2. home-theater
  3. 188312-132928

Sharing a subwoofer between a Stereo and HT combination.

Looking to improve my Stereo playback in a limited space apartment.

Presently have a Denon AVR X3700H and I use it for Stereo in Pure Direct Mode for Stereo, and in a 5.1 configuration for HT.

Would like to improve the Stereo playback, and considering options.

1. Add a better stereo amplifier for just the Front L/R speakers.

2. Add a better Integrated with HT bypass for Stereo to the existing.

3. Add a Preamplifier with HT bypass and a Stereo amplifier to the existing.

Option 1 is obviously the simplest, and is the easiest starting point. Would use the existing pre of the AVR, and the bass management of the AVR and sub. Disadvantages are that the Pre is not the best and sub integration with the FRONT L/R with the separate amp likely not balanced at all volume levels in both stereo and HT modes.

Options 2 and 3 can provide better Stereo, but I am having trouble sorting out how the subwoofer integration will work for the Home Theater configuration.

Has anyone worked thru this and have any suggestions for subwoofer integration? Best Stereo integration, and reasonable HT integration at various volume levels. 60db to 80db average.

At the moment I am favoring Rouge Audio and Hegel as the component items for the Stereo system, either as integrated or separates. Would also consider Parasound and Anthem.  The Hegel integrated would require an additional unity gain pre to provide all the inputs I would ultimately like to accommodate.

Heard the Hegel H390 at my local dealer, and was blown away by the sound. Not sure I can afford to go that route, but am considering the Hegel H190 with the hope of the same sound. Adding a unity gain pre to get more inputs is a complication. As a result would consider the Hegel P20 and H20 to get the Hegel sound with separates.

Could not hear the Rogue Audio components in a similar configuration in the same room, but considering the Rogue Audio Pharaoh as an integrated, or the RP-1 and Hydra as separates. Maybe all the way to the RP-5 and Dragon as separates. Heard the Rogue Audio Sphinx V3 versus the Hegel H95, and liked the Rogue better with the same speakers (Revel Concerta2 M16). Also heard the Rogue Pharaoh with a Rogue pre, but a different configuration, speakers, and room, with different input, but liked the sound.

Have not heard comparable Parasound or Anthem configurations. Have an Anthem AVX 510 that was replace by the Denon when it went in for a repair. Like it’s sound, and used it as a test of the pre outs from the Denon into the Anthem for stereo, and that led to more exploration. I know, no amplifier ins on the Anthem, so not a sustainable configuration, but gave me ideas. The Anthem is outdated for video, so haven’t put it back in the main system. Looked at the Anthem STR integrated, but the HT bypass also shuts off the subwoofer integration. That is largely what led me to the issue of subwoofer integration with a multi use set up.

As I understand at the moment, it would seem that the best integration of the subwoofer would be to connect the subwoofer to line level outputs of the stereo system, and optimize the subwoofer there. Set the HT as a 5.0 and make sure the fronts are set as full range to use the Stereo as the front L/R with HT bypass.

Any hints or tips welcome. Note: I do not have the space for 2 separate listening environments, and do not foresee that in my remaining lifetime. If you look at some of what I have listed here, the price range goes from $2k up to $8-10K, so consider that a range. Tube pre OK, but not sure I am ready for all tube amp. Present speakers not optimal for tube. May update speakers, but will likely still be bookshelf’s as the space and room layout cause more issues with full range floor standers. Only path I would see to tube amps would be to go to single driver full range speakers.

budjoe
frl
24 posts
 

My 3.1 mixed setup has been rock solid for the past three years.

- Denon 4700x running in pre-amp mode

- 3 channel power amp (ATI 523NC)

- Parasound P6 for front channels on the bypass input. Sub out from Denon to the Sub Bypass input. Sub Bypass is a great feature, it operates the same as the L/R bypass with sub output and crossover/level management controlled by the P6 for stereo inputs and by the AVR for HT play via bypass input. One note on the P6, the internal DAC isn’t great and I experienced great improvement inserting a separate DAC.

All components are in a console and controlled by universal remote. I only need to get up to change the CD.

Running a separate Pre was critical for my use case, because I like to watch sports on mute and play the stereo at the same time.

12many
269 posts
 

I went through the same upgrade path recently. Unfortunately, I don’t have a separate music room. I started with an amp powered by the pre-amp output from the AVR. It was better, however, your eventual goal should be to remove the AVR from the chain for stereo listening. I did this with a used node streamer (not using the internal dac), fed into a DAC with volume control and HT inputs, and then into the separate amp (AHB2). This is not an end game system, but it will be a huge step up from the AVR being in the loop and interfaces well with HT use. Used nodes are cheap and are a great stepping stone. You are already close to having the amp. The only part missing is the pre-amp dac function.

I decided on the DAC3 HGC paired with the AHB2. The DAC3 combines a DAC and volume control, as well as inputs for the signal from your AVR. And, you can output the sub signal from your AVR into the subs directly, or the DAC3 has a second set of analog outputs that you can feed into the subs. Having the analog outputs from the DAC to the subs is nice because you can then use the subs with stereo music as well as when using the AVR. It is a well made, versatile device, which measures great. And, it has a headphone output - music through headphones is amazing as well. Finally, you can add a tube preamp in the future, and just use the DAC3 as a DAC.  

Your are on the right path.

tommyr1963
3 posts
 

Similar desire to the OP - this worked for me:

Parasound zpre3 preamp (https://parasound.com/zpre3.php).  IMO, much smaller than it looks in the picture.

The preamp is connected to the amplifier for the left & right speakers.   Also, from the AVR, the front l & r preouts are connected to the  Parasound preamp.  (So, you need an AVR with preouts and an external amp for the front speakers).

The AVR and the Parasound pre-amp are both connected to the same subwoofer.  The Parasound preamp is connected to the line-in on the sub, and the AVR is connected to the LFE inputs (Rythmik sub).

So, the two-channel setup and surround setup share the same amplifier, front speakers and subwoofer.  The zpre3 has Home Theater Bypass, which provides some protection against having the AVR and preamp active at the same time.  I use the two-channel setup with a CD transport, digital streamer, and a DAC.  No turntable in the system.

soix
9,456 posts
 

I disagree with those that feel the pre in a well-made AVR is terrible. Mine has been quite engaging.

@larryincmh I’m sure it sounds fine, but you should still try a good stereo pre as it’ll make a sizable improvement, and you won’t know what you’re missing until you hear it. Years ago I inserted a good stereo preamp that relieved 2-channel duties from my Rotel prepro that was likely better than the pre section of your AVR, and the performance increase was substantial across the board. Pre sections of AVRs are hugely compromised by poor power supplies, noisy electronic and digital signals, and low quality parts — in short, they’re designed to do a lot at a low price point hence all the necessary compromises. When all those compromises are removed with a stereo pre it’s very easy to hear the improvement and very well worth at least trying.  One of the most important things I learned while reviewing audio equipment is preamps matter, and matter a lot.

budjoe OP
27 posts
 

Thanks to all replies. It looks like there are 3 solutions, but with some restrictions.

1. Parasound Halo P6 preamp, and the Parasound Hint6 both have 2 sub line level or LFE bypass inputs as well as the HT bypass inputs. Will check them out at the local dealer. It does limit the choice of integrated or pre. Thanks to @frl for pointing that feature out.)

2. Rythmik subwoofer has both line level, and LFE inputs. In HT bypass, the Line level would be active from the 2 channel integrated or pre, and in HT the LFE would be active. Both can stay connected at the same time. (Approved by Rythmik). Does limit subwoofer choice. Thanks to @tommyr1963 for pointing this out.

3. Anthem STR pre also offers subwoofer HT bypass, but at the loss of other analog inputs. @gkelly is trying that route. Hopefully he will post his experience.

I am not including the use of added switches to select input for the subwoofer. A choice I want to avoid, and haven’t looked to see if any offer remote control or other means to switch them. I guess a unity gain preamp could fill that role, but a lot of wire to solve what should be a simple problem.

Will do some hearing comparisons of the Parasound products. Will also see if they have any of the Anthem to demo (they are an Anthem dealer). I’m inclined to replace my existing sub with a Rythmik and choose other components for the 2 channel sound I am looking for. Will see what listening to the Parasound and Anthem choices reveal.

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