Rudy Van Gelder on Vinyl

I'm sure some members will be moving Rudy's name to the Wall of Shame. 🤣

We all know that Rudy played his vinyl on a Dansett.

🤣

As a guy who still has the first vinyl record he ever bought in 1963, along with about 12,000 more, I should be insulted.  I also have significantly more dollars invested in analog playback equipment than in excellent digital equipment.  It is nevertheless true that digital at it's best is remarkably good.  In the recent past I have been particularly impressed with the improvement in the sound quality of the best PCM recordings.  In other words ordinary CDs.  Although vinyl usually still sounds better, the difference is narrowing and there are times when CDs win.  It seems clear that Rudy knew what he was talking about.

Remember, that interview with Rudy was 30 years ago ...

A rising tide floats all boats.  

And not one lie told. 

@billstevenson Bill, I’m like you in that I actually have more vinyl than anything else. However, in my case, my turntable is in need of repair and I have not bothered getting it fixed or replacing it. Vinyl was a means to an end, but in my humble opinion, a more rube Goldberg system couldn’t be arranged if you were trying. I had more than enough years of trying to be extra careful about caring for my records, cleaning, not getting fingerprints on them, worrying about whether the turntable was adjusted correctly. When the other media came along, I was more than happy to say goodbye to clicks and pops and scratches. I appreciate those who say it’s the ritual. That’s fine. As far as the “sound“, to me it was a high noise floor. I am more in the camp that says it’s the recording and the mastering that makes the sound.

@bruce19 I am firmly in that camp and anyone who isn't in that camp to me is either trolling or gullible (I know a bit antagonistic but honestly)

Vinyl will always be a-okay with me for the ritual of physical media listening and ownership pride but fidelity isn't something to look for in vinyl. 128kbps opus has more fidelity. 320kbps mp3 v0 has more fidelity

@bruce19, I can’t tell you how many times when I went crate digging I specifically looked for Rudy Van Gelder’s work. I’d say about half my album collection is from Verve, Riverside, CTI, KUDU and other Rudy Van Gelder produced vinyl.

It’s so interesting and funny you should mention this about the cd/album ’syndrome’. How many times over the years have we and others been through the selling of our albums when cd’s came out. Or even vice versa, some years ago too.

Not to mention some few years ago young(er) folks started getting into albums and buying turntables! And all of a sudden the album was back!

Now I think the reason cd’s are back in vogue is because of two things. High quality separate low priced streamers, and high quality separate low priced cd transports and dacs. And even though it’s in digital form, those mediums can be effortlessly connected to any analog rig. 

Check out this post I made a fews weeks ago.

tyray

707 posts

04-28-2025 at 09:05pm 

 

@hbarrel, yeah I don’t care about DSD cd’s (SACD) either. I’m just a used cd crate digger and could care less about an uber priced cd. I’ve got thousands of cd’s boxed up as I’ve been a phono head for some years now and like so many of us did some years ago sold our cd’s or albums, I did not, I held on to them.

I’m really curious to see the Laiv streamer when it comes out too. 

Here’s correspondence I got from Soon from Laiv about the Laiv pinout mode intelligent auto-configuration and passed the specs on to Brad:

Dear Tyray,

Good Day!

You can use Laiv mode for the I2S connection with the Shanling ET3 transport. We have many customers using the Shanling ET3 transport with our Laiv Harmony DAC via I2S and getting great results.
 

Nice right up @bruce19 

Rudy's work, legendary.  The world forever indebted to him for his excellence in preservation of truly great art.  His original masters will for decades be remastered.

The torch IMHO has been passed on to Bernie Grundman.  I can with confidence blindly pick off Rudy and Bernie mastering.  Oh, that sound.

May I add to this discussion in the spirit of expanding it, not wanting to in any way detract from the excellent points raised so far.  I share the enthusiasm for RVG, but want point out that he was not so good at recording piano and particularly in the early years, he was a mono guy, not a stereo guy.  The guy who figured out that stuff and who was better than he was Roy DuNann of Contemporary Records.  It is a historical fact that it was Roy DuNann who figured out how to properly use the new stereo format to place the musicians across the stage in believable alignment instead of in the then very popular ping pong effect.  He also figured out how to properly mic a piano using stereo techniques.  If you have access, listen to any of his recordings of Hampton Hawes or Andre Previn for example.  Adding to the discussion concerning analog vs. digital, I buy more cds than vinyl records these days.  My priority is to get the music I want, and for a collector of jazz, old jazz, re-issues make more sense.  And usually the cost factor makes the cd option the one for me.  Also, I do not stream.  For me, streaming is like a kiss on the telephone, you can’t feel it.  Plus, old jazz is not in great supply anyway.

@billstevenson, thank you for sharing! I have know idea who Roy DuNann of Contemporary Records and Hampton Hawes were. But I do know who Andre Previn was.

Your post made me think of when I was a kid how I marveled at the sound of those old Capitol Records recordings of Frank Sinatra. And what fascinated me was those old black and white photos of the recording studio.Talk about an acoustically and just as important, architecturally stunning venue to record in!

Capitol Records Studios Circa 1960

So if you can, would you give us your valued comments on Sinatra’s recording engineer, Voyle Gilmore. And tell us what you think about that recording venue and also, if you would, as I value the venue just as important as that massive tube rig and mics that were used for recording.

Because you took the time to introduce us to Roy DuNann, I stumbled upon this wonderful, marvelous and mind blowing site!

Roy DuNann, Engineer - From - The The Skeptical Audiophile - In Search of Better Records  

A couple a weeks ago I sold my everversolo DMP-8 streamer, but that doesn’t mean I’ll stop streaming. Im looking to get a stand alone streamer. Streaming kinda reminds me of FM on my stereo that no longer comes on integrated amps anymore in a way, which I’ve always liked. 

@billstevenson, as far as I’m concerned, you can post whatever and whenever you want... 

Barney Kessel from the album ’Carmen’

'Out of print Barney Kessel album. Swingin’ interpretation of the Bizet opera with stellar performances, featuring André Previn on keys. This is ripped from the original 1959 UK Mono pressing. Recorded by Roy DuNann.'

Very nice and swinging hard!

This is a very enlightening discussion.  Thank you all.  With respect to the Capitol recordings, they were also quite good.  Sinatra was famous for always being prepared when he entered the studio.  He did not like to have to record a song more than once.  Mr. one and done.  If you were not ready don't show up.  He did some of his best work with Nelson Riddle who was known to run a tight organization.  Also listen to any of the many George Shearing recordings on Capitol as well as Peggy Lee and June Christy.  Finally, their #1 star from that era was Nat Cole.

@billstevenson is correct about RVG shortcomings with piano miking.  Everything else he seemed to have gotten right.  I would add that some bass player miking was also a bit off, distant.  Seemed as if the bass players were sometimes down the hall.

Contemporary Records is quite good as I've several.  Must admit ignorant to Roy DuNann.  Thank you Roy.  I've several Previn recordings from Contemporary.  What a beast he was!