Rhodium cost more? Hmm! That’s weird. Solid silver wire (not sold core) with PTFE and gold/copper/silver, ends would be better. Gold over copper or silver or pure silver terminal ends.. Rhodium is right there with brass and nickel as far as SQ. Harder than the hubs of hell to.. HARD stuff. No corrosion though.. BUT gold is really better from a corrosion point and stereo use softer. We’re not in the tundra (permafrost) at 50 below ZERO by a saltwater ocean front.. :-)
The old copper can sure turn colors .. in tonearms. Clean all the pins ay! Get a new tone arm DIN locking end for 12-35 dollars.. actual arm din for the headshells
Regards. |
I thought Rhodium is priced higher but that could have been isolated as they are hard to find. Anyway, I paid extra $ for the rhodium fuses in my amplifier. I had the cable at he end of my tonearm replaced with Wireworld cable which made a noticeable improvement. What I do see plenty of are 99.9% pure silver plated copper. |
Save your money, dab some NPS1260 on there, bigger improvement, way less hassle. |
millercarbon, I'd have to buy some NPS1260. It's not inexpensive, that's certain. |
Probably little to no difference. |
|
OP They sell clads because it cheap to make, and offers pretty good results.
Copper with silver clad is a constructs that takes a LONG time to break in as a Speaker IC. Now think how long it takes for a very very low v signal passing through that wire to break in, season and settle.. It takes a LONG time.
I had a guy rebuild an SME 3012 II. He offered a service to "Season" the cabling and new tone arm wire. I opted at the time NOT to do it..
I get it back load up the ol Grado and it sound OK, BUT it sounded better before, WAY better.. I call the guy.. It needs to be "SEASONED" he says.
What the heck is seasoned? It was almost 40 years ago.. He says send it back there will be NO CHARGE and when I get it back, let him know.
6 weeks with shipping and "Seasoning".
I get it back it's like getting a brand new 3K grato that was broke in and ready to go.. It was night and day. I paid him for his service and all the charges.. WELL worth it..
The point behind the spill is maybe the wire is good enough and a little goop here and tape there might fix you right up..
Look up Rhodium it's sound and conductive properties aren't anything I would use in a stereo.. Some swear by it though.. |
For reasons that are not obvious from the physics, copper does sound different from silver. (Yes, I know silver is a slightly better conductor, but explain to me how that affects SQ, assuming all audio frequencies are conducted with equal efficiency in both media.) Different listeners prefer one or the other. You have to decide which you prefer, but I also do not think based on my own experimentation that copper vs silver makes much audible difference at all when it comes to headshell wires, which are very short. Like MC suggests, a good contact enhancer, or any maneuver that allows you to reduce the number of physical connections in the phono signal path, would probably result in a better bump up in SQ than changing from copper to silver over 2 inches or so of wire. Those connectors, from cartridge pins to wire to headshell contacts to contacts at the rear of the headshell, to female RCA outputs or a DIN plug at the tonearm to the phono inputs, are where one has most to gain. Get rid of as many of those as possible. By the way, I hate silver coated copper wire, but that's just me. I prefer pure copper or pure silver, solid core vs stranded. Again, only my opinion and should not affect yours.
|
Thanks to all! As for the NPS1260 contact solution. Is this safe to use? I read somewhere with the Walker Audio solution that it dries hard and cannot be removed. I’m interested in using the NPS1260 for multiple applications. |
Worrying about the type of wire used! Copper vs. silver? You guys need a new hobby! That and a recommendation to stay out of the sun! |
I like silver wire. That being said, for maybe 6 inches of wire total, don't think you could tell the difference. I couldn't justify $600 for contact enhancer, but haven't tried it. If you've got the cash, try it and let us know. No Rhodium! |
No Rhodium, OK but I'm leaving the Rhodium plated fuses in my amp as there's nothing objectionable about the sound and don't knoww if I could change those fuses myself. |
In general the use of Silver as a Wire will be reported through varying Perception of the SQ, that the delivery is more noticeably lean.
A less presence of weight in the Bass Frequency and a more noticeable projection of the Mid's and High Frequency
Whether this perception is to be perceived when using a Tag Wire is in my experience not commonly discussed.
It is a discussed topic on IC's and Speaker Wire.
Will the Tag Wire then be going into a Tonearm with Copper Wire > Copper Connectors> Copper IC from Tonearm to Phonostage.
There might be a Synergy ? only the end user can decide.
If there is a wish for a Little more noticeable extension toward the Mid's and High, without wanting to reduce the weight in the Bass.
A PC Triple C Tag Wire can do this.
I use these and was impressed with the subtle, but noticeable change to a delivery from a Audio Technica Tag Wire.
Ortofon sell the PC Triple C at a very reasonable price. |
Thanks for that suggestion pindac. Never thought about PC Triple C for phono use, I will check it out. |
SAEC are the only Company I am aware of offering PC Triple C as a Internal Tonearm Wire.
I have a intention to Strip out a Wire and use the Strands to produce a Wire to the Gauge to suit a Internal Tonearm use.
If all goes well this will be used to exchange my ’in use’ Wire.
I am Methodically Changing to PC Triple C (PC CCC) from OCC throughout the entirety of the System.
I have a Nanotech Power Strada 308 Power Cable that has impressed me.
Interconnects are on route as a Off the Shelf Version and I have Wire on Order to Build my Own.
I also have D.U.C.C Interconnects as well to compare with the PC CCC.
Note: Their is no Holy Grail Cable or Formula to help the best selection of Interfaces to be made using wires/cables.
Trailling and Trawling through options and configurations will help discover the Interfaces that are delivering the Sound Quality that is a
fine tuned asembly to enable a Listenerto create a set up to satisfy their Unique Preferences.
There are individuals who have Discarded $3000+ Dollar Cables for Home Built versions of IC’s and Speaker Cables.
It can be said the exchange to the PC CCC Tag Wires made a Impression, ’even though it is subtle’, in a Sytem that can reveal like mine, a Subtle Change for the betterment, is a Night and Day difference.
The PC CCC achieved this at a very fair outlay.
If the wish is to trial PC CCC Tag Wires there are a few versions of these available on Yahoo Japan.
I have only tried the Ortofon so far, curiosity is creeping in though.
Will the PC CCC /EX get an audition ?
Using the 40+ Years owned Pink Floyds ’Wish You Were Here’ Album.
During the ’wish You Were Here’ Track about Midway through the Track
a backing vocal comes in with a quietness and progressing forward in the mix.
Using the PC CCC Tag Wire, the backing vocal comes completely forward in line with lead singer.
This same change to the details has happened on another System as well.
This is not happening to this same detail with other Tag Wires in use.
During a Session with comparing Cartridges on another System,
Cartridges that were costing quite a margin more than mine, were not allowing this level of detail through, and the Mid’s and Highs when in the Hot Seat, were IMO with a little more projection.
With another 40+ Year owned Album Lou Reeds ’ Transformer’
the Track ’Take a Walk on the Wildside’ produces a more noticeable reverberating Bass Note, than my other used Tag Wires, the extende time for the Note to Decay is very attractive.
What totally bewilders me is that Albums that have been Abused in a earlier period of ownership, through typical Teenager Activities from the Vinyl Heydays are still capable off delivering a performance that is offering insights that impress.
For me the Introduction of the PC CCC Tag Wire gave extra insight to the Attack, Dynamics, Sustanance and Decay that has been Engineered into a Mix.
|
This is AT-609 silver lead wire. They made PC-OCC copper too. |
Well, you got your answer. There is no answer.
But the Walker stuff does dry out. Does NOT glue the connection together. Works well. Otherwise use Pro Gold. Get rid of connectors in the signal path. Suffice to say I don’t agree w Pindac on wire. |
This has been a great learning experience, thanks to all. I have known for a longtime that connectors/connections are the weak link, so still a lot of things to try. Does anyone know about intermetallic formation between gold and silver? I know from my failure analysis days that intermetallic formation was a major cause of failures, specifically between gold and aluminum. |
Really? Gold is thought of as very inert, which is why it is a favored outer coating, does not oxidize. Anyway, Aluminum reacts with many other metals. Silver not nearly so much, but it does oxidizes. The good news is silver oxide is nearly as conductive as pure silver.
|
I'm glad some folks are getting something from the post. There are some things for me to try. Thanks! |
Anybody who has genuinely worked with a nterfaces between devices will have had a experience, where the assessments are creating varying descriptions.
A Tonearm can have a Internal Wire bypass conventional set ups and have the Wire extended and be produced to a design where the Wire is directly connected to the Cartridge, and the Wires second connection point is at the Phonostage end.
This can be taken even further, with the Wire being Hard Wired into the Phonostage.
The other option is to have a Pillar End Connection, as a short extension,
that terminates as a Male RCA.
This will allow for a further experience of IC's without requiring to have the IC's Termimated with a 5 PIN Din Plug.
All of the Methods referred to above have been offered to me.
I have declined as I need a robust set up and am content with how the conventional set up performs and allows me to travel with kit.
I am getting a v ery satisfactory SQ from a conventional set up.
I can communicate this to others in a confident way and I am not looking to encourage a work on a Tonearm that will potentially need a Third Party help to achieve.
A work that 'might' devalue a expensive Tonearm, or at best make the Tonearm a less atrractive purchase option to another Party, when is a modified condition .
As an expample, I don't see how a SME IV or V will be viewed as a attrctive option as a Purchase if the Inners are modified to allow a Bypass of all factory supplied connectors.
I don't really want to be in a discussion with a Buyer, explaining that the Tonearm has been modiified to function in a particular way and is now back to its original condition.
I would like to think that if this was a discussion to be undertaken,
a receipt for the returning of the Tonearm back to Factory Specification is available from SME or a SME Appointed Service Enginneer, to support the Quality of the corrective works.
Much of my HiFi communication is undertaken with individuals that use a conventional set up.
It makes it easier for me to communicate my experiences, when they are from using similar designs.
Hence I have remained using a Standard Tonearm Wiring Set Up with a Wand containing Wire, with a Male Pin Connection at the Headshell End and a 5 Pin DIN connector at the Pillar End.
I have swapped out Tag Wires and 5 Pin Din IC's.
I am always going to do these types of investigations, as they are simplistic to achieve and can be quite revelatory in what becomes on offer.
I am not 'anti' One Wire from Cartridge to Phonostage,
I have heard then in use and enjoyed the experience.
I don't recall feeling the need to have a Tonearm modified Internally to produce a version.
I have looked at a Method to enable a Wire to be mounted externally on the Wand, so I can try out a Wire I am keen to trial and have the wire as a detachable material.
I am yet to source the Wire without a need to purchase a expensive cable and strip it, this has limited my investigations into suitable external mounted designs for a Wand to support wire.
My main interaction with my system is all about Listening Enjoyment and Travelling with the System or Devices belonging to the System,
to be a Social Participant in HiFi Enthusiast Meet Ups or Events.
This can prior to COVID with Travel Time added, be approximately 20% of my sit down in front of the System Listening.
Being able to Pack the devices with a minimum risk of a damage being incurred is a governing requirement.
Excess Lengths of Internal Tonearm Wire to deal with, are not robust enough or ideal for myself to have to manage.
The OP inquired about Headshell Tag Wires, not about modifying a Tonearm to use a continuous wire from Cartridge to Phonostage.
I think my responses have been in keeping with the request for information, even though I did not discuss Silver as a metal.
|
I guess Hughes Electronics thought so too. Something about the gold caused the aluminum to oxidize and create bond failures. I'm thinking other materials besides gold would also cause this type of failure. I know silver oxidizes and silver oxide is a good conductor. Maybe in a connector it would be okay, since we're not relying on the material for strength, only conductivity. My old Philips GA-212 had silver plated RCA connectors. I'm going to do some experimentation. Any other comments or knowledge is very welcome! |
fiesta, I think you may have it backwards. Aluminum is very apt to cause problems when in close contact with any of several metals. But I would have thought that gold would be less of a problem than iron or steel, bonded to aluminum. Anyone who as ever restored an old car with aluminum body parts can confirm what I too have experienced. Anyway, aluminum is usually the culprit, is my point.
|
Yes, aluminum IS the problem. Just surprised it reacted with gold. |
Goofyfoot, you can do whatever you like but any sonic difference between any of the wires is imaginary. You are better off getting a tonearm without a removable head shell and ditching that connection entirely. Gets rid of unnecessary mass located in the worst place you can imagine right at the end of the tonearm. |
As for metals you have to study the galvanic table. Metals that are at opposite ends of the table cannot be put together. The more cathodic (noble) metal will always win at the expense of the more anodic metal. If you put Gold and aluminum together the aluminum will corrode. https://www.google.com/search?q=galvanic+chart+metals&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS869US869&tbm=isch&...Plain steel and aluminum are close together in the chart and work nicely together and you see this done in cars all the time. But, look where stainless steel is! Way at the bottom or cathodic side. It will corrode plain steel and aluminum. Stainless steel exhaust systems are a PITA for this reason. I have to replace the header bolts in my 911 every two years because they literally melt! You can't use stainless bolts in an aluminum head! (I drive the car in the Winter.) |
mijostyn, I've been hoping to replace that TP-16 tonearm for t least six years now but have yet to come up with the expendable income. It's always something. Anyway, when I do get to that place, the Sorane TA 1 is what I'm thinking about however it comes with a detachable head shell. It's about $1,600.00 |
Every arm I own has a detachable headshell, lets me setup and swap cartridges a lot easier. I'm partial to the Victor UA series and the Micro Seiki arms, the better ones use a collet type system that locks and grips the headshell very securely. As long as the contact pins are clean I don't worry about some theoretical signal degradation. They have always worked fine for me.
BillWojo
|
Detachable head shells are very convenient particularly if you like to swap cartridges or have to such as to play 78s. But, the signal is weak and contacts always seem to have issues, gold less so. It might just be me being neurotic but I prefer one wire head to tail. For 78s a separate table and arm are the ideal solution such as an inexpensive Audio Technica. My tendency is to always listen to the cartridge I like best. The others just sit in a box. The best solution would be two tonearms or two Turntables but that gets expensive.
@goofyfoot , The TA-1 looks like a very nicely made arm and is certainly a good value. I like the spring loaded anti skate mechanism as it is frictionless. It has a great bearing system. It is not neutral balance, VTF will change with elevation and the vertical bearing is lot at the level of the record so warp wow may be a problem with records that are no flat.
In that price range I would prefer the Origin Live Encounter arm. It is a one wire arm and the vertical bearing is at the level of the record. The anti skate device in the TA-1 is better but I do not think that overcomes it's other deficiencies. The origin live arm also has a much lower polar moment of inertia so it will track records better. |
