Sanders Sound preamp vs. Innersound?

I am awaiting delivery of two Magtechs! On the truck now!

Rogers goal is to provide state of the art sound at a reasonable price. What he really does is provide state of the art products that just get out of the way of the sound, at affordable prices.

He has succeeded.

I see a SandersSound thread, and have to put in my .02. Not only are his products great, but Roger is a fine person to deal with. I owned one of his of his ESL amps (driving Quad ESL 63's), and was just curious about certain design aspects of the amp (no problems, really just curious). Roger and I spoke by phone at length and then he followed up by email. What a nice, nice man to deal with. This is probably 4 or 5 years ago already but Roger left an indelible impression on me.

Well, I can answer the question probably as good as anyone. I purchased the full Innersound system (speakers, amps, crossover/amp, phonostage and preamp) in November 2001 (and have just upraded the panels for such a rediculously low price, I am still amazed). They sound incredible. Roger has been there with me EVERY step of the way WHENEVER I needed him, call it Innersound, Innersound LLC, Innersound abc or Sanders Sound. You deal with Roger, you get him, his support and the best products on earth. I am incredibly fortunate to have had him recommended to me years ago. I could never think of changing my speakers, amps and preamp. (Maybe Sanders amps but that would be it).

Actually THAT question should only be asked of companies that offer a lifetime warranty. After all, lifetime is a very indefinite term. It could effectively turn out to be only 60 days.

Jtwrace, the same question can be asked of any small volume electronics manufacturer in high end audio.

If you are concerned about having a reliable long term warranty and don't mind the sound of harsh PA amplifiers, just buy a Bryston.

"Roger can now operate it as he deems best. For example, he can now offer lifetime warranties"

Doesn't the warranty expire when Roger decides to call it quits? Is there a long term plan in place for that?

This is off the Coda website, not trying to sell anything here, just saying what Coda says about manufacturing Innersound.

Innersound DPR-500
This unit is the finest example of this amplifier ever constructed. We should know we were the OEM supplier. It uses upgraded caps, and a more powerful transformer than was used on the original production units. This unit has been designed for 330 Watts RMS. This is a lower power than the original version into 8 Ohms in order and maximizes the ability of the amplifier to drive very low impedances. As a result this amp will double power into 4 and 2 Ohms and is stable into 1 Ohm. The original DPR-500 was optimized for electrostatic speakers and functioned best with loads 4 Ohms and above. With the demise of innersound this fantastic amp was left in a partially assembled state for some time until it was decided that it would be criminal not to complete it. To make it distinctive it was finished in a dark instrument grey as can be seen in the images.

The amp features :

* 330 Watts per channel into 8 Ohms
* 660 Watts per channel into 4 Ohms
* 1320 Watt per chhannel into 2 Ohms
Precision Bias Class A operation to 15 Watts,
sliding to Class AB at higher output level
* 12 VDC remote turn on (RJ45 connector)
* AC-coupled unbalanced input and true DC coupled balanced input
* Large Paddle Au Speaker Binding Posts
* Double-sided gold plated circuit boards
* 3.0 kVA toroidal power transformer
* Low-impedance power supply filter capacitor array
* Power supply status indicators
* 10 year warranty / 5 year transferable
* Designed, manufactured and assembled in the USA
1 Unit Available - Regular Price $14000 - Sale Price $9500

Soundlock, I'm becomming very interested in the Magtech. What amplifiers have you owned in the past?

So Sanders newish Magtech amplifier is a Coda design but using his own linear voltage regulator power supply?

Check out my Coda Windows 4 ad. Sorry to bother here I couldn't figure how to do a direct message.

I was curious as to the Coda/Innersound similarities in product design.

I know nothing of anything new coming from Roger, but up to at least very recentyly, he paid Coda for their technology and built his own goods using Coda boards and chassis. If you call Doug Dale at Coda, he will give you age and model comparisons based on the Coda board in the Sanders or Innersound products that you are looking at.
The current Coda stuff is very good indeed, it is worth the phone call as Coda sells manufacturer direct only in the US.

Here is a very brief review of the key elements of the Innersound/Sanders history:

Innersound, Inc. was founded in 1996 by Raj Varma who lived in the U.K. He hired Roger Sanders to design electrostatic speakers for him. Eventually, Mr. Varma expanded Roger's role to run Innersound in the U.S. while Mr. Varma manufactured computers in the U.K.

The key element here is that Roger was an employee of Innersound and never owned or controlled the company. So when Gary Leeds wanted to buy Innersound, the decision to sell was made by Mr. Varma -- Roger had no say in the matter.

When Gary Leeds bought Innersound, Inc. (February 2003), he dissolved the company and started a new one (Innersound LLC). He allowed Roger to become a minority share holder in the new company.

But as majority share holder, Mr. Leeds maintained total control of the company and once again, Roger could not manage the company in the manner he would have liked. This eventually led to Roger leaving Innersound, LLC in July of 2004.

After leaving Innersound, Roger started his own company (Sanders Sound Systems, LLC). Shortly thereafter, Innersound, LLC went out of business.

But before doing so, Mr. Leeds asked Roger to take care of Innersound's customers. Roger agreed to do so and Mr. Leeds transferred critical Innersound parts inventory to Roger so that he could service Innersound's products.

Note that although Roger does provide service for Innersound's products, Innersound's warranty is no longer valid since Innersound is out of business. In any case, enough time has passed that any warranty on Innersound's products has expired. Therefore, Innersound customers have to pay a modest price to have their equipment serviced by Sanders Sound Systems.

In summary, there have been three distinct companies. There was the original Innersound, Inc., which was owned by Raj Varma. Gary Leeds bought Innersound, Inc., dissolved it, and started a new company called Innersound, LLC. He eventually dissolved that as well.

Roger Sanders started Sanders Sound Systems, LLC. Although Roger worked for both of the Innersound companies, his company (Sanders Sound Systems) is not associated with either of the Innersound companies, both of whom no longer exist.

By having control if his own company, Roger can now operate it as he deems best. For example, he can now offer lifetime warranties and risk-free, 30-day, in-home trials. He also sells both factory direct and through selected dealers.

He makes all the engineering decisions based on performance, instead of on the approval of company owners. And he makes improvements in the design of his equipment when he wishes as technology advances.

Unlike the Innersound companies, Roger handles Sanders' company finances so that there is zero debt, there is cash in the bank, inventory in stock, and overhead costs are extremely low. As a result, Sanders Sound Systems can handle difficult economic times easily, successfully, and with greater security than his larger competitors.

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and by the way, Sanders Sound Systems is coming out with a new pre-amp ( which includes both line stage and phono stage preamplifiers). More details to follow as we get closer to release; but you can call Roger at anytime to get the details.
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Cheers,
Angela
Sanders Sound Systems

Isn't Sanders and Innersound the same? Did Sanders buy Innersound or something?

I had an Innersound iPre several years ago to go with my Innersound ESL300. I found the iPre to be extremely transparent, but would also describe it as sterile and uninvolving. Music just didn't sound that captivating played through it.

I've since moved on to other SS and tube pre's, and I'm much happier.

Just my 2 cents.

Michael

I have the Sanders Slim Linestage preamp and the Magtech amp. My Slim Linestage and Magtech combo is the best sound I have ever had. I previously had the McIntosh C220 preamp and the Parasound JC-2. IMHO, you will never be sorry with this combo. I am driving a pair of Duntech Sovereigns (big, big speakers) and I am in Audio Heaven. Happy listening.