I’m looking at receivers under 3-4K. I don’t need more than 7.2, and am about 15 years out of date. There seems to be more bells and whistles, but what is the sound quality like now days?
Yes I totally agree with you. And the OP wants an AV receiver with bells n whistles and I think the Arcam has them plus good sound and tonality for both music and HT (movies).
The NAD and Cambridge Audio make great sounding receivers but lack features or bells n whistles. The Rotel RAP-1580 amplified processor, which is basically an AV receiver minus AM/FM tuner or radio, sounded spectacular too especially for music but the Rotel lacks bells n whistles and lacks an automatic room correction but instead Rotel provides manual PEQ which requires proper tools and equipments and knowledge to implement it properly.
When it comes to features and bells n whistles I would say the Rotel RAP-1580 is the most barebone in comparison to all other AV receivers. But the Rotel RAP-1580 sounded spectacular and is built like a tank. that thing weighs around 54 pounds. has huge oversized main toroidal transformer power supply with generous power supply regulator and capacitors. Its amplifier section runs in class AB, unlike Rotel's lower end AV receiver, eg RSX-something, which amp section runs in class D. The RAP-1580 is Rotel's flagship AV receiver and retails for $3800. Rotel, like the NAD, Cambridge, Arcam, Audio Control, focus on sound quality, unlike those Japanese mass produced AV manufacturers eg Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo/Integra, Pioneer Elite, Sony which focus on features and bells n whistles but sound quality is compromised.
However, I've never compared the Rotel RAP-1580 with the NAD, Cambridge, Arcam, Audio Control & Anthem in the same setup and system. For basic sound quality alone and amplifier section IMO the Rotel RAP-1580 is on par with the NAD's flagship, Cambridge's flagship, Arcam AVR 850 & AVR 550. But I think the Anthem's ARC2 and Dirac Live onboard the Arcam & Audio Control are superior room correction compared to Rotel's manual PEQ (Parametrix EQ).
But I've heard one negative thing about all Rotel AV gears both AV receivers & AV pre pros. Rotel's HDMI switchings are buggy and always have issues. So I always told people to stay away from buying Rotel AV receivers and processors. They sound great but their HDMI boards are failing all the time and constantly have software bugs and glitches. Rotel has always been aware of the issues but has done nothing to fix it, which I think is totally unacceptable.
However, Rotel makes very good sounding stereo gears and amplifiers (class AB) for the money. Their RMB-1585 five-channel power amp is spectacular especially for the money. It's massive built like a tank and weighs in around 80 pounds. And it sounded and perform very good esp for the money. It retails for $3k. Sounded very musical, highly dynamic, very rich and very quiet has really low noise floor. Its tonality is warm with rich midrange bloom. Has plenty unlimited reserve of clean power to be able to drive just about any difficult speakers. For $3k it is a total bargain.
Caphill we are dealers for both Arcam and Audiocontrol which is an even better pro version of the Arcam products and we couldn't agree with you more.
The Arcam's have been getting rave reviews for years because they sound better and although some bells and whistles are nice, such as streaming music and Dirac or ARC the most important thing is the way a unit sounds.
The Arcam sound smooth, with great soundstaging, and wonderful tonality.
I would get the Arcam AVR550 currently retails for around $3k or $3500 brand new. I has bells and whistles or features you need. It has built-in Spotify, Tidal, Pandora apps. Got Wi-Fi, Airplay & Bluetooth. Equipped with Dirac Live auto room EQ or room correction which is better than the Audyssey in the Marantz. It is DLNA equipped. And it will sound better than the Marantz SR8012 or any Japanese mass produced AV manufacturers. The Arcam AVR850 retails for about the same price as the Marantz SR8012. The SR8012 retails for $3k.
Listened to a Marantz SR8012 today. It was set up as 5.1, and it sounded pretty good. I think it or the SR 7012 will do everything I want. Another one to add to the list.
The Amazon and Roku sticks and Chromecast can go direct into your receiver. I'm not sure what capabilities one can control via Apple TV into a receiver, but it can be connected to a receiver.
The issue hinges more on where your files are / what device you are storing your music on. If it can be accessed via your local network (or cast from your phone) then using one of these devices will allow for a much wider feature and control set than a WiFi dongle.
curiousjim, a lot of the newer avrs have wifi and bluetooth built in--if it doesn't you can add a google chromecast audio ($25), which is extremely simple and works very well
’’’For example, a WiFi adaptor may be unnecessary if you choose to use a Roku, Amazon, Google or Apple device with your TV."
Not what I’m talking about. I have the tv. I’m wanting to stream my personal collection of music to another system. That was the reason I asked about a wifi adapter. You can Bluetooth from a phone or computer to a newer receiver. I want to do the same using my wifi. Better quality and distance.
@curiousjim I strongly encourage you to spend time bringing yourself up to date with the 'State of the State' of HT. There are ample online sites to bring you up to date, and with minimal time investment. There are also numerous reviews of all of the receivers being discussed in this thread and those write-ups should give you a good feel for the pros and cons of each unit.
Regarding your previous question(s):
For example, a WiFi adaptor may be unnecessary if you choose to use a Roku, Amazon, Google or Apple device with your TV.
For example, if you have a current TV then you can use the Apps within to accomplish what you are looking for.
For example, most of the current TVs have WiFi built in.
Regarding sound quality:
For me, the soundtrack is the soul and life blood of a movie. With poorer renditions a movie is not nearly as emotionally engaging (sadness, anger, violence, love, etc. etc. require the music to convey the same and to pull at your heart strings).
If a component were more musically competent and emotionally engaging and 'musical' that would be the one I would recommend, without hesitation.
The power ratings (for mainstream receivers) are typically NOT for all channels driven and some companies are much more conservative and accurate with their power ratings.
There are valid and very good reasons why seasoned HT enthusiasts choose higher end / smaller manufacturers over the mass market brands.
Since you seem to hold on to your components, I advise you choose quality, even if it costs more, over the long run.
Receivers also lose value quickly, which makes the following option a very good one: step up to a highly regarded, higher end unit that is a couple of years old.
I did look at the Anthem MRX 1120. And I thought it was more than I needed. I also looked at the MRX 720, and it's still on my list. My thought was to start with the Yammy, if I didn't like it, I would return it and work my my way through a few different brands and models. With a goal of going wireless, and that's going to be even more fun.
In that range I would at least look at the Anthem. I recently purchased the AVM60 and am thrilled with it. Built in ability to stream, room correction, etc. I have a 7.1.4 set up. Never thought I would add the additional channels for ATMOS but am so glad I did - both music and movies. Remainder of system is 10 yr old Rotel amplification and B&W speakers all around. For my price range, I am very happy with it .
In answering your queston, it's my understanding that the soundtrack Netflix, Amazon and DVD's are CD quality at best and MP3 quality for most. ( If I'm wrong, please educate me ) So as I said earlier, this system is going to be mostly for movies. I'm not putting together a audiophile system. No seperates, no DAC, no B & W 800 series speakers.
Thanks for the link you sent, the spec's look great, but I didn't see a way for me to go wireless. I already have a theater system, bringing me up to date with bells and whistles is what I was looking at.
i don't doubt that arcam/anthem are much better for critical music listening, but if you're avr is just for movies the difference between the mass-market fare may not be cost-effective for you. personally, i'd go to accessories4less, which has great prices on yamaha, pioneer elite, etc., and pick one of the higher models out--you'll save a couple grand.
whatever I buy will be for watching movies. Movies that are not known for the high sound quality.
Are you saying that the movies you watch don't have good sound quality? OR, because this is for movies, sound quality is not as much of a factor for you? Thanks.
What the heck pulled your chain? Your original reply said
" The Market can best be divided by the Japanese brands with every feature under the sun and having decent to good sound quality
vs.
American and European brands, Arcam, Audiocontrol, Primare, NAD, that are more about sound quality."
Nobody is disagreeing with you. And having said that, whatever I buy will be for watching movies. Movies that are not known for the high sound quality. As I said in my original post, everything I have is 15 years old. The speakers I'm currently using are 15 year old Klispch 2 way speakers that sound like crap on most music, but sounds pretty good watching Star Wars. I also said I was interested in bells and whistles. Upon looking around, I found that I didn't need to spend 4k to get what I wanted. Also, I can return whatever I buy if I don't like it!
BTW, Best Buy doesn't sell anything even close to what we've talking about.
Just to keep things real - I never said Arcam or Anthem or anything else wasn't good. The Arcam has its own unique sound and it is not my preference. I equated Class G to be similar to Class D in a sense because the higher power supply is "switched" on and off just like a Class D amp. The Arcam sound also has a very similar clean tone to Class D - which for me does not give a sense of life or realness - Conclusion is that it's lacking ultra high frequency response and "air".
I have not "demoed" or listened to Yamaha and others at Best Buy (which I agree is not the best place to listen). I have personal experience with Yamaha receivers and I like them, even though I would not buy one for myself.
Finally, there is a certain point of view that most dealers have which is to promote the gear that they sell. It's a commercial enterprise, so it is always in their best interest to buy something they have - regardless of their denials. Otherwise, they would commonly recommend something they do not sell.
Jim, hate to disagree with Auxinput, never heard a current crop of Japanese receivers that I would say are musical and I don’t know how Auxinput came to his conclusion, based on hearing them where and under what conditions at a Best Buy with their poor quality electronic switchers and the Yamaha units unless things have changed from a few years ago, have been losing market share for years and just recently are trying for a comeback with their new expensive 2 channel line..
We tested Nad, Arcam, Audiocontrol, Cambridge Audio, and Anthem under identical conditions hard wired to a single set of speakers and sharing the same digital source under volume matched criteria. In our shop you can actually see our four brands of surround products on the same shelf we are showing the Audiocontrol which is a better version of the Arcam and made in the same factory, the NAD, the Cambridge and the Anthem products.
Best sound by a country Mile Arcam/Audio Control these $3.4k-$4k receivers are incredibily musical, and come closest to real high end gear. The Arcam 550 is not a class G amplifier but a conventional one, the Class G amplifers are amazing sounding and combine the Class A sound with Class A/B efficiency, Class G is a dual rail concept which swithes from a Class A low voltage/wattage rail to a higher output one for peaks.
The fact that you are denigrating Arcam when everone in the industry lauds the Arcam as one of the best sounding receivers on the market either shows you are biased for some reason about Yamaha, which by the way very few dealers sell, and the expensive 2 channel products have been plagued with quality control issues, or you have not gotten a proper demo of the Arcam units. (Note that the $6,000 AVR 850 uses class G while the $3,400 AVR 550 uses conventional amplification.)
Second Best Tier: Cambridge Audio for sheer clarity and punch, Anthem for best in class room correction, The NAD’s new line of receivers were warmer and puncher without the same clarity that the Cambridge or Anthem had, a warm melodic sound fantastic feature set upgradable.
Third Class, We have tested Pioneer Elite and Denon compared to the others no contest.
The Cambride Audio CX 200/120 are amazing sounding for high performance theater and are total bargains, because Cambridge is closing them out probably to bring in a new model with Atmos.
The CX 120 was originally $2,000.00, now for $1199 the CX 200 was originally $3k close out price is $2k
So I talked with Buzz at Crutchfield. He agreed that the Yamaha RX-A1070 would be a good choice for me, then he mentioned that a model 1080 is coming out soon. He said the only difference would be Amazon Alexa. He also hinted that I should wait, saying the 1070 should be going on sale when the 1080 comes out. He wasn't quite sure when, but I can a bit.
So far the Yam RX -A1070 is number one on my list. Gonna have another talk with Crutchfield sometime this week. Still have some wifi questions, but the spec's look great.
Agreed. Don't limit yourself to a 5.1 receiver. They actually have much smaller power supplies and will perform less. It's the size of the main power supply / transformer that matters. example:
Yamaha 2070 - 9 channels - 37.5 lbs
Yamaha 1070 - 7 channels - 32.8 lbs
Anthem MRX 520 - 5 channels - 28.2 lbs
The Anthem is the best 5 channel. It might have better components internally, but it will not be able to compete in brute force power. The larger transformers and power supplies of the Yamahas will be able to provide stronger bass/midbass, even at lower volumes!
Also, none of these receivers will be able to match a dedicated 5-channel amplifier, which can get into the 60-90 lbs area.
Thanks for the answer. In the old days leaving a channel with out a load was a bad thing. And as I just said, I thinking more and more about sticking with a 5.1 setup.
Going to start over my search. BTW, I agree about the different sound from the different makers. Even within brands. I live over an hour from anywhere, so listening to anything that Best Buy doesn't have is hard! Even Best Buy is almost an hour away!
There more I think about it, I'll probably never go past 5.1. I'm going to start looking at just 5.1 receivers. I still want the wifi etc. Does that put a wrench in things? Almost everything seems to be 7.2 - 15.2. And I guarantee I'm not going 15.2!
@curiousjim - no, you do not need to put a load on them at all. In fact, putting a load on the unused channels will also put a load on the main power supply of the receiver. Just leave them disconnected.
Everyone has their opinions, but I found that the Yamaha line of receivers is the most natural sounding (no pun intended) - when compared to Sony, Onkyo, Integra, Anthem Arcam. Sony is very cold/bright sounding. The rest of the Japanese receivers are typical over-bright and too "solid state" sounding. Anthem is good, but I think it’s still a little too much on the bright side. Marantz is a bit too much on the warm/slow side. Arcam has it’s own sonic signature and many people like it. Arcam is definitely very refined, but to me it just does not sound as realistic as other receivers - mostly due to its Class G amplifier design.
Like phil9624 suggested, I would look at the upper lines if you can afford it. I recently had to buy a receiver for my mom and ended up getting the Yamaha RX-A2070. The two top models are 2070 and 3070. The 3070 was over $500 more and only weighed a couple extra pounds (not a huge difference in transformer size), so I settled on the 2070. Putting in a Furutech 10A fuse and upgrading power cord gave me very excellent results on this receiver.
So I just took a moment to check out the Yammy you mentioned. All looked good except one review about 4K being a problem. I will look into that issue more.
LOL, I'm using a Sony - DE445, a pair of Klispch RF3ii's and subwoofer from Cambridge Audio. As I said before, I'm at least 15 yyears out of date on all this. So far we bought the TV and the 4K Blueray this year. I'll check out the Yammy tommorow.
This system is going to be mostly for video. My TV is less than a year old so I can stream most apps already. (Don't need the Roku anymore). So the Sony X800 will handle most all of my other video needs, I think. The house I'm in for the next 3 years has Cat 4 and RF everywhere, even the kitchen. If need be I can feed Cat 6 or 7 most places. I have another room in the basement that has a mostly audio system. I probably will only be able to use 5.1 here, but want to be able to go 7.1 or 7.2 when I move again. And being able to stream my own music between systems would be cool!
All very good ideas, and I do have a streaming question. If a receiver is hooked up to my lan, can I use a NAS to stream my own collection ? And is there a device to make a 15 year old receiver wireless? IE, something to plug into a aux input.
Thanks in advance.
JD
1: Sound quality for both music and theater 2: Quality or room correction 3: Does it have all the inputs and outputs that are required 4: Does the receiver have any streaming apps for music that I may want to access unless I am comfortable with adding an external box. 5: Reliability of product 6: Ease of servicibility 7: Upgradability modular NAD or non Modular everyone else.
The reality is that when you build captavating home theater you don’t think about the bells and whistles instead you are drawn into the Movie, TV program or Sporting event other than good to excellent room correction, we would take a product which sounds better then one that has useless features such as transcoding, or video upconversion or other silly features.
We sell the Anthem and they are very, very good, however, they excell more at pure theater roles then the Arcam, Audiocontrol uniits which have overall better amplfication and greater musicality, which they should have for the additional cost an MRX 720 Anthem’s best selling 7 channel unit at $2,400.00 vs the Audiocontrol at $4,000.00 and the Arcam AVR 550 at $3,400.00 for a comparable bunch of channels.
So here is what we would rate in order of importance as criteria for selecting an AVR.
1: Sound quality for both music and theater 2: Quality or room correction 3: Does it have all the inputs and outputs that are required 4: Does the receiver have any streaming apps for music that I may want to access unless I am comfortable with adding an external box. 5: Reliability of product 6: Ease of servicibility 7: Upgradability modular NAD or non Modular everyone else.
For your budget you could almost get away with separates, even decent ones. Recent model marantz 8802a has dropped in price to just under 2k places are blowing them out to make way for he new 8805. Anthem, lexicon, older krell, and outlaw 7 channel amps can be found for under 2k. So you can almost have it all at that budget. The separate amp in most cases will be superior to the receiver but the setup is obviously more complex.
I would recommend Anthem. I am totally crazy and have been into 2 channel after mono since the 60s. I have been into multichannel since quadraphonic and got the first Yamaha DSP 1 that had all the algorithm church and symphonic hall reverb info to simulate different room characteristics. I have had several different AV receivers and now have gone to seperates to get killer sound. I am using a 500 watt 5 channel amp, high current to drive large speakers in an Atmos set up.Anthem P5 Statement. Also AV60 pre pro for 2 channel and 7.1.4 Atmos.
Finest and quietest electronics I have ever came across so far. I wouldn't steer you wrong go for it get the best.
The Market can best be divided by the Japanese brands with every feature under the sun and having decent to good sound quality
vs.
American and European brands, Arcam, Audiocontrol, Primare, NAD, that are more about sound quality.
The Arcam and Audiocontrol receivers are really special sonically, The Audiocontrol Maestro M7 receiver is an upgraded version the Arcam with an improved amplifier, and a longer warranty, both the Arcam and Audiocontrol products are made by Audiocontrol in Oregon.
Over the years we have set up Onkyo, Integra and Denon and Marantz Receivers none of them sounded as warm, punchy and clean as the higher end brands mentioned above.
We sell and display, Arcam, Audiocontrol, NAD, Anthem, if we can answer any specific questions please reach out to us.
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