Rwd,
The Ref's VTA/SRA adjustment is on the fly.
It is less convenient to use than a TriPlanar or JMW because it requires two small hex wrenches, one to loosen the set screw and one to turn the adjusting screw. No knobs.
It is less repeatable than a TriPlanar because there's no scale of any sort.
Once a Ref is set up it will stay set up, but that doesn't mean you can just "set and forget". The cartridges likely to be paired with these arms are remarkably responsive to small adjustments. To maintain optimum performance requires frequent fine-tuning of VTF. Adjustment of VTA/SRA for every record, or at least different thicknesses. This will be equally true with a Reference, a TriPlanar or any other top arm, depending on the preferences of the user of course.
|
Thanks to you all!
Hi Sirspeedy!!! Yes I should give the great Sid all call.
In recent investigations into a new TT and arm my sights were set on the new VPI HR-X which came along with the 12.6 arm. No one, in particular, said the arm or table was or is lousy" (my goodness I own the 10.5 and find it good.) However, some 'goners here purchased the HR-X BUT installed a different arm (Graham 2.2) rather then the 12.6 which comes with it. In addition some dealers have said there are better tables out there and, more emphatically, better arms then the VPI arm.
I have been reading, like you, the interesting and intriguing story of the great Schroder arm. Also with that arm, I have been following the fine Tri-Planer arm. Add those two to the new Graham Phantom and we now have a goggle (correct word?) of arms. Too bad I (we) can't compare all four (Schroder, Tri-Planer, Graham, VPI) together. That would make my life easy.
Since I am 100% vinyl I am looking for the last(?) table and arm (read best) around. Sirspeedy, maybe, for me, it is the VPI but I doubt it. I suspect the Schroder (Tri-Planer, Graham) may be better. Don't know but many out there think so. If so, this new arm should sit on a better TT then my Aries (original). Don't you agree???
So I will continue to look and search and hopefully fine the correct match.
BTW....you don't always go with the latest and expect it to be the best.
I recently purchased a new Aesthetix Calypso Per-amp to replace my ARC LS25 MK1 and go with me Rhea phono amp. Boy, am I surprised!!! The ARC is giving the Calypso a run (really) for it's money!!!!! So, new (or what's in now) is not always the best!!
P.S. Aren't you also in the same club as Sid and David??
Doug....your comments are always so helpful and insightful. Thanks also to you Tbg. |
Rwd, if you are ever in NYC go by an hear the Shindo Labs/Garrard 301 set up. My guess is that you would buy it. |
Rwd,I am quite friendly with both of them,but belong to no clubs.As to the question of what's better,I really can't answer about any products I have not owned,and compared.Yet,you know a thing or two about what's good,so you will make a good decision.
As to the pre issue--You would be SHOCKED with how much farther,in design and performance,someone like Steve Huntly,of Great Norther Sound,can take an Audio Research unit.He literally rebuilt my SP-15(I counted at least 60 new parts),though expensive,it was much cheaper than the "buy and sell" syndrome,and I can honestly say it is of superb quality,in phono and linestages.I had previously owned the venerable SP-10,and SP-11,and it is NOT close.Actually,I think it may now be the finest component in my system.Check out their website.
Best! |
Hi Thg...I live in NYC! Where is the Shindo/Garrard 301 set up? BTW...do you mean the Garrard of many moons ago?? |
Check out shindolabs.com, Rwd. I think you will have to send an email to get an invitation.
Yes, it is a heavily modified Garrard 301 with equally modified Ortofon arm and cartridge. |
Hi
I will be auditioning some Shindo pre-amps in a few weeks, also will have a chance to listen to the Shindo 301. I will post my impressions of the system and what I may hear from the Shindo 301.
It is a table that perhaps is best as a whole, but you may systematically build up to the full Shindo 301 piece by piece. If you find a nice Garrard 301 then buy the plinth and arm, then modified Shindo cart, then spindle bearing and platter and mat.
Here is a review:
http://www.americanwired.com/audio/shindo301/shindo301.html
Call Jonathan at Tone Imports for more info.
Paul |
Hi Paul. Where are you going to audition the Shindo 301? Do you live in NYC? Possibly we can go together?
I assume the Garrard comes with the Ortofon arm. |
Rwd,
The Calypso does sound a bit sterile in stock form. If you can get a couple of good 12ax7's in there you will be greatly surprised by the improvement. I know that is tough to do with a demo unit. I was able to do this and the results with the Calypso was every bit as good as the BAT VK50-SE plus better detail and dynamics. |
Rwd, Every Shindo that I have seen, 4, have the modified Ortofon 12" arm and the modified Ortofon SPU cartridge.
Let me know what you hear. |
Hey Dan...demo unit?? Shoot, I purchased it sound unheard!! This is mine..:))! So, I guess I can play around all I want with the tubes. The original owner (real nine 'goner) had Semins in the 6922 spot and Dynaco in the 12AX7 spot. I believe the 12AX7 is the more critical? What tubes do you use, Dan?
Rick |
I just noticed that there will be(according to the product listings)a Schroder arm,at the VTV show,in May.This show is in Piscataway NJ,about five minutes from my business.I hope this is a working demo,as I have always been interested in hearing a set-up with a Schroder employed.
Does anyone have further info as to if this arm,and which model,is going to be available for audition.Also,with what associated equipment?
Thanks,in advance! |
Hi Rick,
I found some telefunkens for the 12ax7's and some Amperex White Label 7803 for the 6922. Not cheap, but a big improvement over the stock Sovteks. I agree that the 12ax7 has the most impact, but the 7803's picked it up a bit more in combination with the tele's. Once I had these in place this pre was every bit as good as my BAT VK50-SE but with more dynamics. So far, these are the only other tubes I have tried.
Best,
Dan |
I have a photo of a new Schroder Reference SQ but I don't know how to upload it. It is gorgeous. You must see it to believe it. I know it will be displayed on the TW Acustic Raven at a show, but I am not sure which show. It comes with Nordost, internal silver wiring. He will be using a Tron Seven phono stage and Dynavector XV-1s. |
Great Info SirSpeedy!!!! You know I will be there! BTW...what is the VTV? |
|
Rwd, VTV stands for Vacume Tube Valley, a website/magazine dedicated to tube electronics. Look here for the offical VTV Show webpageGreat show, I attended the last one in Los Angeles not too long ago. Small crowds, so it is easy to get into manufacturers rooms and hangout for extended periods of time. |
Karl-Heinz,
I love the wood on the Schroder SQ. I wonder which wood people prefer, both for looks & sound. thanks for the links & photos. |
WoW!! Thank you Dark and Dgad!! I will definitely be attending!!
I also love to see the new Schroder. P.S. Is the SQ a new designed arm? Is it replacing the DPS or Reference?
Boy, my mouth is watering!! So many tubes and TT's and arms....all to fill my needs.
Who else will be attending? Possible we could all meet for lunch/breakfast/dinner and chat and compare ideas?
Rick (RWD) |
No replacement for the DPS or Reference. Different wire and something to make adjustment a bit easier. But I heard, 1500 extra. No problem, getting divorced is more expensive. |
Rick,I'm going with Sid and Dave,as well as a few other audio buffs.I see no reason why we cannot meet,and scope out a few rooms together.Get in touch with Dave,and maybe you can work out a carpool,from N.Y.
Best! |
I'm interested in hearing more about this "SQ" version too! I have a Reference on order...
Colin |
I hope to be in Denver that weekend listening to Galibier and Teres tables. However, if it doesn't come together on that date I may try to join you guys for VTV. |
Dan,I would love to have you make it!You seem like a great guy.Maybe I'll bring along my early DOORS LP!-:)
Best! |
Well it looks like we have somthing going! Dan may be off to Colorado to check out some very interesting tables (both of which I am very interested in) OR he may join us at this FAB VTV show!! Colin has a Reference on order so he is interested in this new Schroder wired arm....and Sirspeedy, yes I will call Sid and Dave. I live in Staten Island and will be happy to drive some people if that can get to me? Looks like a lot of fun!!!!
Rick (RWD) |
Rick,I wasn't hinting at you driving.I thought you lived near Dave,and that He would drive.Sorry!
BTW-16 years ago,I lived in Great Kills!I won the "Walker Park" tennis open back then,that park,near St.Vincent Hospital(where my kids were born) is where the very first tennis court was introduced to the U.S.,by Mary Outerbridge!Just some meaningless info.
Best! |
Dan (or anyone north/east of NYC),
If you're passing through central CT, please consider paying us a visit. We're two minutes off I-91 and ten minutes from I-84.
We offer qualified visitors a chance to try these playtoys:
- TriPlanar VII
- Teres 320
- UNIverse
- Nick Doshi custom modded amp
- Nick Doshi custom MC/MM/line preamp
- a newly-opened bottle of Glenmorangie (better hurry!)
Cheers,
Doug |
Speedy, if I get my hands on an Allaerts I won't be trading for ANY lp! Not even that Doors first issue. But we could mount up the cartridge for a spin.
Doug, I'd really love to hear your system. It has been on my "things to do" list for quite some time. I'm guessing you're just about 1/2 way between me and Piscataway. OOOooooohhh. Single malt.
This would make a great weekend. My wife is always bugging me to figure out a way to go some where. Now she's gonna' pay! :) |
Doug,
I often drive from Long Island to Sturbridge Mass and probably pass through your area. I would like to take you up on your offer some time.
I'm a Lagavulin fan myself. I'll bring up a bottle.
Andrew |
I have never heard of Glenmorangie,or Lagavulin(have any of you heard of Gallo?),but from the "great cheap wines" that I have come to be acquainted with,I have noticed that some of the newer(from cheapo wines) corks look to be of a superb material,to act as an effective dampening footer,under certain equipment.Of course it would have to be cut into disc form,but don't laugh!The next time you splurge for a ten dollar bottle,assuming it is NOT actually real cork,take a gander at some of the "rubbery" stuff employed these days.Looks to make really good footers,for some equipment.I know,I know,I HAVE really lost it!But who doesn't know that,already?
Of course I wouldn't be surprised if some of this stuff got bought in bulk,cut to various sizes and was sold as fairly pricey dampening material.Knowing how this hobby can be,at times.
BTW,Doug--That was a very nice gesture,on your part.For those living in geographical proximity to you,and Paul.Sort of lends creedence to one of my favorite phrases---"It's nice,to be nice,to the nice"!You and Paul must be "nice guys"!!
Of course that is no guarantee that anyone will find your system sounding--"nice" -:)
Best! |
Andrew, I sincerely hope that I have not lent a hand in hijacking this thread. (Yeah, like I'm innocent!) Through recent posts I gather that events are turning toward something very close to the spirit of your original posts.
To those who might be following this thread I want to make it clear that I'm having absolutely no issues at all with coordinating plans with Galibier Design. Thom and I have been in constant contact, but we are both professionals and as much as we'd like it otherwise, work takes precedence. So, for anyone interested, the quasi-planned trip to hear the best available in Dever trip probably won't happen before the middle of May. This whole thing is going to be slightly hit or miss ( for lack of a better description ), but I really believe that when it does come together it will be worth it in spades!
After thoughtful negotiations over Mexican food, Marguaritas (me, not her. Oh my gawd, what did I say I would to?), and the calender of events, my wife has agreed to put up with me for a weekend of gleeful, geeky discussions and encounters concerning all things audio. She really means that we have to keep her entertained or she's gonna say "Screw you guys, I'm goin' home!"
(Really, she's a great person and a good sport! After 30 years I should know!)
Doug, I have to echo Speedy's praise that it is very good of you and Paul to offer your hospitality. I would have considered flyin down to Philly and then driving over for the VTV weekend but I would not pass up the opportunity to visit with you guys and hear your system.
All the best to everyone,
Dan |
SirSpeedy,
What, me nice? I just need to put faces to names. That may help if I need some handy insults, and of course you're invited too! Just keep the cheap wine in your paper bag and no one will know.
The system's almost ready for company. I just sourced a roll of mylar to replace the TT belt I mangled the other day. (Moron!)
Our amp is ready for pickup after Nick's latest upgrade. He says, "last upgrade". Hah! It's a great mod, but it takes several hundred hours (at least) to reach its full potential. With luck we'll be in reasonable form by the end of the week.
I hope so. Swampwalker and Jyprez may be dropping by for a preamp party. It wouldn't do to play them CD's using half an amplifier.
|
Doug,actually I believe the cheap wine I brought to Larry's place may have been partly responsible for the disappointing amount of correspondence he and I have had(I was pretty sad about that,for awhile,but I've gotten good at rationalizing).Hey,it did cost me eleven bucks-:)I drink it all the time,but I guess those hoity toity "Florida 'Philes" are used to something special.Like GOOD stuff.Not found in Joisey.
BTW--You might want to re-think any invites,for me.I wouldn't want to go off again(and what a "putz" I was)on some stupid misalignment,like antiskate,or God forbid,something else I might find.Though I'm fairly sure your set-up is just fine!As to me,you know the story of "the frog and the scorpion"?I've tried really hard to be a frog,for the last few months,but why tempt me?
BTW-You're still a nice guy,even though I'm "southwest" of NYC,and not "northeast",where you'll find the more "Normal" audiophile fare!And believe me,I'm tempted to make a trip,as my friggin amp is in for maintenance,as well as my table,which is in for an update.As my friends say--I'm hi-fi dry!
Best! |
Boy, what a fabulous hobby we have! Just look at this thread and the comradery that exists here!
First off, Doug, I sure would love to visit you and hear your wonderful system. You are a kind man. Let me check my free time and see where you actually are in Ct so I can carve out some time.
To you Sirspeedy, not an issue about my offer to drive. Yes I would be happy to shuffle some people around if they can get to me...(Staten Island). P.S. I also lived in the Great Kills area some years ago (before that I lived in Brooklyn). This would be wonderful if we all could meet and, Like Doug said, put faces to names. Doug, can you make it to the VTV?
Dan, you temp me to travel to Denver on your Turntable search!! Boy, what us audiophiles will do for the love of music!
As to Andrew....can you make it to NJ with all of us??? Love for you to join? And,like Dan said, we hope we did not hijack the thread. As a matter of fact let me add this thread and another one (about Scheu) really has my mind spinning. Do I go with Teres or Gilibier or the Scheu at a lower price or maybe stay with the VPI HR-X and 12.5. BUT I love the idea of one of those "intriguing" arms like the fabulous Schroder or Tr-Planer or Graham Phantom Oh madding....and I love THIS HOBBY!!!!!
Rick (RWD) |
P.S. I forgot to add the Shindo 301 Garrard that the great Tbg informed us all about. This is also very intriguing and I plan to set up a listing session with the distributor. Has anyone else heard this Table/arm set up?? |
RWD,funny you should mention the Garrard.I brought this table up to Sid,two days ago,as I printed out a review,for him,and his pal.He lamented that he owned it,years ago.He claimed he was really sorry that he had gotten rid of it.He meant it!
Also,Rick,Dan,Doug,Paul,Raul,Cello,Gmorris,Nsgarsh and any,and ALL of the guys I correspond with here---I'd love it if maybe you considered making the trip,to central New Jersey,for the VTV show.We could all meet,and possibly share some "cheap" wine together -:)May 6 is the day I attend with my group of fanatics.
I'd like to say There's an invite to hear my system,but my amp is out to Rowland,for maintenance/update,as well as my turntable,which is out for some newest mods.Sorry!
Oh,forgot to add my son graduates from medical school,in May,and ALL my family and inlaws are coming up,from Florida,at that time,so just to sneak out to the show is a miracle,in itself.
Best! |
Hey Sirspeedy (love to find out what the name means...although I think I know) what a wonderful idea!!!!!! Yes I am attending and I will contact the GREAT Sid and Dave. You are all more then welcomed to come by my home to listen to my system later that night or day...if you don't mind listening to a 25 year old speakers (Infinity RS 1-B's). I will certainly provide the wine and the single malt scotch. I used to LOVE the single stuff when I participated in a nip or two. Problem was....it was always a nip or twenty....know what I mean. So I've been "sober" for 11 years now and you know what...my system still sounds pretty good (LOL).
My home and listening room is not too large (will hold 6-8) but if the whether is nice that night we could always go out on the deck and have a drink (soda for me) and a few laughs. You all......are wonderful. Again, Sir....GREAT idea.
And now, I will be off with my son to the movies to is "16 Blocks" or "Inside Man". |
Those of you in north/central NJ are close to Nick Doshi, who built my amp and preamp. He's one of the most talented equipment designer/builders I ever expect to know. (Nick:Doug::Jose:Raul) I'm driving down tomorrow night to pick up the amp, but won't have time to stop by and annoy anyone else. :-(
Our standing invitation is open to SirFrog, Rwd or anyone else from the Soprano's State. I'd love to actually meet you guys. Heck, SirScorpion can check my antiskating any time he wants to.
Unfortunately I can't commit to VTV or any out of town event. I'm on active job search and have several promising interviews coming up. If one of them comes through I may be working lots of hours getting up to speed with a new organization.
|
RWD,I loved "16 Blocks",and "Inside Man"!Actually "V For Vendetta" was quite good too.I liked "Capote",and "Outback Mountain"(Oh,that's a steak place)as well.But the movie I'm really waiting for is "The Davinci Code"!!Read the book and WOW!I hope they don't screw up the movie.
Doug,I'm certain I would find NOTHING less than "perfect",from your set-up!I learned my lesson,and must admit to having a conscience.Though your record collection might be another matter.Especially if you ascribe to your pal Arthur's take,on the British Deccas vs the Dutch pressings -:)
Best! |
Guys,
Well I went with the Triplanar-7. I just set up my TT (Acoustic Signature Mambo) with the TP-7 and get this, a 40 doallr Grado!
I met my goal. It clearly beats my digital fromt end, which is pretty hot. Much better than I expected. Analog is where it's at.
I haven't even measured tracking force, anti-skate or optimized VTA! Imagine how much better it will get after I optimize the setup and put a real cartridge on it! I'm hooked! You guys will me seeing more threads from me.
I agree with Rwd. the commardarie in this section is incredible. I owe immense thanks and graditude to Doug, Thom Mackris, Raul, Thomasheissig and Cello. You have all been an immense help. Thank you all.
I will say that I didn't pass on the Schroeder because of actual perfromance or anything like that. It came down to budget and feedback on the arms based on my tastes. Also, since this is my first analog rig, I wanted to experience the importance and effect of changes of all of the key adjustments (SRA, VTF, anti-skate, azimuth, etc). Since the TP-7 makes it a little easier to evaluate this, it was the obvois choice. If VTA, forexample becomes less of a concern for me, I might choose amother arm.
Down the road I will try to sonically compare the Schroeder Ref with the TP-7 with Thom's help and see if I want to make a switch. At this point, I'm very happy with the overall result.
I will certainly try to make the show in New Jersey. I hope to meet some of you in person there. Aside from this opportunity, I would like to visit Doug and Thom who so gratiously extended invitations.
Andrew |
One more thing, please let me know if some of you will do another tonearm comparison like the one Cell perfromed. |
Aoliviero,
you won't regret it.
It is a top Tonarm.
regards Karl-Heinz |
Hey, lets not all leave without some "plans"...OK? Since we seem to be in somewhat of an agreement as to the May 6-7th weekend in NJ it might be good if someone (me??) coordinates this. In other words when and where do we meet. Do we stop for breakfast or lunch together? Do we just meet at a particular time and place? So here is my suggestion if it is OK with you all......here is my e-mail
RDAVERSA@FRAGOMEN.COM. If you are interested and would like to join us, you can e-mail me and add your suggestions. Then we could at least have some idea of who and where we will meet. Sounds like an idea?
Andrew, a quick question....did you get the arm Tri-Planer from Thom? |
Aoliviero,
Thanks for the update, and glad to see you agree we're not all crazy for preferring vinyl. Welcome to high end analog reproduction, there's nothing like it.
To have Cello, Raul, Thomasheisig, Thom Mackris and myself all thanked in the same sentence is also a wonderful thing, and perhaps a bit surprising to those who've been around here for a couple of years. We've all worked hard to remain true to our beliefs and experiences, which often differ, yet maintain a civil dialogue. As Rwd observed, a fine comraderie.
|
I too have enjoyed the camaraderie found in this thread.
We have taken different paths to in-home audio reproduction excellence; however, we certainly share the love of music, the discovery related to seeing and hearing new hardware and the joy of life.
My only regret is that I’m located in the Nation’s heartland – Indianapolis -- NOT near CT, or NY. I’m sure meeting and sharing an adult beverage with you guys would be a blast!
Being in Indy did provide me a central/pass-thru location that prompted Thom Mackris to offer an in-home audition of his Galibier TT, while on his way to N.Y. in June of 2004.
As this was my first foray into vinyl playback since foregoing same in the 1980’s, it was revelatory. Although, electronic equipment problems required that I pull out a long-ago mothballed Phase Linear Pre-Amp (grin), the sonics of Thom’s table, a Graham tonearm, and a Denon 103R couldn’t be dampened, and more than prompted me to order a Galibier Quattro, and Tri-Planar arm from Thom.
BTW, for those of you who haven’t had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Mackris, you’re missing the chance to meet quite a gentleman. I enjoyed his personality, and marveled at his audio acumen, and love of this hobby. I know it’s a cliché to say as a manufacturer someone’s not in it for the money, but my experience with Thom proves this to be indeed true. Of course compensation for his time and capital outlay is important and necessary, but I’m convinced that Thom’s primary reward is helping the world experience a closer connection to the music that he and we all so love and enjoy!
Since my Galibier purchase, CD’s have taken a very distant (read miles) back seat to vinyl. Fortunately, I kept all the lp’s from my youth; however, I’ve been able to almost double that collection since 2004.
Scanning web sites, and visiting lp stores has become a wonderful pastime. In fact, just this weekend, I found a two-platter lp of hits issued by a now defunct radio station here in Indy (WIFE) – the one that received most of my youthful listening. Spending a buck a piece for the vinyl, garnered me a free album cover, with great pictures of the city and D.J.’s of the day. Two bucks for a brief walk in the past was more than enough payback for the money spent, and I haven’t even spun the records yet!
Hope this finds all well and by all means, please keep up the entertaining, and educational posts…..Cheers, Mike |
Hi Mike.....the Galibier Quattro you puchased...isn't that the middle of the line of tables? I am also very interested in the Galibier and Teres. I am leaning toward the Ref Schroder but I could be convinced to try a Tri-Planer.
Rick (RWD) |
Rwd, don't do it. The Schroeder is harder to set up but clearly better. |
Hi Tbg...can you explain a bit more? Don't go with the Schroder....or do?? Sorry, it's Sunday night and my brain slows down at this time.....!
Rick (RWD) |
Rwd, you said, "...I could be convinced to try a Tri-Planer." I said don't do that.
As I said earlier, I had an early Tri-Planer and really thought it allowed dialing in the cartridge quite easily. It was also great to be able to set the VTA easily for individual records. I still have many records with the setting number written on them.
The Schroeder came much later and was not the Reference, although because it had the Reference arm tube, I thought it was. It came with my Loricraft 501. It was strikingly dynamic once I learned how to set properly the distance between the magnets, which is critical. I suspect the Schroeder is more rigid and hence the dynamics.
I now use the Shindo Labs, so I have no personal investment in either the Tri-Planer or the Schroeder. |
Rick,we are (Sid,Dave and some others)going out to dinner,after the show.In the local area,where I know of a KILLER restaurant.Of course you are invited!Also,if you join us,you will experience some of the FINEST "cheap wines" available,in the Central Jersey area.What a treat,heh?Only I must know two weeks in advance as I am making the reservations.Anyother guys I correspond with are automatically included,of course.BTW,this restaurant(not overpriced)is SO good,it is worth coming to,even without going to the show!
BTW--on a selfish note:-Go for the Schroder Ref.--You don't live too far from me,and this way I'll get a chance to hear one.I'd also consider helping to set it up,provided you tempt me with a "cheap" Pinot Noir!
You can E-mail my printing center--Sirspeedy 7068 @earthlink.net
Best! |
