitajenko/Gurzenich-Orchester Koln
I listened to the music from the beginning through about 5 minutes of the 3rd movement, first with the HAPZ1, then with the MW5400, then back to the HAPZ1 to confirm my initial impression. The music was thoroughly enjoyable through both machines. The HAPZ1 continued to exhibit its previously noted strengths. Fast attacks, articulate, detailed-- I also noted that the initial edge the MW 5400 had on dynamics has disappeared. If anything, it is now the HAPZ1 with superior dynamics. I also noted that the HAPZ1 was a little stronger (and faster) in the bass--keep in mind I'm talking 45-50Hz here (monitors). I will give this more attention when I rotate the Maggies in, but even so, we are only talking 37 Hz. The MW5400 continued to shine with respect to smooth silky, sweet strings. I also noted much more of that wonderful fruity woodwind sound from the 5400. It's the tube magic with respect to upper harmonics at work here, I suspect. This is important, because it really is so much of what draws many of us into the music. I do hope the ModWright HAPZ1 modification imparts this tube magic to the machine. Even so, I preferred the HAPZ1 by a razor thin margin.
2) Bach, Sonatas for violin and harpsichord #2. I chose this disk, because in contrast to so many harpsichord recordings, it does not sound like "Two skeletons copulating on a tin roof." The HAPZ1 brought a little more to the harpsichord, ironically, based on superior upper harmonics. Go figure. I might have preferred Ehnes' violin via the MW 5400, but again this was a tough call. Probably a toss up here overall.
So, based on what I have heard so far, if I had 2K to spend, and had my choice between a used MW 5400 and a new stock HAPZ1, which one would I choose? Sophie's choice! Don't make me choose. I'm going to have to think about this for a while.
Hopefully, I will have time to revisit some of this music with the Maggies in and the Coincidents out. I do really want to see if that fundamentally changes my take on these two machines. I'm betting not. |
Erm, Thanks, very useful information. I certainly intend to run the experiment you suggest with respect to a DSD download, but I'm not sure I will get this done before the Sony ships out next week.
There is a method to my madness. While DSD was one of the primary hooks for me, since I am a firm believer in DSD (though PCM done right is pretty good), I bought the HAPZ1 as an experiment. IF it had not passed muster on user friendliness, I would not have put the additional money into the ModWright upgrade. It HAD to convince me that I could get my existing library on the hard drive in reasonable fashion, or anything further was going to be a non-starter and it would have gone up for sale. While transfer of my existing library has not been flawless, it has gone acceptably, and I am sure as I learn more it will become much smoother.
I needed to make this determination rapidly so as not to loose the intro price on the ModWright upgrade.
The bulk of my classical library is built. Additional purchases, whether hard copy or downloads, will be a minor fraction of the total library. $26 x 1600 to replace what I already own ain't gonna happen post retirement! |
Uomoragno, Couple things. First of all, my problems with Mahler were in iTunes, not in the Sony. If iTunes doesn't get it right, the sony will import it as it exists in iTunes. I have had no instances of tracks getting screwed up in the sony as long as I stay away from wav files, provided that I have a good copy in iTunes. The sony can't reliably get wav right even if it is right in iTunes.
I think your take on why Mahler seems to be a challenge for iTunes has some merit. ITunes is totally screwed up witb how they list album titles and artists. They don't even have a single convention with respect to syntax.
That aside, the playlist function in the sony can be a way to straighten out a botched transfer, where tracks are screwed up or placed in different albums. You can create a playlist that contains all of the tracks in their correct order, even if in the album view they are all screwed up. Long term, I expect the playlist function to be my primary organizer. What I think I will do is make a playlist of my favorite versions of the Mahler symphonies, and bypass the album menu altogether.
With respect to other works, I will create separate playlists for the Belcea Quartets LvB cycle, and another playlist for the Tokyo Quartets LvB cycle.
I fear I may not live long enough to see one of these digitizing efforts work perfectly with classical. Sad, because I think about a half a dozen of us working together for 8 hours could figure it out.
I think most of use will put up with a little frustration, provided the net benefit is there. For me, it certainly is. I am recently retired, so my tolerance for things that chew up my time has increased substantially over the last month. As I have played with the sony for the last month, I find myself becoming less of an evaluator and more of an advocate. This piece sounds too good to ignore, imho. However, let me be clear. This is never going to be as easy and foolproof as slapping a cd in a player. Had I bought this prior to my retirement, I may have been one po'ed dude the first week. It is reasonably user friendly, but there is going to be a time investment. As the product continues to sell, I expect to see a robust users group develop that shares best practices. That will most certainly be a valuable resource for new buyers to leverage. |
I hate to keep poking in here but it pains me to see others feel the same frustration I have had when tying to digitize classical. Hence my initial involvement in this post, I wanted to know if the Sony was up to the challenge. I have found that error is quite common, especially ripping Mahler, that some media centers will have a melt down. Here is why in IMHO: Especially with Mahler or even some of Vaughn Williams when there is a soloist or Choir singing along with the symphony orchestra. If the rip is not specific to who is the "artist" and who is the "performer", Title or they are interchanged in the track list itunes or windows media will either split the album in half or not take it at all - I would guess the reason why tranfers to the HAP are sometimes scrabled is because gracenote is guessing at what, who, when, and where or it is inconsistent. This is common when moving files to a smart phone or Ipod it is the biggest pain in the rear. Ill bet you if you look close in your ITunes its there somewhere but not under Mahler check the names of the soloist or even the conductor. When riping my Tallis scholars CDs I could not find them then I realized I found that all of a sudden I had 19 new CD's under Thomas Tallis and 10 by Peter Philips the conductor not the composer. Odd thing was I only riped 14 CDs. A close look showed that the automatic track listing of both windows and iTunes split them because different tracks listed different artists. It got worse when I moved them to a mobile device. That was a while ago and may not be a problem anymore - especially because the Tallis Scholars are somewhat well known and their metadata is more readily available. But many obscure disks are difficult to deal with. Don't even get me started on boxed sets |
Rownsfan, in response to your inquiry on Audirvana, Pure Music, Amarra etc., these are designed to replace the iTunes playback engine, while using the iTunes as a library for management importing/exporting. They do improve the overall sound as compared to iTunes and most importantly provide seamless playback on red book and hi-rez without having to change the playback in midi.
However, I do believe that since the HAPZ1 uses it's own internal engine it makes the above engines not necessary nor possible.
Thank you for you detailed journey with the Sony. As a result of your findings and that on other forums, I just made a deposit on the unit and should have it by the end of the month.
I'm not a computer guy, and have tried the dedicated Mac mini route. After many crashes, library's being lost on Apple upgrades, a fried internal drive as a result of trying to download Maverick, The HAP is for me. This will eliminate the mini, usb cable, MF 192 interface, Amarra and external DAC. I'm looking forward to be able to relax, forget about the latest and greatest and just enjoy the music. I will follow you music recommendations as I need to built up my classical collection.
If I may make a suggestion; that prior to sending your unit to be upgraded, download a DSD file that you own on SACD and compare the two. As DSD is what is behind SACD, this might be a better comparison than SACD to a Flac file. |
Richard, It appears that iTunes has it in for Mahler 3. I can't get iTunes to find any of my Mahler 3 recordings! One of them wouldn't even transfer into iTunes properly. I completely agree with respect to iTunes. I am still in the exploratory phase on all of this, so iTunes is OK for now, but I am certainly going to be looking for something else as soon as I have a little time.
In an earlier post, I asked a question about some of the programs that are not free, e.g., audirvana, with respect to use with the HAPZ1. I didn't get any responses. However, it seems to me that the cost is fairly insignificant if the organization and functionality is good. There is a 15 day free trial, so once my unit comes back from ModWright, I may give this a try. |
I completely second your comments, Uomorango, and I appreciate your responses, Brownsfan.
I recently digitalized my James Levine/Chicago SO and my freaking itunes an't find it? It doesn't help that I've digitalized 3 other Mahler 3s in the interim.
I wound up purchasing the boxed set of Levine/Mahler, at basically the price of 1 CD, just to reobtain this recording. It makes me very hesitant to rely on itunes to completely digitalize my 3000+ CDS. |
Guys, I am pretty sure the HAPZ1 imports cover art directly from Gracenotes, so that what the computer software (iTunes etc) does on cover art is irrelevant. However, the album title and track information does import from the computer program, so you can edit this information to your hearts content. However, this may interfere with the ability of the HAPZ1 to assign the proper cover art.
Those computer programs that use Gracenote as the source of cover art should correlate better with the HAPZ1 than does iTunes, which I think utilizes Gracenote indirectly through the iTunes store. This means that if a work is not available in the iTunes store, it won't show up in your iTunes software, but it may very well show up in the HAPZ1 file imported from iTunes. No doubt, this is all clear as mud. |
Bmoura - Thanks so much, I'll check it out!!
Brownsfan thanks so much for your review, I love Shosty's 13th and your references I could relate to.
I have one more offering on metadata and cover art: I've now been using db poweramp software (there is a Mac equivalent that is free) and I have found that in the software you can assign the metadata and cover art before/while you rip it and if you use FLAC, ALAC or AIFF, it sticks to what you transfer it to; And if you do it right iTunes takes it as the metadata is imbedded in the file. If ITunes or windows has to guess, it may guess wrong which can destroy organization. The ripping software has access to many databases that allow you to choose/edit the correct cover art and edit track listings, genera, artist, ect., as well before you rip and make it permanent. For example as a fan of Shostakovich I purchased the Haitik RCO London/Decca recordings in the early 80s as they came out. Decca, then what became Universal, re released those with different cover art and track listings, to make it worse, part of that recording cycle included the LSO not the RCO, It can be a mess trying to sort through that but the database presented to me while ripping with the ripping software had all the correct cover art and track listings of the original releases. They even have access to all the old Nimbus stuff - Whaaaat?
Its all in the Rip. Rip it once, rip it right. And rip it with a plan in mind as to how you want to use and access your collection. Mind you I'm sure I will run into a snag here and there, such is the plight of a classical music fan ripping CDs
ITunes/windows media a great way to "see" your collection but as far as organization they stink pure and simple when it comes to classical. I would pay good money for a very complete and thoughtful software product that can organize and stream classical music correctly.
Have fun! |
Richard, at a high level, I have been very happy with the HAPZ1 based on its sonic merits. Its operation is not perfect for our needs, but it is pretty good in most ways and excellent in others. In my opinion, the sonic merits of the stock HAPZ1 justifies any logistical frustrations associated with file transfer.
While I do work hard to keep my cd collection organized, I have some recordings that are MIA. Once a disk is misfiled in my racks, it is a real chore looking through 1500-2000 cds to find it. I've had a Mahler 1 missing for 6 months. The HAPZ1 makes it extremely easy to organize even a very large collection in such a way as to make it extremely easy to find a given recording.
By "recognizing" I assume you mean properly associating album artwork with a particular recording. If that is your meaning, I would say that the sony is probably picking up about 70%. With a little work, my guess is that could go as high as 90%. What I am finding is that when I import the CD to iTunes, iTunes many times has a variety of possible titles for the same recording, one or none of which allows one to import the artwork into iTunes, This data comes from the iTunes store. When you change the title or artist to match the iTunes record associated with the artwork, this change imports into the sony, but the artwork does not always import. However, in many cases, one can do a search within the sony software that allows one to find the correct artwork. Still it is hit or miss, but the Sony database (Gracework) is much better than iTunes at assigning the correct artwork.
As an example, the Padmore/Lewis Winterrise has the correct artwork associated with it in iTunes, but this did not import into the sony, and instead the sony assigned another recording artwork (different tenor and pianist) to the recording. Searching through the database did not turn up the correct recording.
For me, this is more of an annoyance than a problem, since one can change the album title in iTunes to anything you want and this does import into the sony. This means it is no problem to associate an unambiguous title to the album. |
Brownsfan, i also listen almost excusively to Classical Music so I find your comparisons instructful. I own the SACD of the Kitajenko Babi Yar and I have been very happy with it through various SACD players.
I am curious how the software has been at recognizing the recordings. a few years ago I tried an Olive product and gave up after it's recognition system could only identify 2 out of 15 discs that I fed it. As you know identifying Classical discs, that may have only sold a few thousand copies 25 years ago, is more of a challange for software programs such as itunes that are geared for more mass entertainment. |
Lowrider, exactly. While I am not done with my comparison yet, I think it is safe to say the stock HAPZ1 is very good. Having detailed notes on particular pieces of music and having the MW Sony to use as the control for a comparison of the MW HAPZ1 should provide a very good measure of the order of magnitude of the improvement provided by the modification.
I am on the waiting list for the modification. I will ship my HAPZ1 out on May 15th, with the mod scheduled for after the Munich show. By then Dan will have had time to evaluate the Bybee rails. |
There were a few instances where the MW5400 shone. This was mostly in reproduction of solo violin or massed violins. Lovely, silky smooth. This will be interesting to compare with the Modwright HAPZ1. It can only get better one would hope. |
One more installment of the HAPZ1/MW5400 comparison.
Shostakovich, Symphony 13, "Babi Yar" Kitajenko, Gurzennich Orchester Koln. SACD Capriccio. This proved to be an outstanding choice for the comparison. The ALAC file through the HAPZ1 exhibited superior articulation of the Russian. (Not that I could do anything with this, since I don't understand a word of Russian). I also noticed better reproduction of the upper harmonics in the brass. The tuba had more bite. In fact, all of the brass had more of that wonderful brassy bite that one hears live in a hall with good acoustics. This more faithful reproduction of upper harmonics was also evident in the low string opening of the 3rd movement. There were a few instances where the MW5400 shone. This was mostly in reproduction of solo violin or massed violins. Lovely, silky smooth. But really, I thought the HAPZ1 bettered the MW5400 by a fair margin on this music. |
Uomoragno, you need to visit some of the download sites with classical music downloads when it comes to music for the HAP-Z1.
Some interesting choices there, including the first ever DSD releases by Cobra Records on NativeDSD.Com.
Apparently those 10 albums were recorded on the Sony Sonoma DSD Workstation years ago but only available as Stereo CD discs until now when we get Multichannel and Stereo DSD via downloads. |
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Brownsfan, excellent review, thank you.
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I’m about 2 weeks in on the HAPZ1 now. It’s had a decent burn in, so I thought it was time to do some serious A/B with my ModWright Sony 5400, hereafter to be referred to as MW 5400. For this comparison, I pulled everything out of the rack, then turned the backs of the sources forward to facilitate rapidly swithching the ICs. The HAPZ1 was powered through a VooDoo Vector Dragon from my Audio Magic MiniRef, while I used an MAC digital power cord for the MW 5400 per se (my normal Audience e wouldn’t reach with everything pulled out of the rack) and a VH Audio AirSine for the MW PS 9.9 power supply. This had a new production Gold Lion 5AR4 rectifier, which I prefer even to the old mullard GZ34 rectifier. For the first installment of this A/B, my system was configured as follows: Each source fed my Coincident Statement Line Stage preamp via a 2M VH audio spectrum AG IC. VH audio Symmetry (Ag) balanced IC (3M) fed my Cary 500.1 MBs, which drove Coincident Triumph Extreme MK II monitors through Audio Magic Liquid Air speaker cables. I chose the Coincident monitors over my Magnepan 3.7Rs for the first part of this comparison because they are wonderfully (or brutally) revealing of upstream components. They are fast, coherent, articulate and have great timbral accuracy. I chose 3 CDs for tonight’s comparison. All music files were ALAC prepared using iTunes. Everything was powered up and sat idle for about 2 hours, then was used for background music for another 2 hours prior to serious listening.
Shostakovich string quartet #7, Pacifica Quartet. This is a 24 bit PCM recording on Cedile Records. I listened to the entire quartet twice using the HAPZ1 and once using the MW 5400. The HAPZ1 exhibited better spacial localization and separation of the 4 instruments. There was more air and hall ambience, and the cello was reproduced with more bite and faster attacks. Pizzicato was sharper and faster. The MW 5400 presented with a somewhat darker, richer tonality, and rendered the cello a bit more “wooley” sounding. I much preferred the HAPZ1 with this music.
Brahms, Cello sonatas Op 36 and Op 120 #1. Wispelwey (1760 Guad) and Lazic, Steinway D. (Channel Classics SACD). The MW 5400 was a runaway winner with this music. A bit of grain present in the HAPZ1 was gone, and the 5400 had a wonderful, warm, analog sound that was just gorgeous. The 5400 had less air, and attacks were not as fast, but this was not missed at all. The 5400 was just more musical. Both sources were on a par, with the piano centered and the cello just to the left of center. This is a very good recording without excessive hall ambience.
Strauss, Vier Letzte Lieder, Luisi/Harteros/Dresden State Orchestra, Sony SACD. I chose this work because I also have a redbook copy of this recording. In the event that I preferred the MW 5400, I wanted to be able to compare the redbook CD on the MW 5400 to the HAPZ1 Alac file. Again, the MW 5400 gave a smooth, warm, analog sounding account. I noticed that the German was a little tough to pick out. I noted the brief horn solo in “September” as being particularly pretty, as was the violin solo in “Beim Schlaffengehen.” The HAPZ1 did something right here that I could not quite put my finger on. The German was marginally easier to pick out. Neither the horn nor the violin solo were as pretty through the HAPZ1, yet it all came together better somehow through the HAPZ1.
Tomorrow night I’m going to run through the same drill with another 3-4 CDs. I also want to run a similar evaluation using the Magnepan 3.7R’s. I’d like to defer drawing any firm conclusions until I’m done with that comparison also, just to see if any of tonight’s observations would go differently with a change of speakers. |
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I'm not sure about your corrupted transfer. However, you can copy the files to Z1Es directly without using the Sony tool, follow by a re-scan to rebuild the database. |
Days 10 and 11.
Joe, we are not quite alone, but you can get us all together in one room and still have room for an angel choir singing "Lobet den Herrn."
Now then, having been reminded that my life (and wife) will not permit me full time devotion to this project, I have gone light the last couple of days. I am still experimenting a bit with file types, but for the time being, I am ok with ALAC for the majority of my transfers. They really are quite good in the substantial majority of cases.
There are a few transfers I have made where I was not quite satisfied with the sound. I took Erikminer's advice and transferred in aiff 3 CD's, where the ALAC file was not up to par. Of those three, 2 did not transfer at all (which is far better than a corrupted transfer), while one transferred perfectly. If one changes the cd title in I tunes before the transfer ( I added aiff to the title), the new title transfers and it is easy to distinguish between the 2 in the HAPZ1 menu. The one that did transfer (metadata and all) exhibited a subtle but important improvement over both the ALAC and the original cd as played back through my modwright sony 5400.
For the time being, my best practice is to try Alac first, followed by aiff, followed (reluctantly, and only if it is an important recording) by wav. I have been looking into XLD as suggested by lowrider, but I haven't tried it yet. Reviews appear to be mixed on this software.
Again exposing my ignorance here, I wonder about one of the programs like audirvana? By the time I get done with the ModWright mods, I'm going to be in 4-5K on this thing, so I'm not sure it makes sense to get cheap on $80 worth of software. |
Amen! To Almarg's post.
"I've got some ideas about using playlists to sort out the Bach cantatas by liturgical Sunday."
I have to say you are totally speaking my language. I thought I was the only one in the world that said things like that.
Awesome! I'm not alone
All the best to you Brownsfan!
Joe |
DAY 9 All the wav corruption has been purged, ALAC flawless today.
Al, thanks much for your kind words. I will take a look at the discussion you linked shortly. I had a couple frustrating days trying to do just exactly what you indicated should be done. I got a bit of a tease with a relatively subtle, but important, difference in a couple of tracks recorded in wav. It was never my intention to make too much of that limited sample, but with respect to the HAPZ1, the enormous frustration associated with about a 50% failure rate on wav transfers made any comparison of wav and ALAC moot. Today I uploaded a bunch of Beethoven and Schubert using ALAC. The transfers went flawlessly, and they sound wonderful, although in one case I thought the sound was a bit rougher than the typical ultra smooth sound from the HAPZ1. I'm going to give the suggestion from Lowrider and Uomoragno a try, and see what an uncompressed flac sounds like on that particular recording. It is, as you said, it is up to the ears to be the only arbiter.
Despite 2 rather frustrating days, I think the HAPZ1 is a fine piece. The frustration was after all, primarily self imposed. I am virtually certain the HAPZ1 is going to be my primary source, especially if the level of improvement after the ModWright treatment is anywhere close to what I expect. While comparisons with my beloved Modwright Sony 5400 have not yet been extensive, I think the only clear advantage of the 5400 is with respect to dynamics.
I've got the HDD control software up and running on my tablet. I haven't tried creating any play lists yet. Now that the track sequence and album art issues are for the most part straightened out, I can continue to use the album field to select music for a while. I've got some ideas about using playlists to sort out the Bach cantatas by liturgical Sunday. |
Brownsfan, great job recounting all of this experience, which will undoubtedly prove invaluable to many others in the future. You might find this discussion of sonic differences between various lossless formats to be of interest. **NOT** because I think it has applicability to the HAP-Z1ES, but to make two points: 1)My takeaway from that thread, and from everything else I have seen on the subject, is that no explanation of why wav or any other format may provide superior sonic results in any given setup has been conclusively established. 2)Given that, and given the fact that the design approaches used in the Sony unit appear to be fundamentally different than those used in all or nearly all other computer-based and music player-based setups, I see no reason whatsoever to assume that previously reported format comparisons have any applicability to the HAP-Z1ES. So as you appear to be doing, and as I would have expected you in particular to do, I would suggest approaching your comparisons with a completely open mind, and as the traditional audiophile cliche goes, "trust your ears." Best regards, -- Al |
Brownsfan..Uomo is right about flac. The XLD free download for mac handles flac and all others. Its a ripping sofware way more versatile than itunes. I think its advantage is handling metadeta. |
Brownsfan, you are a brave man for stepping out, up or into this new player. My tolerance for any "computing" issues is less than zero and find that hardware/software compatibility problems just about push me over the edge. Somehow I find tweaking speaker placement more satisfying than sorting out sound file issues....just saying. Good luck and keep us posted on your adventure! |
Uomoragno, It would take a bit of doing to figure out how to run flac with my iMac/ITunes set up. Once I get through this initial tsunami of new technology, I will give that a try and see what it sounds like.
Smargo, I've followed the modwright threads, but not the red wine audio threads. I will take a look and see what else might be there.
Today I'm going to try to load a Beethoven cycle, one at a time, using Alac, and see how the files transfer and what gives with the metadata. If I have issues with this , I will give Sony a call. If I don't I may give them a cll anyway just to see if they have any tips on wav files.
If it has to be Alac, so be it. It does sound really good, |
All my ingenious fixes proceeded to screw things up worse than before. It has been a frustrating couple of days, my friends. However, one of my bosses once said, " I give all the hard stuff to Bill." Another one characterized my research style as relentless. Another one characterized me as like a tank. It looks like you are stuck in the trenches, then all of a sudden you take off and raise all kinds of ****. We will see what tomorrow brings. |
With a little bit of research I learned that FLAC has metadata imbedded in the file (ALAC as well)so it sticks to whatever you transfer it to. WAV does not so it will not transfer correctly. There is a theory floating around out there that states that the reason WAV sounds better than FLAC, is that the processor has to "unfold" or "unpack" a FLAC file as it is a compressed, lossless format to save space on a hard drive. WAV is only lossless. PCM bit for bit. I found that with DBpoweramp ripping software you can have your FLAC and stream it too without file compression. You can actually choose your level of compression - from a lot to nothing at all - of course your files will be bigger but they are supposedly better sounding. I have no idea if it sounds as good as WAV, some literature says it does - just something to try. Good luck |
AIFF and WAV are the preferred formats in pro-audio for exporting files; uncompressed and universally accepted. But of course, they're not concerned with transferring the artwork. |
Mitch, I'm working on something that may be a fix for the track order getting screwed up. There is a way to link "songs" together in iTunes so they always play in the same order even if you do a shuffle play. I also think I may have figured out how to address some of the artwork problems. I'm going to spend some time on this.
Erik, thanks for the suggestion. I'm new to all of this, so I knew nothing about aiff files. I will give that a try and see how it sounds. |
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Brownsfan, I'm a little bummed about the news regarding wav files. If wav is the perceptively superior sounding file type, it seems the goal would be to have have wav files on the hard drive for optimal sound. There must be someone somewhere with a solution to moving wav files without corruption.
Thanks again for being a trailblazer with this unit. Your info is invaluable and we appreciate it. I look forward to your continued updates. You might want to forward your chronicle to Sony when you are done with your assessment. I'm sure they'd appreciate the feedback and may consider addressing some of the challenges you face with the unit.
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Why not use Aiff files? Better metadata support.. Or you could use Uncompressed Flac |
brownsfan - there is a lot of info at http://www.audiocircle.com/
there is about 4 or 5 different threads concerning the sony
not sure if you saw them |
Day 7 & 8.
More than a little frustration with wav files. Transfer of wav files is probably an exception rather than rule proposition. Sadly, transfer of the bulk of one’s library in wav is probably not a viable plan.
Having determined that at least in one case, a wav file sounded perceptibly superior to its ALAC equivalent, I was faced with a conundrum of sorts. If wav files are consistently superior, and one can purchase for download only flac and ALAC files, would one not be better off buying a cd, and transferring a wav copy? Is the file size of wav going to make it impractical to copy the bulk of one’s library in wav? As alluded to in Uomoragno’s post above, these questions were rendered moot by the difficulty I experienced in transferring about 6-8 CDs in wav to the Sony. While the wav copies were successfully created in iTunes, less than half of these albums transferred to the Sony correctly. In most cases, the metadata did not transfer, which one could probably live with. However, about half of the “albums” were seriously corrupted. As an example, the 3rd movement of the 3rd quartet from the Takacs Bartok cycle was extracted out of the “album”, and the sony created a separate “album” of this movement. Many cds transferred in similar but with even more extreme corruption. Sadly, I am forced to conclude we should not expect that transferring wav files will be practical. In actual fact, file size might well make this impossible anyway, but it would be nice to have that option for a few very special works. Alac appears to be robust with respect to music and metadata transfer.
I should mention that one cd would not properly copy into iTunes as either Alac or wav. So this is an example where the music is going to require playback through a cd player. The CD is a hybrid SACD/red book. Don’t know just yet if this is going to continue to be an issue, but it bears watching.
I bought a tablet last night and successfully transferred the HDD Audio remote app to the tablet. I will spend some time over the next few days evaluating what this app brings to the party.
It is fortunate that my purchase of the HAPZ1 coincided with my retirement. This is not a plug and play proposition. It does require time and learning. On the other hand, we have all spent a good bit more time on issues like getting speaker placement dialed in, so its not like this investment is out of proportion to the return. |
Brownsfan Thanks for your kind response; you answered my question perfectly. Thanks for your time and enjoy your new toy. I will be watching for more of your very informative posts
Joe |
Uomoragno, your concern about difficulties with wav files is well founded. I am having a time with wav files getting them transferred properly, and it isn't just the artwork. Too bad, because they sound beautiful. More detail on that later. The user interface with the Sony per se is not very sophisticated, but it is my understanding that using a smart phone or tablet you can do much more in terms of organization. I bought a tablet this evening, so I will probably spend my spare time over the next few days trying to figure out how to get things organized. You can create playlists, which may be of more use to us classical lovers than it might seem at first. Don't know for sure yet. but I think I could create a playlist containing, for instance, the Beethoven Quartet's Shostakovich cycle, and another playlist containing the Fitzwilliam or Pacifica cycles. For individual recordings not part of a cycle, one could either access them through the albums menu or yet another generic playlists containing, for instance, Bruckner symphonies. I'm not sure, but I think each playlist can hold up to 100 files. If so, this could be extremely useful. |
Tim, I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing.
The Stereophile review of the Sony has a very apt description of the product, it's a very advanced iPod. It plays back music that has been collected on a separate computer. My earlier comment concerned how to get music files onto that separate computer. If you have CDs, as opposed to downloads, the preferred method is to have software to rip the data to your hard drive via a computer attached optical drive. Your post seem to say that CD player into the computer is better. From the print reviews and owner comments I've read the Sony software is required to transfer the audio files from the separate computer to the Sony. |
Great review Brownsfan! I am very excited as you appear to be a classical fan. I am too, with many old or out of print classical recordings on CD. My question to you would be one of metadata. I understand that WAV files do not carry metadata as opposed to FLAC and ALAC that does, and transfer can be marginal at best. Sometimes you rip Bach violin sonatas and the metadata reads something completely different on cover art and track listing - especially on old out of print recordings. Does the Sony do well in that regard? does it get cover art and track listings OK on WAV? How about classical organization? Most software is horrible with organizing classical. Again thanks for your report, much appreciated |
Jafant, I also am eager to get this done. I must say, I haven't really heard any significant change in audio quality after the first 10 hours or so, but I would like to get a few more hours on the HAPZ1 before getting serious about an a/b with the 5400. Also, I'm going to need to settle more or less once and for all on a file type for the comparison. |
And when using the optical drive, the computer ripping software uses error correction while reading the disk. |
Excellent report Brownsfan! I want to hear, I mean, read about your comparison w/ the HAPZ1 and the 5400 ES. Keep us posted as you burn-in this server. |
Tim- w/o putting words into Onhwy61's mouth, I think he is referring to ripping from a CDP vs.the optical drive in a computer. |
Onhwy61, I'm not about to dispute your claims, but I've always heard sonic improvements by burning direct from a CD, although it's definitely not the easiest way. Can you explain why there would be an improvement by transferring through the Sony software .
Thanks Tim |
Using a CD player to transfer music to a hard drive is not the best way, it is one the worst ways to rip CDs. If your music is already on a computer the Sony transfer software would be perfect. |
TMSorosk, There is no way to directly connect a CD player to the HAPZ1. However, if you already have all of your CDs on your iMac, and if you have a home network established, it will be very simple to download your music to the HAPZ1 either wirelessly, or wired via a one time ethernet connection. If you don't have a home network, I'm not sure how this would work. You should probably call sony tech support for an answer on exactly how to do that. |
