@Sunnyjim / Anyone Else RE: Sphinx vs. Cronus Magnum:
Anyone heard both and have a minute to describe the key differences in sound? |
Rogues new preamp.
http://www.rogueaudio.com/New.htm#shows |
Anyone hear of a new preamp from rogue? A buddies of mine said he had read something a month ago and I cant find anything . He said it wasnt the Athena or hera 2 |
Looking for a rogue 99 pre in NJ/NY area to do a comparison between the standard my 99 Mag and Super mag . I loved my Magnum then upgraded it to SM status . Now I'm curious as to what the differences are and plan to do a live comparison. |
Bad Match Warning for Rogue 99
I had recently bought and installed with great success some small signal 12AU7/ 12AX7 tubes in my Rogue ares and EE minimax phono and pre so it was with great anticipation that I bought a set of 4 Psvane CV181.
Well after letting them sit for a week I installed them and lit them up over night. Morning came turned on the Power amps and left everything warming up for the afternoon and time to try them came and well lets just say Disappointing. The hum was noticeable even at fairly low levels Sound was ok but they hadn't opened up yet. Wondering if it could be that the cover is off? Well lets put it on . Wait It doesn't fit Tubes are to tall . Not a good thing . Contact seller They are willing to give me new tubes that will also not fit. So options are Sell them at a lost or spend more and buy a second cover popping holes on the mesh and trying that. Any Ideas where I might find one . Going to contact Mark one of these days to see if he has a damaged one for cheap . I think its the tube not the cover . all suggestions welcome . BTW Very happy with Rogue Gear which consist of the Ares, 99 Super Mag and 180 Mags . Front end pieces are Shelter 901 on VPI HR-X and a Eastern Electric Minimax CD . |
@Findog,
The hum increasing with pre-amp volume would seem to indicate that the problem is not the amp. It could be a ground loop. |
Thanks, Daverz, but I have used some fine interconnects such a Kimber Hero and cables from Bob's Devices. |
@findog, sounds like badly shielded interconnects. |
Hello, I have a Titan Atlas magnum with kt120 tubes and been noticing a hum from the speakers and when the preamp volume is increased the hum increases. Also, sometimes I hear radio signals when I turn to high volumes with no music to test what is causing the hum. The amp has never been quiet - is that Normal - but wondering if anyone has an idea what is causing and how to eliminate it?
Thanks. |
Owned Metis pre for over a year now. Have found better NOS tubes can really improve sound. Am wondering if anyone has experience with Magnum upgrade results. Can't decide yet whether to dump money in Metis upgrade or just upgrade pre to say something like the mystere ca21. Like the sound of tubes through my Krell and Martin Logans. Anyone with magnum upgrade comments? |
New Rogue owner here. In the last few months I have bought a 99 Magnum pre and a 88 amp (Probably from one of you!).
For a relatively small investment, I am extremely happy. This has been a great way to get into tube gear. I can't say anything new that hasn't already been said a million times before, but so far so good.
I'm hoping Santa will upgrade my 99 to Super Magnum status and my 88 to a Stereo 90 for Christmas. I swear after that I'm done...............Yeah right........ |
Much thanks: to Jerryp and Roscoe. It was Mike O'Brien I spoke to. I did not know about the New York show, so he may have been distracted by show goers and dealers yacking away at him
I gratefully give back the thread to the original poster. Thank you, and good night!! Jimbo |
The remote features on all Rogue products are minimal. Volume and maybe mute. Looks like both of the units you are considering only have volume control on the remote. Hope this helps. I suggest calling after the NY show and asking about the price difference. I think the cost of a tube output section is most of the answer. |
Who did you hear back from at Rogue? Mark O'Brian often replies to the e-mails sent to them, but he may be at the NYC Audio Show.
Might be worth a follow-up e-mail, or a phone call to Rogue (after the NYC show is over). |
Rosecoeii, Thank you for the comments and advice. I happened to fire off an e-mail to Rogue after reading your message yesterday, and ask them about the Cronos Magnum integrated which is $2295 retail. This is a thousand dollars more than new Sphinx.
Well, the response I got was less than informative about features of the supplied remote, the phono stage, and dynamic power. I felt like saying so what the f--k makes this integrated worth a $1000 more?????
I was told you need to rebias the unit. Big deal!!! Maybe, some Rogue owners of the CM or yourself can enlighten me as to the "possible" difference between the CM and Sphinx, considering the CM prepreceded the new hybrid. Thanks |
Well I only heard the Acoustic Zens in a show setting, but they were great sounding with the tube amps they were paired with. I would try a tube amp first based on that experience. Rogue tube amps have great bass in my experience. And local Rogue dealers suggested to me that they liked the tubed units better. Based on all of this, I'd try a tube design before a hybrid.
Or if you have a Rogue dealer locally, maybe try to audition both? Perhaps an online Rogue dealer would also give you that option. If not, I would go with tube units first. Some Rogue lovers on Audio Asylum are less enamoured with the hybrids compared to all tube units. |
To Roscoeii. When you say the Acoustic Zen Adagios sounded better with tube amps,how would you describe the sound?? Was the bass taut and dynamic with no compression?? Were the highs smooth, and not edgy or forward.
Currently, I am using a Bel Canto PRe3 line stage and a pair Red Dragon M-500 digital mono blocks, the sound is good to very good, but I believe the speaker can sound smoother, and the bass quicker and tighter with better amplification. The RD amps have unconventional speaker connectors which prevent use of banana plugs or even spades without any security of coming lose This has become a pain in the ass and back for me who must fumble around behind the audio rack to secure them, and later reach for the Ben-Gay and Jack Daniels. I want to eliminate many of these boxes, including my TT and phono line stage... and go simple but high quality.
However, the major question is: is a tube integrated going to best my current separates. The Bel Canto PRe3 is very good, but the Red Dragon monoblocks are just average, and but for the money a great deal.
Do you think the Rogue Magnum Cronos integrated is better than the "The Sphinx"?? They are both the same power. I be interested in the further opinions of Rogue devotees on thess two pieces without distracting from the theme of the thread which is over 10 years old. Thank you, Jimmy |
I heard the Sphinx in an audio shop here in Chicago. And it sounded great. A very impressive unit for the price.
Though, that said, I loved the sound of the Acoustic Zens I heard at Axpona with the tube amps they were paired with. I personally would go with a tubed integrated with the Acoustic Zens. The Rogue tube integrateds aren't too much more than the Sphinx. I would personally use the Sphinx much like I used my Butler 2250: for speakers that are less efficient and thus might make appropriate all-tibe gear cost prohibitive. But for a speaker at 90dB and up I would go all tube instead of hybrid if you are looking for some tube sound. |
It is good to see so many Rogue owners. It surely indicates a vote of confidence for the product.
I don't want to high-jack the thread, but has anyone auditioned or owned the new Rogue Sphinx integrated amp (100 RMS) I am considering downsizing again, and want to buy a first rate IA with above average phono stage for possible later analog restart Will appreciate any comments. My speakers are Acoustic Zen Adagios. |
Opinions about Apollos, please. |
I have:
Vandersteen 2ce's with a pair of W2 subwoofers
rega RP1 with Ortofon Blue
Rega Apollo R
Working with my local store and looking at Rouge.
Cronus 2300.00
Atlas/Metis 3500.00
Audio 99 and M150's used 5000.00
I went in to look at differences of first two and noticed used.
This will probably be my last Pre/Amp upgrade ever.
My questions are as I have never owned tube equipment.
Is there a major cost of replacing tubes over time? I probably will always be a stock tube person as I am the kind of guy who wants to just listen.
Is there a MAJOR difference in Cronus vs Atlas / Metis sound? The store I am loyal to does not have the best auditioning space.
Is the 99 / M150's a great deal or just an okay deal in your opinion? Seems to me it is like getting a "free" preamp. They are 3 years old with "low" hours on tubes. They were bought at same store and customer upgraded tubes.
Thanks for your opinions |
Thanks for the prompt response Rmar. I should have mentioned mine is a line only preamp. I will contact Mark about buying a set of the NOS Sylvania tubes. I am using NOS GE 6SN& tubes now. |
Jperry,
Short answer- This preamp really needs NOS tubes in the line stage.
I'm presently using what are suppose to be 60's Russian 6sn7's. I could live with these, but I asked Mark at Rogue Audio (how cool is it when the CEO answers the phone!) to send me a quad of Sylvania 6sn7's when they become available, and I'll keep the Russians as backup.
I put 40 hours on a quad of new Sino 6sn7's (long story) but that's all my ears could take. In my system, with mostly not very well recorded material (50's and 60's blues, R&B, and R&R) they sounded...harsh and two dimensional.
The phono board came with what might be Siemens or Phillips 12ax7's (triangle etched in the base at the center between the pins) in the first gain stage, and Sylvania 5963's (or 5814's) in output stage. I suspect that these were the original tubes from the year of manufacture (about 2000).
I checked my tool box (I'm a retired musician) and put in a pair of NIB 70's RCA 12au7's with good results. I also tried a couple NIB Amperex (yellow box made in West Germany)12ax7's in the first stage, but haven't had time for critical listening of that change yet. Those changes did reduce the noise slightly. I also have about six RCA and Japan NIB 12ax7's on hand, but I'm getting pretty tired of playing with tubes, and ready to get this sorted, and start paying attention to the music. |
Rmar, what tubes are you using in your Rogue 99? Also what gain setting do you use. |
Roscoeiii,
The Omen is 97dB SPL @ 1W at 12 ohms; connected at the 8 ohm tap it's probably about 94 db. Sitting far-field, I'd guess that at my usual 90 db listening level the amp is cruising at about 5 watts, with 10db peaks asking for about 50 watts, which leaves about 3db headroom.
WRT noise- dead quiet with my ear at the speaker at the above listening level through the line level input (better than the old amps), with some hum and tube rush from the phono input (90's Planar 2 and new Elys 2).
With good tubes, the Rogue 99 magnum is very musical and refined.
BTW, Zu has a sale on the Soul Mark.II until 4-15. $1995. |
The M120's run so hot because they're a cathode bias design. It's tough to combine high-power cathode bias and PCB without issue. Such a configuration is better served by point-to-point wiring.
The current model Rogue amps all use fixed/adjustable bias and thus provide higher power output with lower heat. They're extremely reliable, and sound excellent. The only operational issues I've ever heard of from the current models were due to bad batches/runs of New Sensor output tubes (particularly the EH KT88 a few years back). I had an EH KT90 short out 2 years ago. The KT120 is a far better sounding tube, and has proven reliable.
As for combining lots of power with efficiency, I run KT120's in Apollo monoblocks (very high gain/sensitivity, and almost 300 Watts/ch) into true 96dB/Watt speakers (not from an overly optimistic dB/Watt rating like some). The amps themselves (with preamp muted) are dead quiet. My preamp is high gain (> 20dB) so it contributes a tiny bit of tube noise, since the downstream gear is so highly sensitive. The vast majority of noise comes from the MC phono stage, and of course there's a big difference here between various makes/models. Mainly, you just have to watch overall active system gain vs. speaker sensitivity. An Atlas with Zu Omens shouldn't have noise issues unless the upstream gear is just wacky. |
Wow, KT 120s for Zu. Thats a lot of power. Any issues with tube related noise out of those super efficient speakers? |
My neighbor has the 120's. They run really hot. From everything I've read, their newer power amps are very reliable.
I bought an 88 about ten years ago. It still has the original tubes, and has been trouble free except for a 7 year old bridge rectifier that Mark sent me N/C. It took me about 10 minutes to replace it. My 66 Magnum has been trouble free.
I've upgrade both of the above this year to a 13 year old 99 magnum, and a new Atlas Magnum (kt120's), driving Zu Omns. This house is a rockin'! |
I believe the 120s were an isolated issue. from talking to mark and reading other post I have no reason to think this occurs in any of their other amps . I would call Mark at Rogue if you have any concerns. |
Are Rogue Titan series ampls/integrates more stable than the M120s
in terms of tube life and shorts? |
Once I break in the Gold Lions I would like to try some 6L6 . I really like the (flying C) SVKT88. Always looking to match the sound I got from my old Czech Tesla. |
Thanks for the information. I think the V4 pairs well with the Rogue 99. The Rogue update was a plus.
I have a set of KT 77 tubes and I am going to try them in the V4. I am hoping for something between the EL34 lushness and drive of the KT88. |
The quicksilver was a more traditional "tube" sound Very lush and smooth. The preamp was a bit dull if not matched well (Dynaco st70) But sounded downright exciting with my brothers Onkyo M504 and the Alisons CD9s . I liked them very much but wanted something with a bit more detail and bottom end grunt. would love to try the V4s still. |
The quicksilver was a more traditional "tube" sound Very lush and smooth. The preamp was a bit dull if not matched well (Dynaco st70) But sounded downright exciting with my brothers Onkyo M504 and the Alisons CD9s . I liked them very much but wanted something with a bit more detail and bottom end grunt. would love to try the V4s still. |
Ratbbb2,
How would you compare your former QS setup to your current Rogue seup?
Thanks. |
V4s have always been on my short list of wish to own. I had the Quick silfer line stage and KT88s prior to the Rogues Nice Tube sound , compared to rogues "CrossOver" sound .
Just ordered the 99 Upgrade and decided on the 180s so we shall see. |
I just had my 99 preamp upgraded from magnum to Super Magnum. A little more quiet with better detail.
I use Quicksilver v-4 amps. Very easy on tubes as well as sounding great. |
I have heard each of the amps you mentioned. The 180s are quieter and faster than the 150s, and are a significant upgrade. It's been too long since I heard the 120s to comment. |
Genelex Gold Lion KT-77's to replace the stock Svetlana EL-34's in my Cronus (non-Magnum Version.) Wonderful improvement. |
Hello new on this forum but have been a rogue owner and audiogon member for ten years or so. After a bad tube and reading some Super Magnum info I've taken my M120 and 99 into rogue for some repair and updating. The 99 is going from magnum to Super mag, but not sure about the M120 they can get repaired but if I'm going to update now would be the time. So question would be who's compared the 120 to 150 and or the 180. and what are your thoughts on the differences . The ONLY compliant have had with any of the Rogue gear is how hard the M120s are on tubes I've had some very pricey tubes go bad prematurely and while it could be 100% on the tubes quality control. I have to wonder if the amps would be a bit easier on them could I still have those great sounding Tesla (KR-KT88) (now known as EAT). |
Reviewer, Kal Rubinson has done much tube-rolling on Rogue gear. His writings can be found over on Audio Asylum.
Happy Listening! |
Thanks, Joeinid. I tried that and it didn't fix the hum. I think it is the just the amp. I can't hear the hum from my listening position. I've read that tube amps commonly do make some sound through the speakers. |
It's probably a ground loop hum. I had something like that on the same amp (as well as many others) and a cheater plug (3 prong into 2 adapter on the AC cord) solved the issue. Try the amp first, then the preamp and so on.
Good luck. |
Hello, does anyone find that the atlas magnum amp produces a hum through the speakers when paired with the kt120s? I just put these tubes in my titan atlas magnum and there is a hum through the speakers even with nothing else plugged in. I didn't notice it with the kt90s. I use a fairly cheap power strip with audioquest power and speaker cables and dynaudio excite x16s. When the preamp is also plugged in the hum does not fluctuate with volume control. Is this a ground loop or noise from the amp? Can it be quieted? Thanks. |
Mines an Atlas..... almost a Magnum. Made by Mark special for Quad ESL57s. I'm so happy. Tried a dozen or so other amps. Nothing has even come close in my system. |
Hello, did anytone who owns a HERA preamp buy longer cables adn have 3 of the shorther cables they dont need (or any length speare cables)? |
I have a Tempest MKI. Have been using Electro Hamonix tubes without problems for years. I bought a quad set of Gold Lions and they showed red plates after just a few minutes. Everything measures correctly per Rogue and I have checked every resistor around the tube sockets and they measure within tolerance. Cathode resistors are showing about 55 Volts droped across 660 Ohms for 83 milliamps. I tried adding resistance to the Cathode as high as 990 ohms without success. Any similar experiences? Rogue recommends I upgrade to the MKII. Anyone want to donate $1K? |
Are any of you guys using the Magnum 99 pre? If yes, please give a short review of it. Thanks |
I am running Chinese KT88s with my 88/99 combo(neither upgraded to Magnum) and want to tame the highs abit and fill out the lower mids. My Meadowlark Shearwaters give wonderful detail but the highs are a touch too bright. Any suggestions ? I've heard the ElectroHarmonix 6550s are supposed to be nice with this combo. |
My Rogue 99 is upgraded to the Magnum and is being shipped to me soon! Man, I can't wait! Mark recommended from 100-200 hrs. of break in. How do the Russian nos tubes sound in the Rogue? |
