Yesterday I had been back an forth between Melz 1578 made in 80 and Melz 6n8s made in 53.
While 1578 give slightly more dynamics and wider soundstage, 6n8s made in 53 give slightly more air and sparkle thus more suitable for lady vocal.
Pair of 1578 cost me 250$ while pair of 6n8s metal base made in 53 cost me 69$.
Thus 6n8s made in 53 give an excellent value. |
Thomas,
I ordered a pair of the 6n8s and those are on the way from the Ukraine. The replacements for the 1578's that had noise are also on their way. Looking forward to doing some comparisons of my own.
For now I have my Sylvania 1950s vintage 6SN7GTB chrome domes in. They are really nice sounding all around, but don't have the bass of the 1578 and maybe a little less detail. They are very "neutral" sounding and do everything right, but I liked the way the 1578's added more detail and texture to the bass.
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http://www.monarchy-audio.com/DIP_Combo_Main_frame.htm Monarch reclocker that I paid 200$ for used one three years ago changed the balance of my system. With it back between music server and Hugo Mscaler, overall system sounds with more air and sparkle. Now I favor 1578 over 6n8s made in 53 with better dynamics. Another thing is that I start hearing some high frequency noise out of 6n8s. Thus I may need to re solder the pins of it. Russian tubes may not be for one who is not willing to do soldering himself. So far 1578 tube that I had bought from Russian dealer sounds find without noise. But it may develop some noise later on according to opinion from people who have lot of experience with Russian tubes. They claim to have cured the problem with re soldering pins. |
I enjoyed reading all of the comments and comparisons. Since I build a 6SN7 based preamp, I had to find a current production tube with the preamps and amplifiers as I could not offer them with NOS tubes of which I own most of them already.
We built a preamp with a resistor selector switch to enable the user to switch between resistors any time. This was more effective and made a bigger impact than changing the tubes. Think naked Vishay, Caddock, Audio Note, Shinkoh, etc. It was also an easy way to adjust the sound for the different recordings. Then we changed the voltage for the 6SN7 tube we finally decided on and designed the products around that tubes sonic signature to our liking for the products.
That solved the problem of which tube sounds best on what recording, the cost of purchasing NOS tubes, and made the design easier to implement.
Happy Listening. |
@bigkidz
Thanks for your kind word and input.
I fully understand that amp maker can not use Nos tubes because of limited quantity available and variation among them.
But it is still fun to do tube rolling.
Now I have around 50 pairs of 6sn7 tubes.
30 pairs will be in just storage.
I will take turns at 20 pairs to taste different flavor.
As of now, my favorite tube is 1578 Melz made in 1980 (250$ net cost to me through Ebay dealer)
Thomas |
@shking78 thanks interesting read I hae never tried that particular tube. I have always found the Tung-Sol black glass round plates to be the most musical and magical. I will have to try the 1578 Melz myself just for the fun. I also found the CBS short bottles to be a bargain basement for the price.I used to love the tube rolling game and enjoyed having friends come over to listen or bring a tube to their house for a listen. I also recently used the Tung-Sol 6SL7 in a buddies Dude preamp with excellent results - slightly more gain but retains the TS magic and mid-range sweetness.
Happy Listening. |
I received my replacement set of 1578 tubes today and they sound fantastic. No crackling like I had with the bad one I received the first time. My air conditioning has been on so I don't have a good sense yet of how low the noise floor is with them, but they are a little bit more noisy than other tubes I've used. So far the sound is wonderful with music playing. |
My pair of 1980 Melz 1578 from Olga arrived yesterday. After playing 8-10 hours background music in our living room system I sat down to listen.
WOW!
I'm ordering another set of Metz 1578 now. I also ordered a pair of 1954 Metz 6N8S.
What I noticed…. depth, focus and groove. I'm not a huge Kraftwork fan but listening to Tour De France (2009) remaster (M) Tidal I was unable to surf the internet the music kept drawing me in!
Thanks for the heads up Thomas |
@mid40sguy
It is very nice for you to enjoy 1578 tube made in 80's,
I was skeptical of the tube when some person raved about it.
But after trying it in my amp, I became a believer.
@big_greg
It is good for you to get new replacement tube.
I hope that they will work fine. |
Thomas, the replacement tubes are much better. They are a little more noisy than other tubes I've tried but they do great things with the music. It seems to have more weight and texture. |
Thomas and big_greg,
I'm not enjoying my second pair of 1578's at all. It's taking a long time to burn-in; they don't have the bass extension and impact of my first pair which sounded great from the start. It's a shame one of them crapped out.
I have 35 hours on Melz #2 and pulled them out. I'll burn them in some other time. Early 1950s Tung Sol GTB are sounding better than the Melz.
Luckily my replacement 1578's arrived today.
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@lowrider57 that's a bummer. Seems like a bit of a crap shoot. |
Is everyone ordering their 1578 from the same eBay seller? Seems to be a lot of poor quality and noisy tubes being sold? Some Ukraine and Russian sellers have been known for selling QC rejects. |
@testpilot
This subject was mentioned on another forum. All the best tubes went into service with the Russian Military and QC standards were high during the Cold War.
The tubes in question are from 1980 and QC had slacked off by then. The Military still got the highest rated tubes, others were sold to the public. These do have the OTK inspection stamp.
Sounds like a plausible explanation.
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I have three pairs of 1578 two made in 1980 and one in 1983.
Two of them had been bought from persons in US.
One of them is bought from Russian dealer.
The one from Russian dealer had been working fine so far for 30 hours.
if you have problem with it, contact the Russian dealer, it seems that Olga is cooperative with request.
Recently I had run into terrible Ebay dealer located in US.
I will post his case in more detail later today. |
I ordered Kenrad vt 231 tube from Ebay dealer " vascotube " or "tube tech" on June 5th Thursday. Most Ebay dealer ship the item on next day or following day. But this guy did not show any shipping information by Saturday. Thus i sent request to give tracking information. But no response from him. After going through his measurement " TUBE1) 90/112TUBE2) 100/120 ", I got the impression that this tube is not matched well. Thus on Sunday I sent him to cancel this order if it had not been shipped. But no response from him either. On Monday, I gave him final ultimatum, if he does not respond to his reply, then I will leave negative feedback on him. But I got no response by 6PM eastern time, thus I left negative feedback on him at his Ebay site. Then he contacted me and asked me to start return process instead of his cancelling unshipped order. I started return process but he refused to agree to return proceedure unless I change the feedback on him. I told him that you had not responded to my three inquires for more than 48 hours. Thus i can not change my feedback
out of my conscience.
He then found out that I am an Asian and gave me racial slur against Asian. I had tried to resolve this case peacefully. I told him that if he give me sincere apology about racial slur and cancel the order from his unshipped item, then I will close the case. But no response for more than 10 days. I had bought lot of things including Nos tubes in Ebay, but had not had any problem with anyone except this guy. Most other dealers gave response to my inquiry within 12 hours. But this guy did not respond to my three inquiries for more than 48 hours. And then he made a racial slur against me. I am going to file racial discrimination suit against him. Stay away from Ebay dealer " vascotube " Thomas |
Thomas, have you contacted PayPal and filed a complaint?
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This is the mail that I sent him last Friday but no response.
He does not seem to realize what he had done wrong.
Re: Racial discrimination suit
Hi
Out of grace, I am going to give you the last chance.
If you express sincere apology about racial slur and cancel the order of Kenrac vt231 on your side by 6PM, Friday 19th,
then I will settle this case as solved.
If not, I will post your racial slur in three audio forums where I am well known member.
Also I will ask my attorney to file racial discrimination suit against you next week.
The fact that I gave you chance for leniency and you did not accept it will go agains you at the court proceeding.
Be wise young man.
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Thomas please report this clown to Ebay and PayPal. He should be shut down. His use of racial slurs is unforgivable.
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I’ve been reading this thread with interest.
By chance, a few weeks ago I won a nice pair of NOS CBS 5692 red base tubes at a very good price.
They have now replaced my much-enjoyed pair of Ken-Rad VT231.
The CBS 5692s do not seem to be as sought after as the CBS/Hytron tubes. What I can say is that these tubes are very well balanced and the quietest of any 6SN7s I own.
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CBS 5692 with a red base was made by RCA. It's the same excellent tube but costs less.
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I'm not enjoying my second pair of 1578's at all. It's taking a long time to burn-in; they don't have the bass extension and impact of my first pair which sounded great from the start. It's a shame one of them crapped out.
I have 35 hours on Melz #2 and pulled them out. I'll burn them in some other time. My news of the day is very positive. The replacement 1578's sound incredible after 30 minutes warmup. A low noise floor is revealing subtle sounds from a deep 3D soundstage. Fingers crossed on these tubes. My first pair sounded great until 50 hours when they started to crackle and burn. Tracking shows my Melz 6N8S from Ukraine has passed through JFK customs. Something to look forward to. |
Dear @lowrider57 and @shkong78 - might you be able to post pictures of your favorite Melz 1578 tubes and also the name of your trusted ebay sellers? From my research (much of which took place before this shootout thread was started) the desireable Russian 6N8S/1578 tubes are the ones with multiple round holes up and down the plates, the OTK stamp and (ideally) 1578 stamped on the tube. Now on ebay I am seeing several other variants being marketed as 1578s. One is a more common one without the multiple round holes up and down the plates. This one looks a lot like the Foton 6N8S, which is pretty common. Another has the round holes, but no OTK stamp and no 1578 stamp. Which ones are you guys enjoying? And how are you able to confirm the production dates? BTW, some of the Foton 6N8S tubes sound very good, but some sound rather thin, in my system. Thanks, in advance, for any info you can share. Markus |
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Charles turned me on to this seller who is dependable with fast shipping from Russia. They've raised the price, most likely due to demand.
The date is inside the logo.
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After receiving two more pairs of 6n8s metal base tube made in 1952 today, now I have 5 pairs of 6n8s metal base tubes in addition to 3 pairs of 1578 tubes made in 1980 and 83.
6n8s metal base sounds more female like with nuanced details while 1578 sounds more robust with deeper bass.
I will take turns at tubes depending on my mood. |
Another bad Melz 1578. I ordered 3 pairs and like the first set, one tube is crackling after 50 hours of burnin. It's also microphonic; in between crackles I can hear the tube echo thru the speakers when I tap on my amp.
These are all from 1980 and the same dealer (who does accept returns), but I'm done gambling with this batch of tubes. Damn, they sound so good.
I received my 6N8S 1950 pair from Ukraine, but will wait to try them until I've run-in my 1578's.
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I was pretty good at soldering, but over the years my vision has deteriorated. Plus this is not a task I would want to do.
I think soldering would only make sense if doing pairs of tubes. I went back a few pages on the Head-Fi link and he was soldering all his Melz tubes.
It would be great if somebody in our hobby who loves tubes was offering this service.
I must say that my system sounds the best ever. I have a pair of 1578's in the front of my Atma-sphere gain stage, Sylvania oblique plate GTA's in the 2nd gain position, and Sylvania GTB's as the drivers. Music is transparent and realistic with high and low extension. And best of all is the 3D image which extends back into the wall and out in front of the speakers. I think this is possible due to having 2 different pairs of 6SN7's in the gain stage.
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I just did the soldering trick on a pair my Melz 1578 one tube would make some cracklings noise once in a while. During warm up. .3 hrs in not a peep. It took me about 10 minutes to do the pair.. |
@93cobra
Do you separate the base from the bottle? Can you explain the procedure?
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Charles, I wanted to report back to you on adding Sylvania VT-231 to 1578 in the gain stage. What a great combination, thank you.
To use your words, there's a spooky black background. Listening to some Blue Note, I heard the drummer breathing during his solo.
The VT-231 is so quiet and refined, fantastic tube and perfect top-end for the Melz.
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@lowrider57
the base stays intact. I lightly clamp the tube in a soldering vice (soft rubber pads on the jaws). I position the tube on a slight angle, so if solder gets on the outer pin it’s all on one side for easy clean-up. I then put a few drops of liquid flux in the hollow pin. I use a soldering gun with a flat tip at high temp to heat the pin as fast as possible until the flux starts to bubble..then start feeding solder into the pin until top is closed. Not sure on the exact solder..my buddy who soldiers circuit boards for a living had given it to me for this specific job. It’s a very fast process,
i see your in philly. I’m just outside of KOP area. I would be willing to help you solder you tubes .. |
@93cobra
That is most kind of you. Will send a PM. |
so the resoldering process is to fill the hollow pins with solder?
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My 6n8s tubes arrived yesterday. I was only able to play a couple of songs, but right out of the box, these sound like winners. Very quiet and detailed, good dynamics, and a little more "tubey" sounding than the 1578s. I'm reserving judgment on them until I can do some extended listening, but initial impressions are very good. |
Thomas, Thank you for all the hard work and financial commitment you made putting this together. It is greatly appreciated. Cheers. |
@big_greg For now I have my Sylvania 1950s vintage 6SN7GTB chrome domes in. They are really nice sounding all around, but don’t have the bass of the 1578 and maybe a little less detail. They are very "neutral" sounding and do everything right, but I liked the way the 1578’s added more detail and texture to the bass. The Sylvania GTB is an underrated tube. I’m using them in the driver/phase inverter position. Excellent midrange, smooth highs with wide soundstaging. A laid-back sound which doesn’t have the typical Sylvania voicing. As good as it sounds in my system, I’m still auditioning other tubes. |
The Sylvania GTBs sound really good and are reasonably priced. I'm listening to the 6N8S right now, they are surprisingly good! |
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@
phcollie
Thanks for your kind word.
I am happy with Kenrad vt231 at gain stage and Sylvania vt 231 at buffer stage on Schitt Freya.
Thomas |
Thomas,
I had to return two sets of the Melz 1578 tubes due to noise. I could hear them at my listening position and my speakers are not very sensitive. I did get one quiet pair and kept those. I wanted to get another pair for when these wear out, but gave up. The 6N8S from Ukraine are surprisingly good. |
6N8S from Ukraine are also good tubes at excellent value under 100$ per pair.
But I enjoy full bass out of Melz 1578.
Some Melz 1578 has a problem with noise. |
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for the price of these tubes they offered a more tube sound than the new JJ Tesla 6SN7 tubes I was using. More musical, more dimension, a nicer more relaxed sound in direct comparison in the preamp. Have not tried them in my hybrid tube power amp yet or to the many 6SN7 tubes I already own. |
My search for a pair of 6SN7/6F8G’s for a Supratek Chardonnay preamp continues. I’ve tried the Shuguang WE6SN7, early and late ‘50s CBS Hytron’s, and wartime National Union and grey glass Sylvania 6F8G’s. Of those, my favorite are the Sylvania’s, which offer a fine mix of sonic features I like, including a moderate degree of warmth.
Today I’m about 10 hours into a pair of genuine metal base NOS Melz 1578’s, sold and given initial few days burn in by someone in the States who had collected quite a few, resoldering the pins to ensure the best sound and long life. I have to say that this pair has great clarity, good tonal accuracy and a very nice sense of rhythm. Playing the old (1994) Sheffield/XLO Test and Burn-in CD, the 1578 renders the Doug Sax/Roger Skoff stage walk-around the clearest and most realistic I’ve heard over the years. However, what I haven’t heard yet is a sense of life or “alive.” I would characterize it so far as dry, uninvolving, boring in the sense of the music just passing by when not paying attention to the other characteristics (which I prefer not to focus in most of the time). Similarly, in the 6SN7 double blind shootout posted on Audio Head, three of the four panel members characterized the Melz as “dead” (the three liked the wartime grey glass RCA GT the best). Will have to see what develops, although “life” is not usually something that develops with burn in, but is either part of a tube’s DNA, or not.
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