Hi Michelzay.
Very interesting what you have said about IeGo products regarding there low costs, differents base metals for conductors and the designers( ex Furutech`s).I`ll be very interested in reading your experience with these AC connectors.Also I`ll be very curious when you´ll try the silver conductors plated with gold or rhodium.It is very useful to know about other brands that makes high quality products with and affordable price, specially in this hobby that gets very expensive anytime you want some changement in the sound.I agree with you in that not all expensive products neccessary makes a relevant changement.So this brand is to be taken into account as well.Cheers!Raf |
Hi Audiolabyrinth.
Interesting news about the 30amp breaker for your Krell 700cx power amp.Current is a crucial factor for any Hi End audio system.Have you looked this video about Greek audiophlies??I never forgot what one guy said.....^Electricity is 50% of the sound^Please take a look at it.Cheers.Raf
http://youtu.be/xs1aUws0Lrs |
Melbguy1, I gave up on having my system on Audiogon. It kept getting deleted and screwed up. Here is my system.
Associated Equipment
Digital Front End
Empirical Audio Apple Mac Mini (mod.) with a raid TuneBank, now playing double DSD
BMC PureDac
Analog Front End
Nantais Lenco L78 with Ikeda 407CR1 long tone arm and 9TT cartridge
B.M.C. MCCI phono stage
Dalby D7 Record Stabilizer
Amplification
Robert Koda Takumi K10 preamp
Exemplar XP-2 Mk II balance tube line stage
LSA Statement Plus stereo amplifier
B.M.C. M2 mono block amplifiers
H-cat P-12R X9 linestage
H-cat DF-100.2 stereo amplifier
Loudspeakers
B.M.C. Arcadia speakers
LSA1 Statement speakers
Cabling
High Fidelity CT-1 Ultimate Reference full loom
Exemplar Audio Silver Portal balanced & single-ended ics
BMC PureUSB1 Active USB cable
Entreq Audio Firewire and USB cables
High Fidelity Ultimate Reference Rhodium power cords
Exemplar Portal charged power cords
Accessories
TriPoint Troy Signature with Troy power cord and Troy SE grounding wires (3)
High Fidelity Magnetic WaveGuide power filter ac filter (helix)
Star Sound Tech Apprentice Platforms (7)
StillPoints Racks (2) with Grids, Component Stands, Ultra Five, SS, and Mini isolation feet
Zilplex resonators room treatment
Anti-Vibration-Magic (AVM) paint |
Tbg, very nice, however, this seem's to be two system's?, also, you did not list your wpo's, which considering who you are talking to, you should. |
Audiolabyrinth, please tell me what wpos are.
I guess I could put two systems together but I only have one real listening room. I know many with two if not three listening rooms. |
Hi TPG, wpo means, wall power outlet's, you do have alot of equipment, you seem to love music as I do considering your investment, you must have system there in New Mexico?, if not, from what I read, you certainly could have a system there permently, cheers. |
Audiolabyrinth, presently in NM I have the LSA speakers, stands for them and a H-Cat preamp and amp. I also have Zilplexes which have made the tiny 10 x 13 x 8' room usable. The rest of my system when I'm there has to be shipped or transported from Texas and then back. I really can only do x versus y reviews there. |
TBG, very impresive, I was also saying, you should list that you have 10 furutech GTX-D R's wpo's in your system equipment compilation you have, which is also impresive, this show's you are convinced enough that the furutech GTX-D R was better to your listening tast that you bought many of them, cheers |
Audiolabyrinth, at CES I talked with Furutech about why they did not have beryllium copper GTX-Ds. The answer was conductivity. I asked whether solid copper with gold or rhodium plating was better. He said yes, if it was thin plating. My present wall plug is an R0 which is solid beryllium copper. I am awaiting another GTX-Dr for it. |
TBG, I am still burning in my second wpo, damn, the first one does not have 400 hrs on it yet, however, I am happy to tell you that the second one has 234 hrs as of friday, I do 10 to 13 hrs a day, the sound has dramtically improved the last two day's, each time I get impressed, it gets better from there, I tell you Norm, that single pole 30 amp breaker I put on the amp that took 17 hrs to burn in made my sound incredible for $5.00, best $5.00 I ever spent in my life, really!, a 20 amp breaker must have been chocking this amp, speed and dynamics, and open sound is off the chart's, I thought about what you said to me Norm about the stock power cable on the amp, I believe putting a furutech FI-50 R on that may do really good? |
Hi Dear fellows.
So according to what Tbg was told at CES copper is the best conductor material for any outlet, connector etc etc and the plating is only the final touch that could give you either bigger mids, velvety character or higher resolution in the upper frequencies and dark background depending on your choice if gold or rhodium plating and of course the interaction with the components in each system.I think in future I `ll try a gtxd R.I`m a bit afraid that my system prefers gold versus rhodium( I have tried a FI 11 N 1 R connector in my Krell kav 300 cd player and it was a disaster as a result and I ended up with the gold version)So may be, as Michelzay said before, for feeding power conditionners rhodium is better than gold.So I think it will be my next try.Any other comments will be appreciated.Cheers!Raf |
Rafael0054, I had always thought that any plating had adverse effects on sound. I have two quite technically competent friends with the one hating rhodium and one loving it. I have no negative reactions to rhodium on power cords or outlets. I do have my continued negative reaction to gold wires or gold plating. With no pun intended, gold in ics, on ac power anywhere, and for speaker wires always has a glow to it that is slow and smeared.
The real question is whether or not there is anything better than rhodium. What about platinum, silver, palladium. We all know that copper oxide is not very conductive.
Right now I'm sticking with rhodium on the HFC power cords and waveguided power center and no gold anywhere. |
Audiolabyrinth, ironically, when I put my dedicated line in 26 years ago, I had big tube amps and on turn on they kept tripping the 20 amp breakers. The electrician warned me about 30 amp breakers and I had them installed.
I think a furutech fi-50(r) is what the female output connection on the HFC pcs was before modification. |
TBG, are you talking about the IEC end of the HF power cable?, intersting, what modification was done? |
Hi TBG, Are you talking about the IEC end of the HF power cable?, interesting, Do you know what modification was done? |
The F1/M1 from Oyaide are superior to the Furutech F50. I own them both, bu later I will sell the Furutech for the M1/F1 combo. It is superior in dynamics and in details as well. As you know only the best is good enough. Everything what is less, doesn't count in my world! |
Bo1972, might I ask how you came to this conclusion? Personally I have liked the Oyaides R0 more than the R1. |
I have the same powercord with Furutech F50 and the other with Oyaide F1/M1. Big difference in dynamics and details. |
Bo1972, are the pcs otherwise identical?
Audiolabyrinth, I have not taken them apart, but the IEC plug is much longer and probably contains many magnets.
My fear in taking them apart is whether I could get put back together. |
I have some demo KLEI Copper Harmony RCAs with Mogami 2549 for sale at a very reasonable price if anyone is interested in trying them. PM me if you are interested... |
TBG, Oh no, I would not take any thing apart, good call, something like this carrol power cord on the krell is easy to do, I will not take the Tara power cord apart either, life time warranty, do not want to void that out. |
Bo1972 my Tara power cord has the oyaide second from the best by them IEC and wall plug, sound's really good, Oyaide is a great company, I will Talk to chris Vanhause of vh-audio and get his opinion before I do a final move here, thank's for chiming in. |
100% identical, even the length is the same. |
01-19-15: Bo1972
100% identical, even the length is the same. Yeah I plan on upgrading all my Jorma Prime pc's at some stage with Oyaide F1/M1 connectors. The Prime pc's are factory terminated with Oyaide P-004/C-004 connectors which are very good. The combination of platinum and palladium-plated beryllium copper with the Furutech GTX-D(G) should be a great combo in my ss system. |
Bo1972, what is the material made of on the oyaide F1/M1, Gold, Rhodium, pallidium,copper, what about the houseing too? |
It is made of Beryllium copper. The other shielding is from alluminum.
I compared the 004 with the M1/F1. I was amazed how much more dynamics the M1/F1 had. The shielding is a very important part for the difference. The 004 has a simple shielding of plastic.
When I compare the F1/M1 with the Oyaide I have almost the same outcome. I guess that the shielding is an important part for the reason that the M1/F1 outperforms the Furutech.
The problem is that Oyaide is still difficult to get. These days Purist Audio Design uses Wattgate connectors. Only becauae they had problems to get enough connectors. Audioquest stopped with Oyaide for the same reasons.
But for a perfectionist I am only interested in the F1/M1. For me there is not room for less. That will be a no go. But Jim from Purist Audio always give F. idiots like me the option to get it with Oyaide plugs. That is a nice thing. |
Thanks for your feedback Bol on the Oyaide P-004 vs M1 connectors. I plan on getting 3 of my Jorma pc's re-terminated initially, and a 4th pc upgraded later in the year. But not cheap, VH Audio are asking $345 for a single cryo'd M1! |
I agree with Melbguy1, +1 thankyou for your feedback, Bo1972, I have the p-079 wall plug and IEC on the Tara lab's cobalt power cord, sound's really dynamic, does all the audiophile attribute's very good, I am impressed with the oyaide wall plug's and IEC's, however, nothing I have tried beat's out the furutech GTX-D wpo's! |
Bo1972, Are you saying that the oyaide m-1 has organic, warm, sweet full treble detail with air that is better than the furutech fI-50m?, does this oyaide better the furutech with this type of sound? |
Bol, you have a long equipment list with some expensive gear in their. The BMC Arcadia's are a good example & look impressive. Why such a myriad list of gear? I'm kind of going in the opposite direction & trying to reduce my box count, |
I think the Furutech is a little warmer. But....to all other parts the F1/M1 outperforms the Furutech connectors.
I would never choose for a speaker with low freq bass units on the side. For example: about 5 weeks ago I auditioned the Rockport Aquila. When we played Jacintha: I'm in the mood for love I got irritated by the double bass. During the solo you could hear that when he got to the lower region of the bass the physical focus got blury. Beside this you often get more acoustic limitations.
I don't use Myriad. Soon my Onkyo 5509 will be modified. We will do the same modification like this oen:
https://upgradecompany.com/upgrade-company-products/upgrade-company-onkyo/product/2-onkyo-pr-sc-5530-thx-ultra-2-certified-av-controller-with-signature-edition-upgrade
The 5509 is superior to the 5530. We also will change the chips and some electronic parts. I goes even further than this one. 4 weeks ago we did a shootout against the Audio Research Ref5SE. We were amazef how much more details the Onkyo with my way of Pro measurment has. The level of blacks was also superior. The stage was a lot deeper and wider. Instruments and voices were also more physical. The articulation of voices was also superior with the 5509.
I already outperformed my old Pass XP-20 with ease. Desmond from Pass Labs know's the whole story. This week he send me an email that he probable will buy a 5509 as well to test.
Audio is always about the best. What gives the best endresults. With my X350.5 I can outperform the XP-20 with ease with the 5509.
Without my pro measurement it is useless. That is why we will use highend parts to get an even higher result. I even think i can outperform pre amps of above 30.000 dollar. I will find some highend pre amps to proof that I a m right. Because audio is all about facts and proof.
In about 4 weeks I will recieve a modified 5509. I will put my Pro measurement on it so I can compare it against mine.
In the last weeks I have had many people visiting my house. I think we will have a new statement in sound. I want to prrof this. Now it are words overhere, but I will proof with sound that it is exactly as I wrote here. |
Melbguy1 and Bo1972, I said I was going to E-mail Chris venhaus at vh-audio about wall plug's, here is his quick response, quote-
Chris Venhaus
In my experience, the FI-50 is the better connector. Pure copper is much more conductive than Beryllium copper. Dont get me wrong, the M1/F1 combo is very nice, but for natural presentation and superb micro/macro dynamics, I prefer the FI-50. In fact, Id take the FI-28 IEC over the F1. That said, I can see where the M1/F1 might be very synergistic for some peoples systems, and as is the case with many parts/components in this hobby- everyones opinion can be different, and also be correct ;-)
I just think the FI-50 offers a bit better value, as well.
Best regards,
Chris VenHaus
VH Audio, Inc: www.vhaudio.com
V-Cap: www.v-cap.com
|
Bo1972, which furutech FI-50M did you have, Gold or the Rhodium?, this make's a substantial difference. |
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LOL! Bo, Good thing I use all Rhodium!, hey, which wall plug under discussion here sounded the most transparent? |
@Bol, first of all just to correct you, I used the word "myriad" in the literal sense. I wasn't referring to the UK brand Myryad fyi. 01-22-15: Bo1972
gold is for dummies!! Really? Since Audiolabyrinth cited Chris from VH Audio, here are comments from Chris regarding Furutech Copper/Gold vs Copper/Rhodium - Rhodium tends to do better with tubed gear
than SS or digital. I use Rhodium on my tubed gear, and Gold on my SS and digital. I'd still recommend the Gold, unless you feel your system is leaning towards too much warmth right now. There is NOT a drastic difference between these,
despite the plating difference. The major mojo is in the base metal (pure copper), and the slight lean towards warmth vs resolution in the gold vs rhodium (respectively) is more related to a slight 'shade' vs night/day difference. Don't think you can go wrong with either. I use both in my own system I think either will be an improvement, but believe if you are currently a bit too 'warm', or don't want to 'risk' going any warmer, then Rhodium would be the way to go. If, however, you are happy with where things are at (tonally), and you are looking to step up in resolution, dynamics, and better imaging, then the Gold will be terrific. I don't think you can go wrong with either. If you want to maintain the tonal balance of your system, I'd still recommend the Gold. You're already using a decent receptacle in the R1, so you don't already have 'bright' receptacles to correct. I maintain that either the Gold or Rhodium will provide a significant improvement over what you have, though, and that you really can't go wrong with either. Gold = ever so slightly towards warmer side of dead-neutral, and rhodium is ever-so-slightly on transparency side. I could probably find just as many reviews in my e-mail inbox that rave about the gold version, as well. My strong preference is for gold in SS and digital sources. The difference between the gold and rhodium are far less in magnitude than say the difference between gold/rhodium in brass/bronze connectors. I suspect this is because the base metal (copper) dominates the sound in the GTX, whereas the plating has more influence when on brass/bronze. This is why I mentioned that no matter which version you chose, youll likely be extremely happy with the improvement. And this response from a customer of Chris after he mentioned I was having trouble deciding between Rhodium and Gold - In my opinion your customer would hear the differences between the two with any of the Magico speakers. I believe that he might mirror my own experiences using his speakers. The Gold hands down, was the more natural of the two in my system. The tone and timbre were perfect and could not be any better. It is perfect. The Rhodium seemed to me to affect the naturalness of the tone and timbre slightly and seemed to always call my attention to it.
Both outlets were the same in other regards. There was no more detail with the Rhodium than with the Gold. The improved solidity of musical images was the same with both. Lowered noise floor was the same with both compared to my previous outlet the Oyaide R-1. |
Hi Melbguy1, I do not understand why Chris said he uses both the gold and Rhodium in his system, I tried that, it was horrible!, they worked against each other, a real train wreck, weeks of testing revealed someone can only use one version or the other through out a system, atleast that is what happened to my system any way, also, Chris was dead wrong about what his recommendation's were for my system, The Rhodium over and over again was the clear winner on my solid state amp and tube/solid state Hybred digital cd-player that run's direct to amplification, extrodinary transparent hugely, I do not believe at this point untill I do more auditioning that one would have to use the same wall plug's through out, just the wpo's. |
When you compare the Oyaide with gold against the 004/M1 the difference is quite clear!!
The Wattgate gold can even sound a little harsh sometimes! |
Bo1972, that was some of the funniest humor from you in a long time, I get it!,you said, The difference is quite clear!! |
Bo1972, I admire your patience with assessing outlets and plugs. For once I wish there was total agreement on these. |
I compare many, and always keep the one who are the best. I am not brand loyal. I am loyal always to the best! |
01-23-15: Bo1972
When you compare the Oyaide with gold against the 004/M1 the difference is quite clear!! Bo1, I think you completely missed my point. I provided a detailed commentary supporting the view there is in fact a small, not night/day difference between the FURUTECH copper/rhodium and copper/gold products given a tonally neutral system. I don't doubt there is a clear difference between the Oyaide P-004/M1, but you are talking about apples vs oranges. Firstly the Oyaide P-004 is a lower range connector compared to the M1. And secondly, Furutech's FI-50M(G) is much superior imho to any Oyaide gold connector due to their superior materials, design and metallurgy. As far as the FI-50 and M1 goes, Chris expressed a personal view that he prefers the FI-50, but noted the M1 is a very good connector. He also qualified that in some systems, the M1 may have better synergy (eg: if you're running R1's). In my ss/digital system, I would likely obtain better synergy using FI-50M(G)'s as i'm already running a GTX-D(G) wpo. I'll have to have a think about that one as both are excellent connectors. |
01-23-15: Audiolabyrinth
Hi Melbguy1, I do not understand why Chris said he uses both the gold and Rhodium in his system, I tried that, it was horrible!, they worked against each other, a real train wreck, weeks of testing revealed someone can only use one version or the other through out a system, atleast that is what happened to my system any way..I do not believe at this point untill I do more auditioning that one would have to use the same wall plug's through out, just the wpo's. Audiolabyrinth, you're comparing apples and oranges. Chris correctly recommended the Furutech GTX-D(G) for solid state systems which are not overly warm. You are using a tube cd player as your source/pre and warmer, gold plated connectors (079s), so I am not surprised you prefered the GTX-D(R) in your system. If you ran a ss cd player & Oyaide P-004 connectors, it could well have been a different story. As for mixing Gold and Rhodium wpo's, obviously that works in Chris V's system, but I would personally not advocate mixing gold and rhodium hardware. 01-23-15: Audiolabyrinth
Chris was dead wrong about what his recommendation's were for my system, The Rhodium over and over again was the clear winner on my solid state amp and tube/solid state Hybred digital cd-player that run's direct to amplification, extrodinary transparent hugely I thought Chris V's advice was to go for Rhodium "on tubey sounding equipment, or tube amps or pre-amps, and gold on tube cd-players"? You're running tube preamp & warm sounding gold connectors, so his advice that Rhodium best suits that mix is correct. |
My words can sound quite hard, in the Netherlands I think we are a little harder. We prefer sarcastic humor.
I am a very honest person who hates inferior quality. Because these products are the ones who limit the better qaulity products. In 17 years I have seen and heard many times how low the endresult is of many people who bought audio. This alwaya had a very big influence on me as a person. That is why I want to do it differently. To create a better level in audio for every single person. More openness and honesty in the world of audio! |
My audio buddy did the Furutech GTX duplex outlet taste test. A Gold GTX in one outlet, the other was a Rhodium GTX outlet.
Most of all his gear is tubes, SS amps. The clear winner was the Rhodium plugs. He had on order 2 more GTX Gold plugs from the Cable Company, changed them to Rhodium. The Gold plugs messed up the bass a little , much preferred the Rhodium.
I'm very happy with the results from changing out all seven my R1's to the GTX duplex outlets in Rhodium . |
Jeb, i'm confused. Your friend did "the Furutech GTX duplex outlet taste test", but "The clear winner was the Rhodium plugs"? That just tells me your friend preferred FI-50M(R) connectors with a GTX-D wpo. That said, it's not surprising he preferred Rhodium to Gold given he has a mostly tube-based system.
In your system, i'm not surprised you prefer the GTD-D(R) given you have a vinyl front end & are already using Furutech Rhodium connectors. It's all a question of synergy. In general, the commentary on this forum about Furutech GTX-D and FI-50M hardware is heavily biased toward rhodium. If I were a lay person reading most of the commentary, I would assume the Rhodium version of the GTX-D and FI-50m sounds better in most cases than the gold version without stopping to ask how their amps, front end, cables, pc connectors & wpo influence the sound, and thus their preference. |
Hi Melbguy1, Chris told me on the phone before I did all these direct comparisons that the Gold version was suited for any kind of digital, even if it was a tube based machine,also, the krell sound's better with the Rhodium, however, I admitt, I do like the treble better with the gold wpo's, it's a trade off, everything else sound's alot better, litterally veils up-on veils were taken out of the sound, the way the Rhodium does vocal's and mid-range snare drum's, mid-range in general was the decideing factor for my choice, the most realistic vocal's I have ever heard, Melb, I really believe these wpo's have more to do with one's cable's than solid state or tube's, you know my amp in it's orginal state before I had it modded was kinda of a transparent dark sound, now it's extrodinary transparent with the GTX R and the modds, also, you may be very well correct about staying with the same wall plug as the wpo, the reason I believe you can mix the wall plugs, is because I have a mix currently to decent prevail, like I said, when I tried that on the wall power, it was an incredible disaster, it was worse than useing the $6.00 industrial 20 amp wpo I took out, and the $.50 house wpo combo, melb, as good as your speaker's are, transparent!, you likly done the correct move with the Gold, will add some balance that should be appealing. |
I have mentioned this before, when people use a different connector to get a more musical sound it is caused by the properties of the other tools. So they use a connector or other cable to create a more musical sound.
That is why when you are not aware of each property a tool owns you never will understand how the overall sound is made.
The reason that I test so much is to get known with all the properties of new tools. When you are aware of all the properties it is a lot easier to create the sound you want.
This is the main reason that I can outperform all my competitors. This way the endresult always will be better. As you know the best and most convincing sound alwys will win in audio. This is what make audio the most easiest! |
Audiolabyrinth, in your long discussions with Chris, did you mention you were using your tube cd player as linestage? That effectively means you're running a tube preamp and changes the equation. Btw, Chris's advice that the gold version is recommended for ss and tube cd players is echoe'd by other sellers such as The Tweek Geek. I'm having a hard time believing the Furutech GTX-D(R)removes "litterally veils up-on veils were taken out of the sound" compared to the GTX-D(G). Something else must be going on there since the base metal (pure copper) dominates the sound of the GTX-D. As Chris remarked, the slight lean towards warmth vs resolution in the gold vs rhodium (respectively) is more related to a slight 'shade' vs night/day difference. In the end, you're running a valve preamp so I am not surprised you preferred the rhodium version.
I have to wait until my Vitus SCD-025 arrives in a couple of months before I can see how the GTX-D(G) sounds in my system, then I will have to wait for atleast 250hrs for my new player and Jorma Statement cables to play in. But I suspect the combination of the Oyaide platinum & palladium-plated P-004 connectors, Jorma (copper) cables and Vitus amp and front end will have good synergy. (And I have to remember that only one pc will be connected to the GTX-D. All my other pc's will be plugged into my Gigawatt PC-3 SE Evo conditioner which uses in-house designed cryo'd and demaged silver-plated brass wpo's). If I feel i've got a good balance between neutrality, transparency, speed, warmth, naturalness & harmonic richness with the P-0004/GTX-D(G) combo, I will likely re-terminate all my Prime pc's with Oyaide M1/F1 hardware later in the year. |
